I’ll take the bait: What would the community like to see in an SNK-centric online meeting place. Clearly, forums are needed. But what else would you like to see? I have several intense hobbies and I’m ready to give one of them up and this sounds like something I’d be interested in.
Well what about the people that go to Japan to play SSF4? It may be too far or whatever but as I say that’s what separates them from everyone else. As I said in the 13 thread, if you wanna be better than everyone else you gotta go that extra mile that everyone else doesn’t go!
Mezzo- I understand that, but people have to understand I been doing that for the past 5 years only to run into the same for the most part unappreciative, half-hearted, ungrateful, take advantage of you talk behind your backs all the time types of people. When you get stepped on all the time from people that are unappreciative of all the hard work you put in, it gets to the point where you tell people to help themselves first. I have a Masters in Educational Psychology and working on a PhD in it and the best advice I can give someone is that if they want someone else to help them they have to first help themselves.
It’s like collecting unemployment, you don’t get unemployment if you never held a certain job or certain qualifications. Same thing here I have determined my time is better spent with people who SERIOUSLY want to learn, I been breaking my back getting BURNT and stepped on by half assed people and that shit takes a toll on you when you run into the SAME LEVEL OF PLAY, people that just enter to pass the time, or people that don’t show up to tournaments etc etc, it’s like all your hard work to teach people is going in one ear and out the other.
So once again I am refocusing on the 3-5% in America that actually will show up to tournaments actually seriously want to get better (Like Erik/Dojo Destroyer) and the other people that I know I can make a difference with. So the same guy that taught all that stuff is here, I am just not gonna wear myself out typing up all this stuff all the time and it never get used/I never see any tangible benefits from the level of skill increase because of it etc etc.
I’d rather cater to the HUNGRY, DEVOTED people, be that here, Internationally, Mexico or wherever.
Meaning now I ain’t gonna kill myself for people that aren’t serious players, I’ve been burned by that wayyyyy too much, I try to help these people and I see some of the stuff Emil says like people rage quitting, or just dabbling and not helping at all, I’m really tired of that! If people want my help seriously they PM me ask me questions and I ALWAYS help them, hell I help A LOT of people on MSN, AIM, etc all the time and hell the main reason I post me vs. MightyMar videos for the most part is specifically to help people that may be close to his level.( And help MightyMar see his mistakes/learn)
So once again in summary- I’ve been burned in the past by people that weren’t willing to go the extra mile to learn, and quite frankly in KOF that’s what it is going to take to get good and especially these other games because the competition is elsewhere.
Even if that means saving up to make that trip 1-2x per year to Mexico etc, that is what is going to allow you to see the difference in desire that these people have for these games compared to a lot of what you see here.
So someone has to show me that they are SERIOUS about learning then I will be more than happy to help them like me taking Erik to Mexico he really wants to learn I PAID FOR THAT TICKET for him to fly out, but he REALLY wants to learn, so I am going to give him the learning he craves it will just be like going from Junior High/Middle School on a level of play to Graduate School working on your PhD In Mexico as far as the level of jump from skill…
Erik has shown his dedication going to the tournaments, something very very very very few on SRK have done, it’s more talking the talk saying they are gonna prove themselves and not walking the walk, Erik is proving himself even in the MidWest so I think it’s time I show him how serious I am to people like that by bringing him to Mexico…that may be International but it’s STILL helping out someone in the USA is it not?
I will continue to help people like Erik that SHOW THEY WANT TO BE HELPED and HELP THEMSELVES…not those that twiddle their thumbs, aren’t even willing to take small steps to help themselves like showing up to tournaments etc etc…
You gotta help yourself before someone else can help you.
Emil is right, people jump on the newer games but still wonder why they are behind the top players. The top players have the fundamentals that you new people don’t have, and that’s WHY you need to gain the fundamentals now before the game comes out because it will help you when the new one comes out. Even if that means you gotta play online do it, because you simply cannot play KOF like SF, people see that stuff on videos in other countries and laugh guys, the fundamentals are very very important, so if you aren’t willing to gain those fundamentals and just wanna start with the newer games for the most part you are gonna always be behind the tops in that game! That is the absolute truth you can’t take shortcuts in KOF!!! Experience AND Exposure hold A LOT of weight in KOF.
Now about MB being better than KOF, that’s subjective obviously…
Well but that’s why they are average. My Dad was a 1st Lieutenant in the Marines and trust me when I say this as a Marine Brat it’s a whole Mentality thing- “The few, the proud, the Marines.” Hell that mentality is why I am where I am today. Goes back to what I been saying, if you wanna be better than everyone else you gotta go above and beyond what everyone else does. You can’t think like everyone else, and you gotta work harder and smarter than everyone else. Is it gonna be easy? No, but remember those people that are taking shortcuts will not get very far in regards to overall skill especially on an international level.
Those sites people don’t tell you like Anakron said are in DIFFERENT COUNTRIES…they are BASED IN countries like Mexico and Asia, so once again guys they are in places where those games are supported as mainstream thus that’s why they have scenes…it goes back to the same thing guys I am telling you about!
Online helps it’s the truth and I recommend it plus anything people can get their hands on to learn the game. But as I said before online is not everything, there are some things that you simple have to experience in person, and until people start showing up in person we can’t hold ranbats and tournaments and all that other stuff when it will be the same 5-6 people that have always been showing up that will continue to show up. We will be spinning our wheels. Until many of you online players that dont go to tournaments start looking in the mirror and taking accountability for that we will always be spinning our wheels…
I agree 150% with this, people have to care about the games, so they need to find a game they care about to learn the fundamentals.
Fixed. And hands you a mirror.
New forum/site idea (strictly for competitive KOF/SNK) is fine. It actually does show that the KOF/SNK players who are serious, do care and want to be taken seriously. You know, the ones who want to level up, encourage people to join and participate, and share critical info.
But all this has been said numerous times (THANK YOU JEREMYH). If you don’t get the point now, then I dunno what to say.
This…
This…
I mean IRC (#SNKplaymore @ EFNET) is good and all. Good place to find competitive folks who PLAY KOF/SNK GAMES ONLINE. And in talking with some of the channel regulars, you may learn some useful information that’ll increase your skills/competitive edge too.
What that channel should ALSO DO, is to seriously encourage offline affairs. To put it bluntly, encourage people to leave the freakin house and bring KOF/SNK to casuals, on going tourneys/majors, and get others to get the “hands-on” in person experience. Pretty much everything I mentioned in the OP. I’m not gonna get into what’s usually talked about in the #SNKplaymore channel (cause I want people to develop their own opinion), I will say I’m not a big fan of it. But I when I do go in there, it’ll be strictly to play games now. And at times try to encourage what I already mentioned above (hopefully without ridicule).
I continue to ask myself, if we don’t start the support (offline support is critical) now and trying to encourage people to play games now (again “in person” i believe it’s received well by others, they are aware you mean “serious business”) …WTF are we gonna do when KOFXIII finally gets released?
Everyone talks about online…online. Sure online is good for practice at your convenience. But damn it does IT NOT MAKE EVERYONE EVEN MORE LAZY!!! This laziness is already what kills our scene in the first place. KOF 2002 Unlimited is ALREADY a gdlk fighting game. The very best that’s out right now (yeah I said it). But no one wants to get off their ass, bring it to casuals, tournaments, etc. AND GET PEOPLE TO PLAY!!! Start the fucking hype, NOW.
What are you gonna do if KOFXIII HAS SHITTY NETCODE? Just give up? I’m saying nothing is wrong with preparing for the worst possible situation, if you start NOW.
Good job, you guys…we been representing real well FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS as a whole. /sarcasim
Webster is right guys and it’s been said time and time again, hence the issue that me and my predecessors have had is not only the lack of appreciation for our hard work (which rightfully leads to quitting completely understand), the ungratefulness etc (whining and complaining but not doing anything), but also the same continuing trend of people just lazily sitting at home not coming out to play but yet trying to give us direction on what should be done to help the scene.
I’m gonna be honest but that does NOT make any sense to me whatsoever. Who would you rather listen to, someone that has actually done something for the scene has experience with that type of stuff (Like THE ANSWER, GIBY), or 97% of the people that have done absolutely NOTHING for the scene and have no experience, don’t travel to tournaments, whine about everything, whine about rules in tournaments THEY DON’T ENTER, whine about Japanese/Asian players and say we should be like them, and the list goes on and on.
Online is a training tool, and it’s good for building a community ONLINE, but you people STILL ain’t coming to play, and NO excuse you give other than simply not having the money is good enough because the competition is within your grasps even at Arcade Infinity it is at your grasps but some of you still with your noses in the air turn it down like “It’s not good enough.”
Trust me it’s good enough, and so is Mexico…
Building the community online isn’t doing much offline because you guys are just staying at home in your COMFORT ZONE, to which I equate to LAZINESS. Laziness gets you nowhere ESPECIALLY in KOF so as I said in the big scheme of things if you EVER EVER wanna hope to compete against other countries you gotta GET OFF YOUR ASS and start travelling, or mark my words in 2020 it’ll be me, Mr. KOF, Mr. KOF’s son JJ (John JR., LOL) RJJ/RJ the 2nd lol, Reynald Jr, Reynald, Dojo Destroyer will be hella solid at that time even waxing the MidWest for FREE from experience and constant trips to Mexico, and the SAME NAMES YOU SEE ALL THE TIME CARRYING THE SCENE…Mark my words…and it will BE YOU GUYS TO BLAME…FOR YOUR LAZINESS.
IN Mexico people play offline and ONLINE, they do both and thats why you have in many places A Changing of the Guard where the same people that ruled ain’t so hot anymore, with people like Khannibal retiring basically from KOF 2002 because the skill in Juarez being at such a high level and humbling him that he just chose to bow out and focus on other games. (This comes from Lecter even!!)
If you guys keep how you are there will never be a Changing of the Guard, it’ll be you lazy ass people playing online telling more to play online and tell them they dont need to go to tournaments, and us people going to tournaments representing and some of the same shit with people talking on chats behind backs saying they could’e done better but NEVER WALK THE WALK.
Or if they do walk the walk like Dojo Destroyer said they find out how decepting being good online transfers to being good offline…
If you are going to be that lazy then you should not have A RIGHT to demand or have any influence into what rules go into said games, your opinion does NOT count, and I said this before, because you won’t even be present! You don’t even exist!!!
SNKP America should hire a few of us for their marketing team or some shit.
No one is putting down playing offline. If I could I would. And money does matter. I work a part time job and work 3 days a week. If I was leaving on my own I would be screwed. Money matters. I’m not(and I’m sure others are in the boat) rolling cash ready to travel whenever. It’s not an excuse. It’s life. Those who don’t have the money to travel CAN’T. There is not another solution. I’m not hitch hiking across the US to Mexico and I’m not jumping into the ocean and illegally sneaking onto boats to get to Hong Kong.
We get reliable netcode with XIII, numbers will grow. Offline AND online. KOF XIII does well and I can find comp offline. I already got a guy on my PSN FL(Tooserious from SRK) that wants to play XIII. He’s telling me to go to tournies and I don’t because they’re not about games I actually want to get good in(SFIV). If the people I used to play GG with play KOF XIII and Tooserious and his people pick up KOFXIII the people playing around here will grow in number. But as for now, I’m stuck. In state travel I can do but not cross country. Especially not whenever I want.
Those online players are playing somewhere and hopefully some of them will be where I am. Because I do really want to play offline instead.
General question: How would you like to see SNKPUSA/Ignition help you with building a scene in the USA?
I understand and can completely empathize with your situation because I was there from 2001-2005. I was in college I had to get that degree so for four years I planned what I would do when I got a steady job and look where I am now doing what I always wanted to do.
What I am saying is it applies in general, not to everyone as everyone’s situation is different, but I do believe in you Hatred in due time you will be able to do what you want to do, you just gotta set your mind to it, plan it out, write it down, go to sleep about it, dream about it, and if you really want it in due time you will find a way to make it happen, it took me 4 years just to start travelling around the USA, took till 2006 to start travelling in Mexico, and as of next year I’ll be in Guatemala so look how long all of this has taken me, it’s taken time but good things come to those that wait…
Paranoid- Simple, More corporate sponsored tournaments, more KOFXII Nationals and other things like that, corporate support draws more attention…all it is to it.
-DG
You’ve acknowledged online as a training tool but I think you’re underestimating its importance in building stronger players. I already mentioned this, but for people who simply cannot find a local outlet to level up, online is the only way. As Hatred just mentioned, it is how it is. But if it’s good enough to become solid at their game and and be more prepared for the tourneys when they do appear in their cities or when they are able to fly out to the West, what’s wrong with that? Head-to-head experience is arguably the greatest teacher, yes, but for people who can’t have that you’re basically saying “Well, sucks for you.” Increasing American KoF activity on GGPO/PSN/XBL can only be a good thing.
Netcode is one of the biggest components in any MP game today. That and pretty graphics. If kids could just get a glimpse of KOFXIII (SNK doesn’t market their games for shit) and see the exciting stages, characters, and that the online works. They buy and tell their friends. (Repeat) As for people coming out to tournaments, the experienced player, need a reason to play this game. I want this game to be tournament worthy, and from what I’ve played (Like 10 games at AI) this game is. It’s really just up to us to hype this game in our own region. Shift their minds from Street Fighter.
It will be tough, but in my eyes this game will never grow to it’s full potential at tournaments with Capcom games coming out every year. We’re doomed to be a small number of players trying to get better at KOFXIII.
KOF MI had tv commercials, free hat promotion.
KOF XII had a tournament that gave an arcade machine, three front page features on Gametrailers, the biggest magazine and website coverage for an SNK game since the 90’s (go look at the KOFXII threads here, Neo-Gaf, H-V, etc - the threads have every single link, article about the games, and there were a fuckload of them… scans and dozens and dozens of links to news, features and previews about the game, places like Kotaku and 1UP even announced inidividual characters). Even websites that didn’t give a shit about 2D games reported on it. And dorks come and say SNK games haven’t had promotion since CVS1? Stop typing out of your ass.
By the way - nearly every online article had comments like “LOL SNES graphics”.
Open your eyes. SNK stopped trying because the games weren’t selling anymore - MS on DS was outselling the fighters. Ignition tried and they saw how nobody cared (or worse - cared only to bash the graphics), even with all the money they spent on advertising, making-of features (bet you didn’t even see those, you “fan”), series of interviews, multi-part coverage and podcasts… the game still sold worse than 90’s ports.
Also, NGBC’s netcode (the last SNK game on consoles) was good.
I am aware it’s good to build players, but many times some people just use online as reason NOT to go to tournaments and that is where it’s all wrong. People have to understand that if everyone thought like that then there would be NO tournament videos for people to talk about and you really wanna talk about no scene? No tournaments would really mean no scene.
So trust me I understand completely, but I am just saying that once people feel comfortable enough they need to step outside the online realm and take it to the offline realm, or as I say ten years later nothing will have changed, and there needs to be MORE LEADERS, less followers, more people taking initiative on things instead of just bandwagoning or waiting idly by, until that changes NOTHING will change…everything will stay the same 10 years from now.
The last sentence you said is another reason why I am refocusing my attention elsewhere, it’s like SSF4 in Mexico, sure you got a good 20-30 in tournaments for it, but it still even prettier than KOF 2002 will NEVER replace it in Mexico…it simply will not happen…
KOFXII, from what I know, had great advertising. I remember ignition doing more video trailers than it deserved. Sadly the game was a dud, online was horrible, game was unfinished. Even the best advertisements in the world won’t help if the product sucks. Especially in a niche market. But that’s the exception, because overall SNK never made a real effort to promote their games out of metal slug. And yes, their ports are horrible.
I surely appreciate everything DG and co. have done. Hell, I’m not even a KOF player and I appreciate it, as a fighting game fan. I don’t always agree with the way they do things but at least they make something happen. But you can’t run this backwards, thus why online is so important. You can’t bring tournaments and events to people who don’t want it or aren’t ready for it, people need to be self motivated to go to tournaments. For that they need to actually be able to play the game, and that’s what online is for. They need that reason to want to test their skills they acquired through online or casuals, with the big crowd. Because in general, not a whole lot of people have competition around them. And online, as good as it is, it’s quite limitative, and it’s nothing compared to real competition. That’s what made me participate in the SF community. Felt limited by the online competition, needed to level up, and meet people that were as passionate as me about this. Not everybody is like this, some people prefer online, but that’s OK. You can’t convert everybody to the tournament scene.
We don’t have the big names like Valle or Choi, etc helping SF4 just by doing their own things (actually playing the game). SNK doesn’t have the same history that SF has (Ever heard of SNK players that played FFS back in the days? Me neither.). Outside of Giby, Noc and co (who I can tell that they’re trying real hard to help promote KOFXIII), I don’t know a whole lot of people challenging the pros. Most SNK fans don’t even know about them, even though they’ve been around for quite a while, and are pretty damn good at those SNK games. So the SNK scene really has to start back at square one, like when SF2 started, or something like that.
Personally KOF XIII interests me a lot. But I also really liked KOFXII, and I would have put more time in it if I could actually play against people.
/end rant
Thats a good post Wolf…very good post…
that’s probably what’s happening to emil lately, hating on kof and complaining of the low level of ggpo players but then he refuses to travel and go to tournaments to take that step forward.
and I don’t blame him kof is just a game after all and he shouldn’t spend money and travel thousand of miles just to play a game?. He’s best to put that time and money to something more productive like his career,job?..yeah whatever
it’s good to hear mexico still plays street fighter I didn’t know that, and that other mexican who got 3th in meltyblood at evo that was a surprise.
in regard to kof xiii is good and all this new game is getting the people all fired up but in end it will be the same if you don’t practice. We have all the these resources now unlike before: youtube,ggpo,affordable sticks,guides,internet communities. yet we just whine and stay all freaking day posting in SRK and not practice.
not to say is really hard to improve, it requires alot of repetition and dedication some of us can’t handle let’s be honest. That’s why I still think arcades were a much better environment for these games, it was more fun at least and if something is fun you’ll continue playing as so improving.
Agreed, but I will say this much, at the same time if someone really wants to be the best they have to understand that online is simply not gonna cut it. There is simply tooooooooooooooooooo much in the world to see, and you won’t see all of it online, you gotta travel, and even if it’s once per year, like I said everyone, all the people you all glorify, the top players you see winning tournaments and some people dickride all the time it is NO SECRET why they are winning these tournaments, a MAJOR MAJOR part of their success is GUESS WHAT? TRAVEL!!!
I remember when the Triad was giving me problems in the KOF games, and I remember coming back from Mexico and then the very time I came back in 2008 it was like everyone but Cajunstrike and P-Soul were not even competition anymore! All this from simply going to Mexico!
I can only imagine at what level I am at now compared to back then, it’s like I say only the people from Mexico and AI can give me a challenge!!!
Every time to this day when I come back from Mexico in the games I played I AVERAGE getting 10x better, because I study the vids afterwards, come up with sooooooooooo many new ideas, and then I play people here in America like I do in Mexico and it is THEN that I realize how much I’ve improved, I then realize I have to tone it down like 98% of the time, I can’t play people here like I play in Mexico it seems farrr too much for them to comprehend all at once, and it is THEN that I realize how much improvement travelling does for me!! And if I am getting better incrementally 10x each trip, and you have some people maybe getting 2x better over a long period of time, it’s very easy to see why I prefer to spend my time with those that would push me, it gets to the point where it’s not even fun if I don’t have to work for victory, like I feel I can win tournaments at many of these places in the USA with RANDOM SELECT, and if I feel that way it’s best to not even GO to the tournament just spend my time elsewhere!
-DG
Look, it doesnt matter how much community building work we all do if SNKP fucks the dog again.
While XIII looks fantastic from top to bottom, we’re still many moons away from a home release. And, since XII sucked ass, and they shit the bed with XBLA version of 98UM, there are currently no viable KoF games on modern consoles. None. Nada. NGBC is the closest thing we got, and while its OK, it pales in comparison to 98UM/2k2UM/XI. OK Doesnt build hype.
Thus, I dont buy the whole “SNKP precieves that no-ne gives a shit because they’re not buying” meme. They’re not buying because they’re not making anything worth buying that the masses ever hear about. And lets face it, the UM series flew so far under the mainstream radar you could use them to develop cloaking technology.
Now, hopefully that will change soon with 2k2um on XBL, but SNKP again won’t help us build the hype by giving us even a FIRM FUCKING RELEASE DATE. Even if Micro$oft are being dickheads about it (and they likely are because…well its M$), the fact that the SNKP US website still quotes the release as “Spring 2010” is fucking retarded.
And, not releasing it on PSN at all is even more fucking retarded. And this is coming from a guy who doesn’t own a PS3 and who could ordinarily give 3 shits about PSN.
Sure, we all play 2k2UM on PS2, but getting new players to dust off their PS2s and import a limited-release game is just a hurdle that most people, who aren’t currently hardcore SNK fans, just won’t jump. And, in order to get into the KOF system, players pretty much do need to be able to play at will. Not just when their SNK fan-buddy is around.
And, meanwhile, capcom is cornering the market for 2D fighting. They did it with active involvement with the fan-base and, more importantly, making their games ACCESSABLE to the masses. Right now, its a pain in the ass to play a top SNK fighter, and even moreso to play against competition thats worth a shit. On the capcom side, the only top game that requires any level of hassle to play at all is 3S (and maybe CvS2 but CvS is dead and buried). SFIV/SSFIV/HDR/MvC2 have all been made accessable, functional and, gameplay system matters notwithstanding, user friendly.
Bottom Line: Even if we all do our part, it won’t make one lick of difference until SNKP does theirs. And while we can apply pressure and show support, its ultimately on the to decide wether they want KOF to continue or not.
Unfuck yourselves, SNKP, or sell the IP to someone who can before KOF becomes a footnote in gaming history.
Xavion that is an excellent post.
true. Wouldn’t it help a bit tho to have SNK go "there’s the site we should contact to help with US hype and whatnot. Arksys contacts Dustloop, Capcom has SRK, SNK has…?
Obviously a ton of it rides on SNK, but that doesn’t mean we can just sit back and have them fumble around like a blind man driving a bumper car.
Actually, I think capcom-unity is a much better example of this. Unity is a place where the devs and other Capcom employees interact with fans, both casual and Hardcore.
Where the do we go to interface with SNK personel?
Therein lies the problem. I highly doubt that SNK personel even look at SRK. Capcom, on the other hand, has S-kill, whose personal friends with Mr. Wizard here.
Do we have anyone in our midst who has personal contacts at any level of SNKP?
(I mean this seriously not snarkily BTW)