Evo/Smash/Items Thread for people who WEREN'T at EVO

But the rest of the game should be, right Shari? Its sad that the consensus didnt become ‘we shouldnt ban ANYTHING’ this early in the game’s lifetime, but we all know thats now how it has happened.

Ye sure it’s not like you’re able to come up with any real arguments anyhow.

All you do is try to stifle the debate with stupid crap like “Only people that were there are allowed to comment” or “SWF ARE JUST LITTLE KIDS” etc.

I made a thread for people who were actually there to comment. Another thread was made for people like you. Never have i said “swf are just little kids”, in fact ive defended your community on numerous occasions to SF people in the past.

You, however, need a ban. Your trolling is getting out of hand. You want my arguement, idiot? Go read the 130 page thread about where we had these debates months ago. Its over now. The conclusion that everyone with half a brain has made is that both methods of play are viable, and its merely preference.

What conclusion have you made?

My conclusion: Anyone with an opinion different from yours is a troll.

It seems that way sometimes. Especially when his responses are all derogatory and condescending 95% of the time. Only room enough in this town for one troll, I guess.

Also wow they were really thinking about banning MK? Snake wasn’t also considered? I hope they’ve got their sled because that’s gonna be one slippery slope. People just need to realize that the game is ass balance wise and accept it.

And for the sake of staying on topic, whatever happened to live and let live? It’s been said 100 times, SWF crowd is GOING to play it their way, and 80% of SRK is GOING to play it their way. Neither side is going to change the others idea, and truthfully, trying to influence a game’s competitive scene which will more than likely die at some point in the relatively near future is just sort of pointless. SF4 / BlazeBlue / SF2HD etc etc will be the nail on the proverbial coffin, atleast as far as SRK goes.

Now that we know that Ken was actually in Africa because of Survivor it changes the arguments a little. Doesn’t really change the points of the arguments though.

People say Ken should have practiced with items more. Well, he couldn’t have. He was in Gabon.

It actually makes his second place finish all the more impressive.

But yeah, I haven’t seen the first set but in the second set he makes more than a few non-item related errors that could have made the difference. The most obvious was the suicide of his second stock on Skyworld. So I’d like to say that it wasn’t just the items IMO that caused his defeat. Although it was still an obvious factor.

Was he even in Africa at the time? Isn’t Gabon a reality show and filmed live?

Actually, why even bring it up, since it changes nothing? It actually has the potential to take the argument in a worse direction :(.

Nope, IIRC, he had gotten back within a week or two before Evo.

Survivor would probably be the most boring show ever if it were filmed live. As much as I can tell they film and edit the whole thing and then tape the reunion/results show live.

And why not bring it up? Was there something else more important that you wanted to discuss instead?

No, but it’s hardly relevant unless he was in Africa for nearly 4 months and there are people in this topic who would jump on it to take this argument further downhill :P.

That is, unless you just wanna talk about survivor. I’ve never seen it :.

How can I not sound derogatory when reply after reply from some of you fools continually condemns everything we enjoy, while I repeatedly mention my defense of your version of the game? Grow up.

I mean, even guys like SamuraiPanda are suddenly actually offering less biased discussion, meanwhile people like Shari continue to troll the thread with comparisons to SF bans that s/he knows nothing about in order to call everyone here a hypocrite .

I’ll say it again, the argument is over. Items on/off = better/worse/good/bad is totally subjective, and both versions are viable games and can be extremely competitive. I still enter tournaments for both. And thats a hell of a lot more than most of you smash-only players are willing to do for your one-and-only game.

Wait what? There are two relatively on going smash scenes and hell even smash 64 tournies at bigger events.

Not important but what is this one game business? There are three smash games. Maybe you should specify which smashers because other wise I don’t even know what you are talking about here. << >>

Both itemless brawl and items brawl. I thought it was pretty clear that this is a brawl thread, but i guess i should have been more specific.

for the record, again, i think melee and smash 64 are bad competitive games and i dont play them. i think itemless brawl is less optimal than items brawl, but i still enter because i know how to play and like to be supportive of the scene (no matter how little support it throws back to items play).

thats what you dont get tornado. im not trying to do anything TO them…

Like i said, im not doing this to them or for them. I just want iems brawl at SRK events, and as side tournies at swf events. Optimally, a situation like SB3, where both versions of brawl will be run as official tournaments.

I appreciate the support though, Tornado, and while your words have plenty of the same wisdom evo staff dropped on me, its just not in me to quit on something that is SO good because not a lot of people like it (or have even tried it). Look at how far josh and I have come with WHP as an example.

Now i just need to be persistant and hope some of SRKs non smash players were interested enough by evo-brawl finals to pick it up.

I am interested to know why you think Melee is a bad competitive game while itemless Brawl is at least ok?

I am actually seriously interested no flames. It’s hard to imagine someone saying itemless Brawl is better than itemless Melee.

Edit: your post also implied most smashers only play itemless brawl. like smashers couldn’t play all smash games tourney or SRk games or others. That seems pretty weird bias to me, but hey looking at the brawl boards would make me think all brawl players are dumb (glad I don’t play brawl for the most part).

I think that melee is bad competitive game because you had to turn most of the game off to make it work (and I agree that smash players did the right thing in that scenario). Its extremely lukcy that you ended up with a game that actually worked after all was said and done, but its not something I’d put my own time into.

Brawl, on the other hand, absolutely works with everything intact. Im not sure itemless brawl is better or worse than itemless melee, but I can play it because I play items-brawl. I also prefer it because the technical barrier for high-level play is not there, while in melee, you were basically forced to learn to l-cancel and shffl before you could begin to play the mind games and compete with people.

I did put a few months into melee, it just was not something I enjoyed in the slightest. I always defended the smash community when fellow Capcom/SNK/Namco/etc players were badmouthing it though, and I knew enough about what was going on at Evo2k7 to quiet some of the haters in the crowd on finals day.

Its just… I totally agree with Sirlin on his comments about choosing what to play. If you have to ban/turn-off so much of the game that its not even the same anymore, you are probably better off just playing a better made game for competition. In reguard to itemless-brawl trying to mimic the idea of “fair playing field character vs character no distractions” gameplay, I can name about 30 fighting games off the top of my head that do it better that I’d rather play. The items/stages are what make brawl unique and interesting, and worth playing to someone like me.

I can test my character vs your character any day in any game… but only in smash can I run that same test while trying to manipulate luck, control neutral objects and space, and keep myself aware of environmental hazards… all while adapting to unpredictable and ever changing situations. <3

…and this is why people <3 Keits.

Too bad he was playing with items on.

What a pointless comment. This isn’t ice skating where some French judges decide the winner. You play, the person who wins is better, period. It’s not up the community or judges to decide who is better, the whole point of tournaments is to identify the best player. That was CPU.

Knowing how to play the game is a pretty important skill. Probably the most important. And CPU was better at that skill than Ken.

It’s like saying that someone is the best in the world at Marvel if you turn off the super meter and assists. Who cares?

There’s an entire community who play with items off. So many of them, in fact, that it’s the NORMAL TOURNAMENT FORMAT FOR ANY SMASH GAME. So it’s not a pointless comment.

However, even ignoring the SWF standard, it’s actually a VERY valid comment. It shows what Ken and CPU should work on (Ken on items, CPU on killing at a percentage less than the current year). If you can’t deny that CPU needs some help with some of his game, then you’re as blind as they come, same as I would be if I denied that Ken played like an idiot when it came to attacking CPU’s ROB with FS activated. It cost him hundreds of dollars, and anyone who knows their ass from a hole in the ground could see that.

So go troll elsewhere. Some of us are trying to be civil.