or you can c.mk x2, and link the super, or with a lvl 3 do c.mk, c.lp, c.mk. Too many ways to land his super. j.rh, c.mk, c.fp xx rush takes off alot.
c.forward, s.fierce is a 1 frame link
c.forward, s.forward is a 2 frame link
both are VERY easy to do on counter hit/meaty (on reaction).
ie dash, low forward (counter hit), stand forward xx whatever…
just used eagle in a tourney i entered on saturday (i got 1st). i didn’t use him in the finals, but i did use him in practically all of my other matches and against a P-groover in the winners finals. here’s what i learned…
-eagle has the ability to really inflict some serious damage and “do his job” as a ratio 1 lead off character (how i play him). i played C-eagle/chun li/r2 sagat, and my eagle would almost always kill the other persons first character and take off about half their life of their second character. even if my eagle didn’t have much life left, people get impatient and try to kill your character off quickly by doing stupid shit. which leads to a bunch of RC lariats for jump-ins and counter hit crouching mk’s.
-eagle does well against P-groovers. if they jump, RC lariat. good luck parrying all 3 or 4 hits and then hitting eagle. start your B&B’s with crouching short because it hits low, and can only be parried low. i didn’t do that as much as i should’ve, but it’s all good. P-groove can’t roll through eagle’s laggy crouching rh and standing fierce, so you can throw them out a little more (not predictably though).
-eagle trades with vega a lot, and it’s almost always in eagle’s favor.
-when somebody’s raged in K-groove, they usually like to empty low jump into shorts xx super or empty low jump into tiger raid or something. so instead of doing a fierce RC lariat, i would just do a jab lariat. i’m sure sagat could kick me in the head xx tiger raid, but it worked.
-one funny thing that happened was when i was low on life in the corner against somebody’s raged K-cammy. they knocked me down, and did a level 3 reverse shaft breaker for chip as i got up. so i just RC lariated reversaled through that shit. everybody was like:confused:, and i was like 
.
was that necessary?:rolleyes:
of course it is nice man!
ya RC lariat against p-groove is great i haven’t seen anyone parry all hits and then counter attack.also throwing is extremely good against p-groovers who go a little crazy with parrying so hop over throw whiff throw and then go back to optimal range or try to throw again!
random tip of the day
when linking into eagle’s CC, do crouching jab x2, CC, crouching mP, continue CC (crouching mp because it comes out in 4 frames, and crouching mk comes out in 5). only let mp hit once and then do standing fierce x2, hcf mp, etc etc etc
ggpo
when you do eagle’s level 2 qcf + punch super, you can cancel it into hcf + mk at any time during the initial hits (but before the rapid fire hits occur) and it will still connect. useful to know because if you didn’t really need a whole level 2 super to kill someone, you can just cancel it into hcf + mk to kill them and start building meter before the next round.
and actively look for counter hit JABS (or just hitting jabs in general) also, because if you’re in C-groove, you can almost always connect a crouching mk into level 2. the range on eagle’s jab is almost as deceptive as his crouching mk. so people who try for stupid tick throws or rushing with cammy get hit by a max range crouching jab, crouching mk, level 2, and voila, almost half their life is gone.
TO GET THE BALL ROLLING AGAIN let’s talk about what eagle has a problem with…
- what do you guys do against K-groove? eagle’s B&B just gives too much meter to K-groovers, and his difficulty of dealing with low jumps makes you liable to be guard broken quicker or demands really good blocking (unless you can RC lariat everytime, which is tough). it kinda just makes sense to disregard ALL patterns where you would throw in standing fierce or crouching rh because that’s ggpo if they’re raged and JD either of those. but it’s habit most of the time…
one nice thing for AA is if they JD his crouching fierce, they usually bounce high enough to setup an RC lariat, which is nice and practically free damage because RC lariat is so difficult to JD.
- how should i approach shoto’s? their crossups are so deadly and properly placed RC fireballs are tough to retaliate against. RC hcf + rh is nice, but sometimes it’s not quick enough. what about the footsie game, how should that be played out? i don’t play against a single good shoto player, so i can only play theory fighter. anybody with experience in eagle vs shoto’s?
feel free to contribute guys, all eagle knowledge is appreciated (especially from the pro’s, apoc, arturo, roger williams, biggzy, josh pryor, etc etc etc, WHERE YOU AT?!:D)
Low jumps are no issue for Eagle, bro. Check your range and use st.strong or the mid-counter accordingly. Any closer and you can easily nail them on the way up with even a cr. fierce. I prefer a range where I can use the mid-counter but st.strong works but it also trades many times. Just watch for their feet to leave the ground and react immediately with cr.fierce and it will hit with the cancellable part. It’s merely a matter of preparation.
Also, at a range where they can short jump, jumping straight up keeps them honest and they won’t want to jump into you(for obvious reasons) and can only short jump upon your landing which is a perfect time to look for it and they won’t be able to get off anything.
I prefer low jump users because they can’t JD out of being hit and taking damage.
Also, I wouldn’t stick out fierce or low RH too often against K to begin with aside from a whiff-counter. If they jd, it’s a free hit or more. It’s not worth the guardcrush.
FBs are a liability for a shoto to use against Eagle. In fact, that’s where they take the most damage most often. I wouldn’t even bother RC through it. Just roll and combo away for free. From across the screen, it depends on their groove. If they can roll or have a super projectile, don’t knock it back. I RC jab spin through them when I know I can’t counter it and they can’t follow it in. Blocking one isn’t so bad since they feel safer throwing them which will lead to them taking damage. Same with Sagat. If the 2in1 doesn’t keep you in blockstun, they’re totally open so, try to roll even if you think you’re going to be in blockstun since there’s no downfall to it and there’s a big plus if you misgauged it just slightly. RC fireballs are no different since the invincibility is over by the time you can roll.
The footsie game is business as usual. Dance just outside the sweep range and bait them out with jabs/shorts & st.forward to counter. Walk deeper into them to bait a bad 2in1. Use low forward as your aggressive move when they are coming to you. This part is really all about reflexes. The question here would be: How can a shoto be aggressive towards Eagle? They’re very limited and have to rely on supers to do any real damage. That, and of course, the random roll, maybe a parry, etc. Shotos don’t have any reliable aggressiveness against Eagle. Even RC kicks with Ken fall to free punishment. Eagle’s speed and range on his normals are too good.
As for cross-ups. You have to be knocked down for them to be effective and that isn’t easy for them to do. If you get knocked down, delayed get up, jab RC spin and blocking are all effective against cross-ups.
Shotos aren’t a problem for Eagle. The scariest they can be is mixing up their wake-up game which requires a knock-down and some good gambles. Just pay close attention once they knock you down and get close.
If you have any specific issues, hit me up with them. I find Shotos mildly effective, at best, against Eagle. If Sagat didn’t do 75% with one combo, he’d be mediocre as well. Only his damage makes it competitive, imo.
Apoc.
I wouldnt say ken’s rc kicks fall to free punishment. If they are mixing up fireballs and kicks it is sometimes hard to punish. You dont know which one is coming out. All you know is that they RC something (they roll, and then they stand still right before the animation starts). By the time I can tell which one it is it’s pretty hard to punish it because how to punish it depends on what they do and the distance. Im not saying they can do them for free either, so dont misunderstand me, im just saying it’s not always a free punish.
Its possible that the speed im playing on is slightly higher though. Because I know it was higher at one point.
I’m just talking from experience. I’ve played plenty of Ken and it is a free counter for Eagle. There’s a clear difference. Ken never spreads his legs to do a funky kick like he does when he does a fireball. The start up animation is completely different so there’s no disguising it. I see the kick fly, Ken gets a stick in the face. You also have much more time to roll through a fireball. It makes no difference, for Eagle, if these moves are RCd or not.
I’d have to say that you’re playing at a different speed. There’s no disguising the moves and they look nothing alike so, it’s not as if you have to guess the counter at all. You see a kick, you counter(the counter depends on the range but they can’t even use it to charge unless they are fully across the screen where Eagle’s fierce can’t reach) and if his legs spread(the fireball is the only time that animation occurs) just roll and combo away.
Hit up the Vegas thread and ask. Danny’s been messing with Ken a bit. That’s really how it goes. You just gotta play Ken straight and avoid those things since they are a liability in the match.
Apoc.
the problem with using standing strong is that you will trade a great deal (and get beaten other times). if you’re playing a raged K-groover, the trade is DEFINITELY not in your favor and if it gets beat, eagle just got smoked. you’re not going to beat people clean with a standing strong very often in my experience.
mp counter leaves eagle at -10 if blocked. if the K-groover baits the counter and blocks it, some fast hitting supers (with reversal timing or not) will smoke eagle in his recovery. but mp counter is helpful because it sends them to the other end of the screen when it hits.
crouching fierce works, but you’ve gotta be fast and it’s very range dependent (as you said). i guess RC lariat is still the best option, just kinda tough to do on reaction to a fast low jump (vega, blanka, sagat, etc).
and i guess my main problem is against a raged K-groover short jumping. in that case, jumping up and down is pretty much suicide.
i don’t know why i didn’t think of just rolling through fireballs. and since eagle’s roll is so long distance wise and is 27 frames (shoto’s jab fireballs are 54 for ryu, and 57 for ken and akuma) long, it gives ample time to react and punish. i just have to look for the startup more i guess.
NEW QUESTIONS
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what method do you use for RC jab spins? do you double tap or negative edge? i’m having a difficult time learning them myself, any advice?
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i was under the impression that ken’s RC funky kick was one of the better RC’s in the game (it’s 32 total frames and only 17 of those are recovery frames) because of it’s overall speed. do you recommend not using it too much because it can be punished or to just use it sparingly?
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any help against guile? i asked previously but never got any help on it. he’s the last character i really feel unsure about in terms of place my eagle first on my team.
thanks for all the help apoc, it’s good to get some discussion going again.
Sorry bro, I completely disagree. I trade maybe 30-40% of the time on purpose(the purpose being to get them back where I want them). I NEVER get beaten cleanly EVER. Also, for them to be raged, I’m hoping that you’re damaging then because if you rage them through JD, you should already be supered. That means, to me, that you used the wrong normal.
I’m getting suspicious that it’s a matter of reaction time and you’re probably not getting it out fast enough. If you’re connecting with the first hit, you’re reacting too late. I’m also starting to believe that the reaction time is why the counters I use aren’t effective for everyone. I can’t do anything about that. Perhaps the short jumps are unexpected? In that case, just block, unless they cancel, they have no true advantage here aside from a blocked hit causing some guardcrush.
Anyway, it reminds me of A3 Charlie when ppl would want a perfect air defense and ppl would cite crouching strong and others would reply that they get hit out of it which clearly shows that they weren’t using it properly for the majority of time that they use it. This counter works easily from any range where the mid-counter and cr.fierce won’t work perfectly.
How are they blocking it if they attack? If they aren’t attacking from that range, why press the button at all? At that range, blocking it leaves you way too far for them to do much at all. Understand that, at this range you can see the attack extend before you do the move. Very simple. Perhaps you’re confused on the range?
Still, you’re more worried about the rage meter which tells me that you aren’t backing off enough and your defense, through avoidance, is the real problem. I play against P/K/S often in regards to my playtime. Check the Vegas thread and ask if it’s a reasonably effective means of attack against Eagle. Even Sagat with empty short jumps isn’t deceptive now. Either they attack or they don’t. How often do raged K groovers even get to attempt to short jump against you. Once or twice, at most, during a rage is reasonable. Otherwise, there are other issues in your game that’s allowing short jumps to be more than a minor issue. Just ask around. I have no reason to lie to you or give you bad advice. If these counters weren’t highly effective, anyone could use short jumping a lot against me when using Eagle. That doesn’t happen because they are the ones taking damage.
So far, I have to tell you to block if you can’t make these counters work after practicing with them. The mid-counter is one of my most effective short jump counters and I don’t get hit or supered out of it ever. Yep, I said “ever.” heheh
RC lariat, imo, is his worst option. If the jab one will hit, cr. fierce is better, imo. Strong and fierce are a liability anywhere near the corner since quick get up into super will nail his recovery. Use what works for you. There’s a bigger risk of error there as well.
I really believe it’s a matter of reaction time since I’ll nail Vega clean with cr.fierce like butter. Otherwise I’ll block it and they can’t cancel their recovery with anything but a flip so it won’t bother me to block it. I actually use far fierce against Blanka on the way up a lot. You have to be very fast for that one. Much fast than a cr. fierce on Vega. Still, the counters I gave you work the same on all of these characters.
Whew! I was starting to feel as if I were no help to you at all, heheh.
Personally, I use double tap and lift up my thumb as to not hit short again. I hold down the roll for strong and fierce(to avoid negative edge jab or short). The only advice I can give on the jab one is to bend your thumb as you roll and straighten it so that you don’t hit short again when you double tap.
It is a great RC. I only meant to say that it sucks against Eagle and I’ll put money on that, heheh. I say it depends on the match. I wouldn’t use it against any character that has fast long ranged attacks or supers like Vega’s pokes or Guile and Rog’s level 3s. In most matches, it’s awesome. It is very character dependant. When I first started facing Ken, I immediately checked the recovery of the RC and came to these conclusions and nothing’s changed since. Using it against moves like these is very risky and only hits when you guess that they’re going to poke into it. It’s very easy to counter poke in the ways I’ve stated. It seems that most don’t know this though. Even up close against Chun it can suck if not blocked. Whiffing leads to low strong-super etc. It is one of the best but, like anything, it’s not perfect at all. Which is good, right? heheh
I’ve played this match a lot and it’s a great match, imo. The great benefit I find, for Eagle, is when they RC sonic booms. When they are RCd, I can see it faster or it comes out slower. I can’t say for sure which. I’m able to jump and change momentum for free if they are RCd. You can actually jump and nail them on the recovery of the sonic boom with a slightly early jumping forward. It’s a counter so you get off a full combo. If you think you’re late, toss him or empty jump into cr.short,cr.jab, cr.fierce/forward-super. Otherwise, go with jump mk,st.mk-rush. Also, learn the recovery of the RC and the sonic boom and use cr.RH to trip him from the right range.
At the right range, done late, jumping strong counters cr.fierce(that would hit other jump ins) and you get a combo. Do this at a time when he won’t have enough time for st.strong.
Block his strings if you block a boom. Just take it unless you’re in C and can spare an AC(which I would do, heheh). Sometimes, blocking is the best option. This is assuming the Guile is good and has solid strings that you can’t super through.
This match is really good so I could go on and on and on, lol. If there are specific issues, hit me up and I’ll try and help. I can see this match from both sides. There are too many situations where both characters can react properly. This match, imo, comes down to which player plays it best. I’d try to get as much experience as you can in this match. It’s in neither characters favor, imo.
Sorry I couldn’t help on the short jump issue:( I tried.
Apoc.
greatest shit with Eagle…
knock opponent down…
walk right next to them, and right before they wake up, jump back with forward…
shit is so good its ridiculous.
from there, you can play hella mixup with hop…
Old news bro(years old…like first few weeks of release, heheh). Also, some characters can kill you if you do it so, know your match-ups.
It’s not SO good. Just good.
Nice to see folks contributing to the thread.
Apoc.
what speed do u play on? it seems like its slower so u can see them jump in.ST.Strong is not a good small jump anti air at all rc lariat is the best seeing it beats even empty small jumps which mp counter can’t.
and strider ya thats way old but if it makes u play eagle go ahead:lol: 
I play on arcade default. Tournament setting.
Also, as far as things that the mid-counter won’t hit? Like what? You mean things you’d need the jab counter for? At that range you use cr. fierce. If you use jab rc at the range that the mid-counter works and they don’t attack, you have no defense. They can empty short jump and combo you low whereas there’s a height at which no attack can fully extend so you let go before they fully land or just st.jab them. RC jab lariat is as range specific as anything since they can empty jump. I’m not saying that RC jab lariat isn’t dope. It’s just that you’re more prone to error as no one is 100% and if you roll on accident you get hurt really badly and the same goes for if the spin comes out without an RC. There’s no need to RC unless it’s on wake-up and what if you don’t have a roll in the groove you’re using or you use multiple grooves? The counters I listed aren’t groove specific.
But yeah, st. strong is dope for short jumps. If you’re not looking for them or if you aren’t fast enough, sure, try something else. To me, you’re just pressing a button the moment they leave the ground. Pretty fast. Saying it isn’t good at all is plain wrong. It’s a matter of using it properly or not, that’s all. I’ve commented on this before while playing. I haven’t seen any Eagle’s properly use this move yet either so, it’s probably because it’s used at the wrong range or the reaction is too slow. I stand by what I say. If it doesn’t work for you, sorry. Come to think of it, I don’t even see folks using it for AA. Eagle has so many that ppl use others. I use every AA he has. lol a decade later and ppl still would rather assume I don’t know what I’m talking about. lol.
Ya know, Rog players used to think jumping strong was better than jab on A3 until they saw jab properly used. Good players even. Some things you have to see to believe, I suppose, but again, I have no reason to steer yall in the wrong direction.
Hey Pop, this is another reason why I don’t post here too often. Instead of taking the info and figuring out how to apply it, ppl act like I don’t know what I’m talking about so, it seems like a waste of time.
Apoc.
with regards to eagle dealing with low jumps, i tested that out the same way i do with most things (considering i have no readily available competition)- i go into training mode and mess around. i picked K-sagat and did low jump rh and tried to AA with eagle. now this is actually pretty flawed considering i’m not emulating a real-time situation at all. most of the times where K-sagat would beat eagle’s standing mp clean was when i would do the rh WAY too early which wouldn’t allow me to follow it with a tiger raid. same thing with his foot barely reaching over the mp counters hitbox to kick eagle in the head. that’s a big reason why i’m always so inquisitive on ranges and timing because it’s tough for me to emulate that in training mode, so i just try to remember it for an in-match situation.
and i’m sure a great deal of my problem IS reaction time, because i haven’t tested it out against a real live raged rushing K-groover, because not many live around here, and the one guy who does play K-groove plays it very sporadically and scrubby.
THAT’S why i like to have the pro’s come in here and give their advice because they’ve actually experienced these matchups and used certain tactics that win matches. that’s why the first thing i do after i go to a tourney is come back in here and post what worked for me and what didn’t. you talk about how the match with guile is so even because you’ve played it so much where i could only speculate. your vs cammy tactics that you emailed me awhile back basically makes my friend not pick cammy vs eagle anymore because she’s gonna get smoked and her rushdown game is almost nothing if dissected properly. i can’t speak for twitch, but in no way, shape, or form was i saying your advice doesn’t work or isn’t good. i just quickly tested it out in training mode and jumped to conclusions, that’s all. please don’t be put off by what i said. i’ve seen more replies to this thread in the past day than i have for an entire month:).
here’s my biggest question about eagle- how should he deal with far jump-ins? that’s probably THE biggest weakness with eagle is his inability to deal with something like a far jumping rh with sagat. i’ve tried standing mp, but it’s pretty baitable and they can go low in your recovery. crouching fierce doesn’t cover the right range and RC lariat is risky because they can usually land and block first. and if i tried to jump at them with a medium, couldn’t C-sagat airblock and punish me since he’d reach the ground first and i’d lose my trip-guard? should i focus on dashing around more to not setup those situations or something else?
Sorry homie, I didn’t mean anyone in particular. Even I know it’s hard to see things in effect until tested or seen. I just meant that instead of saying that someone doesn’t get it or see how it works, I hear that it doesn’t work. Know what I mean? Like stated as fact instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt. Why would I lie or try to get ppl to do something stupid, ya know?
I’ll get to that Sagat thing in a bit. On the phone(no headset atm. Weak!)
Oh! You brought up counter jabs earlier. I don’t know if I mentioned that if you counter from far, you can land a st. fierce too. Hella funny! It’s situational in it’s practicality but if you see the move that you’re trying to counter come out as you jab, BOOM. heheh.
Apoc.
im not saying that im just saying in my experience don’t use St.Mp you trade alot
Popoblo, I’m not seeing the problem here. What is so effective about Sagat at that range? I would think that blocking it would put you right where you want to be. Maybe I’m not seeing what you’re saying? I’m think that’s a mid-counter range too. I need a clearer picture of the problem.
Twitch, I said that st.strong was a viable counter at ranges where the mid counter and cr. fierce weren’t as hot. You said:
Then you said:
Looks EXACTLY like you are directly contradicting me and also saying that rc lariat is the best AA against short jumps. I don’t mind your opinion but, you did say that I was wrong while also saying that you knew the best answer. I already noted that you’ll trade at times depending on how early they attack but it’s not like you’ll trade or get beaten even half of the time. You have to realize that trading isn’t automatically bad too. Although, it isn’t as strategic in other games. If you’re well ahead on damage, it’s great! They’re killing themselves by doing so and if they’re smart, they’ll realize that. Also, the point is also positioning. I don’t mind the trade if I keep them in the corner with their options limited. Sometimes, the st. strong is the best option entirely.
Anyway, I said that st. strong is good at its’ range. You said it wasn’t good AT ALL. How else would you take that? Heheh. Pretty straight forward isn’t it?
Apoc.
Low jumps are only as good as the person using the low jumps. The thing with low jumps is you have to know what they are trying to do in order to predict them. They can low jump and kick you right away, in which case you will trade if you do s.mp for the most part. I myself have not found s.mp to be a very good anti air either in terms of the frequency of use, but I have tested it and at the right time it will work. I just find it very hard to predict/react and use it and also in retrospect (after blocking the move) I dont often notice that s.mp would have been the best button to press. But it does happen (in my experience not very often). I cant really list all the situations that and which anti-air I use against low jumps… low jumps have a lot more mix up than normal jumps… and create high (low jump, super jump, normal jump)/low/jd bait poke strings… but I’ve used s.jab, s.mp, c.mp, c/s.fierce, jump up forward/strong, jump back forward/strong, rc lariat, high counter, mid counter, random activate (which either results in empty jump tiger raid, or me hitting them).
Against some people you will find you will use one button more than the other, especially people you play against all the time, because their “low jump setups” sometimes get repetetive… so the low jumps you spot and punish will be similar…
I dont understand how you can press a button as they leave the ground… almost any button will work as they leave the ground. This is more predicting a low jump than reacting to it?
Anyway, low jumps are mad situational… next topic