As someone who’s played melee 3 times in my life (the 3rd time was against mango at evo07 and he easily 5stocked me lol.) I’m curious to know why even keits agrees with itemless melee, were items in melee like super broken or something?
Also keits it’s funny you mention how you dislike the high technical barrier melee required because when I read that it reminded me of a post white shadow made a few months prior to brawl’s release. He basically said he enjoyed the game’s requirement to wavedash, shffl, l-cancel, and other stuff because it wasn’t just an artificial barrier those glitches deepened the mind games of high level play and were essential to know like parries in 3s.
FYI keits I’m not sure if I agree with the “30 other games do it better” but I do understand you meant that those games were designed to be played without items as that is clearly not the case for brawl so trying to mimic other games instead of embracing it’s own uniqueness to you is less optimal. I enjoy brawl with or without items equally and believe they’re both equally deep they just emphasis a different subset of skills like apples and oranges.
What bothers me is how smashers are so unwilling to even entertain the idea of items play while most items supporters like me have no problem with itemless brawl. At least there are alot less smashers saying “items r teh cheap” (on srk anyways) then before so that’s a good sign and EVO proved that items aren’t as powerful or broken as most smashers thought they were.
LOL @ youtube comments saying CPU item camped his way to victory. First of all CPU didn’t camp at all people must be blind and dead because he was actively engaging ken all 3 matches but even if he did item camp so what? Whatever helps you win isthe best tactic.
I don’t know about the doing it better part (especially 30 fighting games lol), but if that is your opinion so be it I don’t want to change the topic. You are used to the arcade mode where is already good right in front of you. Most console and PC games have to change A LOT of settings to make the game more competitive(Halo 2, Melee, Starcraft, etc). I do agree however that Smash 64 is not that good of a competitive game…it is way too darn simple and the broken game mechanics destroy any balance of move option so very little of the movesets in the game matter including sheild.
I bet if SRK spent more time on Melee they would like it more just like me speding more time on Street Fighter made me like it more. :woot:
I don’t know why this thread is still up. The arguement about items seems about as circular as Brawl vs Melee. Even though that isn’t the actual topic, that is all that is going to happen here.
Maps mostly. The default maps of starcraft are not that good. So the maps get built suited for competition and then are decided if they arethey fit for competition. Then once everyone has figured out what to do on the map for a while, they make new ones.
The only other thing I can think of is that speed is turned to fastest (like a regular arcade option >_>).
Oh. I don’t know if that’s really the same. Starcraft has a lot of different competitive options in various ways. People fought eachother in defense matches, as teams, etc on whatever map we wanted. I don’t recall anyone being really stingy about what map they fought on unless it was a money map (at which point, I don’t blame them).
Starcraft’s community actually seems a lot more open to the various ways you can play that game.
Are you talking about the American one? Cause like Starcraft tournies in Korea have some pre set maps that you have to do (no counterpicking maps only banning one map from pool). Or are we talking about friendlies? If that is the case than Starcraft might be more open to doing different things with that game, but doesn’t take away that they ban a whole lot of maps and make new maps every so often for tournies.
uhhh what???, I guess but the overall, game tournies are in default settings on certain non stupid maps.
However we do chill with custom games most of the time, well at least we did 2 years ago when I stopped playing, I will start hyping it again probably starting next summer and playing it again.
Check the SC thread for a look on what srk thinks about korean sc tournies, and like I said no player worth their salt takes mlg rules seriously be it here in the US or anywhere else.
Anyways getting back on topic I’m still unsure about whether I think assist trophies and pokeballs should be banned or not for now I think they should be left in though.
For anyone skeptical about items just try this out: all items except starman, curry, and recovery items and tell me what you come up with or better yet save the vids and upload them to youtube so you can validate your claims of broken/cheapness.
lol what? I have no claims. I just pointed out that PC games and Console games change rules to make a game more competitive all the time. I didn’t say anything else…oh and I did ask why Keits didn’t like Melee. D=
That I understand, since that’s how ladder matches worked, but this rotating tournament map creation thing I don’t remember happening at all. Especially with everyone and their mother playing Lost Temple (a default map, remember :P). I could be wrong because it’s been one long time since I had a playable Starcraft in front of me, but ladder matches required ladder maps and zero else O_o. I recall Lost Temple was actually popular enough to be turned INTO one, too.
World Cyber Games used to have halo 1(1v1) and halo 2 (2v2 with MLG’s rules) but that didn’t stick around too long(US won each year anyways).
Before MLG formed there was a series of Halo 1 tournaments, called 50k in Georgia… but the people who ran those joined up with MLG eventually.
AGP ran tournaments for Halo 1, but after their last tournament they ended up not paying players.
WSVG had a couple last year(Halo 2), but nothing too large in terms of entries(on average, well under half of MLG’s turnouts, but really solid payouts), and they used MLG’s rules.
EGL used MLG’s rules and I don’t think they paid anybody from their tournaments (although they hosted 5+?), most competitive players considered it a joke.
I can’t think of any serious competition for MLG (in terms of Halo) currently, and especially can’t think of any competing set of rules(even those listed above were MLG’s from late 2005).
(talk about off-topic :wonder:)Anyways… I didn’t mind items terribly at EVO (it’s just a different way to play, after all). The conclusion I’ve arrived at for (smash) tournaments is “your tournament, your rules”… so I think it was a shame that there were so many complaints. (trying something “different” isn’t always “bad”)
I hope there’s a bit more community-driven investigation into the rules for next year, because it seemed like the rules just appeared (Norfair banned originally, e.t.c.) without a terribly solid explanation for stage/item bans at the start. On top of that, when people tried to discuss how balanced an item was (mainly against specific items), there wasn’t really a “home base” to do so, and it seemed as a result, no argument was taken too seriously. It seemed to me that most were judged as attempts to get entirely itemless play at EVO for '07, and some probably were. (note: I don’t count the original rule discussion thread as a “home base” because it was mainly an “items vs. no items” play argument, and neither side really cared what the other said at the time)
Agreed. The rule set just came out of nowhere. It’s like what would happen if I randomly decided that we’re running 3rd Strike with some of the system direction stuff on, completely independant of anyone else’s input. No offense to Mr. Wizard or anyone else who made the initial rule set, but talking to some VERY good players first AND stating “we’re including items and most stages, start working with that” might’ve been a good idea. As it was, the rule set could’ve been ANYTHING. All Brawl, SWF-style Brawl, hell it coulda been Coin Brawl. Nothing was stated beforehand to go off of (and since SWF rules are the main Smash rules, why WOULDN’T people think it would go more toward that?). When it was announced that there was a custom stage as the starter and that the item/stage list changed nearly daily…well, yeah. Was pretty obvious things weren’t planned very well.
Here’s hoping next year’s Evo (if Brawl’s in it) has a much more thought-out rule set.
If you think the ruleset came out of nowhere you haven’t been paying attention to the brawl fourm here (or the evo ruleset thread on swf) in the MONTHS prior to evo.
I think most of the people in this thread can tell you exactly the opposite as far as me watching/discussing things in this forum. Regardless, I don’t recall a CUSTOM STAGE being in the discussion for Evo’s rules prior to Mr. Wizard’s announcement thread back then. I dunno, maybe you can dig that up?
So Mr.Wizard isn’t allowed to bring up a custom stage himself as an idea? As you can see from Evo2k8 the idea didn’t go through, so what exactly is your point?
I agree that some of the items turned off didn’t make much sense to me, but using that as an example of anything (the custom stage) isn’t proving any point.