Gief is losing some health too supposedly. But with a faster Focus attack we have a chance for something… as long as reversal DP windows arent retarded anymore.
so buffs and nerfs were based on popular decision and not because the character needed it?
actually, i don’t think anyone figured out the method of capcom’s madness. for example, while everyone thinks sagat needed a nerf and rose needed a buff. i don’t think anyone would have thought gen needed a nerf.
i read that gen was reverted back to the alpha series. he has all his combos from back then or something like that. i dont know though. im just upset, im sure most of you are too. hes such a fun character to play but needs just a few buffs to be more competitive in high lvl play but from wat it seems, capcom decided to give us the shaft. but we all just have to wait to see
gen lost invincibility for ex wall dive, no more MK > Hands, and isnt getting any chains.
On Topic. Wait and see. Start turtling
I don’t think anyone can explain why Capcom is doing this random buffing/nerfing, but here is what Ono has to say about it (taken from teamxbox interview):
“I asked Ono what balance issues were a top priority for the team, and was surprised to hear there weren’t many changes made to the existing characters from SFIV. ?We didn’t feel the original game was particularly unbalanced. We liked the pyramid of gameplay we built last time around,? Ono said. ?This time around,? he continued, ?We wanted to focus on sanding down the rough edges where we found them.? When I asked about complaints around the competitive circuit that certain characters were more over-powered or otherwise a bit, well, broken (Seth and Abel were mentioned by some of the tournament players I talked to that Capcom had invited to the event), Ono maintained that he and the team did speak with tourney players fairly often, but that part of the point of the game was to have some characters that were more powerful than others. ?We want to maintain that ‘rock-paper-scissors’ dynamic.?”
Here is the link for the full interview: http://previews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/2528/Super-Street-Fighter-IV/p1/
I feel like its just a bunch of lame excuses if you ask me. If a character has a tool that is completely useless (like Gordita Sorbat for Fuerte), then the dev team messed up and they need to modify it to make it relevant, regardless of how powerful a character should be.
Oh well, let’s hope ultra 2 will be something really useful even in the long run. Fuerte has a great FA so he should benefit from a faster one as well. starts turtling
Yeah, that level 2 FA speed sounds amazing. But if the reports about SRKs losing some invulnerability are true (except on Ken’s fierce for whatever reason), does that mean Tostada is much better in those fights?
And yeah, if you saw those vids from those german guys, Ultra Spark just looks ridiculously fast. Like, “Wow, I feel dumb for trying to poke Fuerte” fast.
I just want to say that if you look at most Honda players on this forum, the majority (and mainly those that aren’t retarded) did NOT want EX Headbutt to have projectile invulnerability. I think everyone knows it would make him totally brainless. Honda without fear of projectile zoning is like Ryu without projectile zoning. Of course, now that Hakan looks totally fucking awesome I’m switching to Fuerte/Hakan instead of Honda/Fuerte.
amd how is it useless?. if you arent mixing this in with body splash your playing wrong
Gordita is useless man. Why do that when you can run stop slide or stop shower kick?
Edit for reasons: not enough active frames/length to make it meaty, too much recovery. No frame advantage due to slow normals. Crap priority. Also. Everything else has a purpose.
Tostada has great invincibility and knocks down.
Fajita knocks down is a grab, and is a lookalike for mixup.
Backdash off run baits
stop opens up rsf and rslf BOTH of these normals combo to super and run. Did we mention you can stop and do a myraid of moves and tricks?
Slide knocks down.
Gordita combos to super. That’s it. If it hits. It’s either super or hand your opponent the match’s momentum for free since everyone has better normals.
lolz your playing wrong if you are using it, dont get me wrong its not a completely useless move if people are just jumping away from you as you run at them then its ok other than that its like Densuo said there are many better options than sobat.
You mix Fajita and Tortilla with Tostada. You’re just giving up the guessing game since it’s so easily blocked or backdashed (more so than any of his other options).
Wait. El fuerte dynamite is 8 hits.
Each hit I’ll spell it out to wake up srk.
F
u
c
k
y-o-u
dynamite.
:D. I’m cooking with hot sauce now.
hands out chili to Densou 
And Gordita is horrible, no chance for debate. At least Fajita and Qbomb, even if limited in potential, can be used once in a while to help in the mixup and throw off opponents. But they also need fixing, becasue they are tools given to the luchador that don’t meet their full potential. Fajita is high risk low reward, that can never be very good. Qbomb is SLOW on startup and EX takes forever to charge, and it is very risky. I am sure Capcom initially made these moves thinking they will be great tools, since they won’t put effort in making something that they know will be useless or very limited. Now they are just lazy and don’t want to go back and fix them, so they throw out the “pyramid” argument to say that they wanted certain characters to be stronger than others. Other characters also have some relatively useless tools that need fixing…
I was thinking of something that could really help Fuerte without changing too much and not be very apparent without knowing attack data.
What if his specials did significantly more stun? As it is now, his mixup game isnt really too scary because there are lots of ways out of it and even if you do get hit a few times you aren’t taking too much damage. Lots of risk without much reward.
Change his his stun so getting caught in a mixup maybe 4 times leads to free RSF? Now that is scary.
Other characters need to fear Fuerte.
El Vanilla:
I bet CAPCOM thought that was supposed to Be Q-Bomb and Fajita Buster. But since Clamari Slide off run does more stun then Q-Bomb AND scores a knockdown WHILE not taking away a button, it’s clear why Q-bomb is not seen more often. It makes me laugh and wonder what Capcom would think if they actually looked at that Q-Bomb thread of ours
Same can be said for the EX Q-bomb. It does GREAT stun damage on counter hit. But when do we charge EX Q-bomb? In cases of extreme turtling, when we should be building meter with LK Guacamole, or during Flying Giga Buster which means the opponent is likely already near death anyway, so no need for Stun
If Fajita did more stun damage I would be fine with it’s crap damage.
Now… if he did more stun damage in general I’d be cool with it, as that would lead to dizzies, and free Tuants and RSFs His mixup would be that much more dangerous, and would make the opponent scared, because if they got tostada’d and fajita’d and Caramale’d and Tortilla’d they get scared and don’t wanna run in after they escape the mixup… they want to turtle, giving us a reason (and time) to actually charge Q-bomb and so on.
Something tells me we’re gonna have to wait… The frame/hit/stun data is already on eventhubs. maybe when SSF4 comes out we can check if anything got modified.
If Fuerte just got a big ass boost to overall stun damage dealing he’d be pretty mean.
Right, that’s why I added stupid in brackets, to make a distinction between real Honda players and the idiots looking for an easy way out of tough match ups that would ultimately end up ruining the character. And I think you’re right about Tostada Press being more useful against Ryu; if his DP now trades with Balrog’s meaty cr. jab, then I think we’re in business. Daigo thinks Fuerte vs. Ryu is 5 - 5 in SF4, so maybe the match up will be in Fuerte’s favour by a small degree in SSF4.
My combination of mains is Fuerte/Hakan haha, I’ll see you around the character boards come April.
i was asked to talk about his new ultra here, so here you go:
the facts:
- it’s an unblockable grab
- range is pretty close to half screen
- can jump out of it on reaction; is not 1 frame like gief 720 or akuma super raging demon
- has 3 frame startup
- since it’s a grab, cannot combo into it except off of a focus crumple (RSF into ultra doesnt work, shower kick into ultra doesnt work)
- leaves fuerte a lot of time for a mixup afterwards
the implications:
- if used, mainly gives fuerte a serious punisher on block. its 3 frame startup makes pretty much everything balrog has punishable by ultra, etc.
- gives fuerte a more serious threat of random ultra; if the opponent is sticking out a jab or short when the ultra activates, they eat it. this makes the new ultra more useful than the old one in matches where the old ultra is useless (rufus)
- you lose the threat of antiair ultra, particularly against opponents’ neutral and back jumps
what i dont know:
- how many invincibility frames the new ultra has; can it go through fireballs?
- how many active frames it has; can it be used as anti air, making the opponent land in it?
- combination of the two above points; can you counter-activate after an opponents’ ultra and hit? or do your invul frames run out/ active frames do not outlast the opponent ultra’s invul?
- does it give the opponent a ton of bar? it looks like a lot of hits
- is it fast enough to punish backdashes on reaction?
- does it reach blocked honda headbutts?
my own thoughts:
- the ultra you end up using is most likely going to be entirely dictated by the character matchup; with the old ultra prevailing in more matchups than the new one
- out of the old matchups, the new ultra will most likely be used against balrog, feilong, rose (for block punishment), rufus, cammy, ryu, abel (just for the threat of a random ultra)
- theoretical new matchups: juri for sure (fuerte needs something to punish pinwheel kicks and divekicks), dudley (fuerte is going to absolutely die to dud’s close up pressure without the threat of random ultra imo), ibuki (she can likely air kunai to avoid ultra1, a lot of her moves are punishable but not by close fierce), makoto (same reasons as ibuki, you’ll also probably want the threat of a random ultra)
- if the new ultra has enough invincibility and active frames, it will likely obsolete the old ultra in most matchups. i don’t think this is likely though; grabs generally don’t have a lot of active frames or invul past the first hitting frame
Thanks for the info/analysis Buktooth!
as for the “3 frame” number, i got that by testing the following:
- it was guaranteed after blocking a balrog jab dash straight (-3)
- it was not guaranteed after getting hit by a balrog jab dash straight (-2)
Thanks a lot Buktooth, really appreciate all the info 
I REALLY hope it can punish blocked Galactic Tornadoes and Headbutts, this will help a ton in what I think are his two toughest matchups. He will need it also in a lot of the new matchups, since most seem to have a way of getting out of ultra I. I just hope that he will end up having the majority of his matchups as 5-5, he is not too far from being there, which will land him a spot as solid mid tier.
EDIT: Galactic Tornado is -1 on block (and -2 for EX), so it doesn’t seem punishable at all.