I’m going to shake the foundations of the 3s world, Makoto is not Q’s worst match-up. Although this is a terrible terrible match-up I would say that Oro is Q’s worst match-up. He dashes under Q’s dash punches and is fast enough that after one hit he can run away for the rest of the match. It is almost impossible for a Q player to catch a good Oro player and all while he is running away he can still build meter for say some chip damage or a set-up from either SAII or SAIII. I say that match-up, when the Oro is playing as dirty as he can, is just as bad as Akuma vs Zangeif in ST.
ryu’s worst match ups are chun/yun, just like it is for most other characters.
The Twelve vs. Chun matchup thing was a rumor from like the old 3rd Strike days. People saw Chikyuu running Chun players with Twelve and thought that Twelve had some crazy advantage over her because of her lack of super solid AA’s. Chun players understand the matchup better now and it’s clearly in Chun’s favor. You could argue that it’s only slightly in Chun’s favor due to Twelve’s ability to avoid her ground game pretty effectively.
Yet…it’s less difficult for Chun to bring Twelve to the ground than it is even for Hugo. Once she does she has a super that does near half life against him because of his poor defense. She can also stock two of those while Twelve has to work ALL DAY just to win.
Oro vs. Q is definitely not in Q’s favor at all but I still think Mak vs. Q is worse. I believe a couple of Q’s anti airs actually work against Oro (his jump ins aren’t necessarily the best to begin with) and Mak’s…has some of the best jumping attacks in the game. Which means Q can’t even stop Makoto if she decided to rush.
Q’s turtling game (which is what he’s strong at) works better against Oro than it does against Makoto. Not by a whole lot…but it’s not completely futile like it is against Makoto. The entire matchup of Q vs. Makoto is a complete guessing game. You can’t turtle cuz you’ll get grabbed to death and Makoto does a pretty good job shutting out anything offensive that Q has.
Oro can turtle and bust out Tengu and all that and that really sux for Q. Yet…generally…Oro’s game is not quite on the level of threatning that Makoto is. Makoto is threatning ALL the time while Oro is threatning as long as he is spacing himself well with a health advantage or has meter. The problem with fighting against Makoto is that the match can end pretty much anytime she wants it to. It’s up to Q to not get outguessed and pwnt. I don’t know any matchups in the game where Oro is more threatning than Makoto matchup wise. Oro is really the 2nd rate Makoto at best. Doesn’t necessarily have the same playing style but he has things that can guarantee matches like she can.
You’re kidding right? Mak is Remy’s worst match. That dyke laughs at the frenchie and he loses.
trollan gaemz
Seems like some here forgot to not factor in Chun or Yun. (The reason I did not include Ken is that I believe Ken has a hard time (or above average difficulty) with many characters besides the Yun/Chun, even if he can sit well with the top (Dudley and Necro come to mind). I think we all know that Yun/Chun are the best. If we consider them then the thread basically becomes a thread devoted to them, and discussions of them that are found many times over many other places (every character message board has a thread dedicated to said character vs Yun and said character vs Chun). Granted, some of the info asked here can be found elsewhere, but does not seem to be encapsulated into normal conceptions of the game or all-too-common knowledge.
That said, here is what I can gather from some posts and various views presented here on the worst matchups. Feel free to contest, although I think this would be a lot more productive if people listed general reasons why character X is character Y’s worst matchup. Note that worst matchup does not mean *BAD *matchup, just the worst, given that character’s strengths/weaknesses, minus Yun/Chun.
(?) means the matchup was just stated as the worst by someone but wasn’t really supported.
Ken -
Makoto - Elena, Yang(?)
Dudley - Ibuki(?), Akuma(?)
Yang -
Gouki -
Urien - Ibuki, Akuma
Ryu - Ken, Yang (?)
Oro - Elena
Ibuki -
Elena -
Necro - Dudley, Yang(?), Ken(?)
Alex - Akuma(?), Yang(?), Dudley
Remy - Yang (although this was disputed by Dagger_G)
Q - Makoto, Oro
Hugo - Akuma, Yang(?), Dudley(?)
Twelve -
Sean -
I added this to the opening post and will update it based on the posts that follow. Note I am sorta ignoring the Japanese tier chart because I think it reinforces some conceptions with a certain percieved authority that it may or may not possess. That, and I like to see explanations.
Thanks for all the posts though, they have been really informative.
well either way ill mention yun or chun anyways cuz its just good knowledge to know amongst us players…ill start giving explanations on the yang match ups vs other characters…hows about having a video to also explain these things…or is that too eh specific? (match video i mean like from a tournament, casual, or ranking battle)
here’s a question for any ibuki users…can someone PLZZ list or mention a bad match up for ibuki besides ken…for me it seems i have to work over the top with other characters in order to beat her…at least the only character (IMO) that seems to put her down would be yang (yun too but cant mention him) but thats only based on the ppl ive played like tenren, kenuran, and other random ppl
oh yeah just face it sean’s worst match up is against every character :-p possibly but idk
chun is obviously difficult for ibuki…sa1 makoto can be too, although that match is probably 5-5. yun gives her problems too, other than top3 she’s pretty good, just generally all the top 3 give her problems.
ken is not one of ryu’s worst match ups.
Gouki’s got the big three, Yang, Makoto, Ryu and Ibuki to deal with.
A few slashes from Yang and you’re done. Same for one shippu, Abare, genejin, etc.
Ibuki’s one of the few characters that can put Akuma on lockdown and Ryu is just way too strong.
I think Makoto’s the real bitch here though, rush+random=insta-fail.
i reackon it should be the other way round, i mean, i have trouble with him.
I read somewhere that the worst matchup for most characters is C-Royd.
But Chun Li still wins.
Not sure exactly what it is that makes Ryu a threat against Gouki (aside from SA2). Care to elaborate?
Yeah, I have no idea what he’s going on about there either. There’s nothing special about shippu unless he’s talking about denjin. Dudley is actually pretty bad for Akuma since he can punish RH hurricanes on block and 50-50 isn’t good when you take so much damage.
denjin isnt event that great on akuma either, he cant teleport out.
I think the matchup is pretty much even, having played it to excess… however…
one point in Ryu’s favor is risk vs. reward. Since Akuma’s BnB is not hit confirmable and whiffs on crouching Ryu anyway, Ryu has the life to spare to throw in a few parries on wake up or something. If he guesses wrong, it’s not too bad for him. A quarter of his life at worst. If he guesses correct, however, more than half of Akuma’s life is gone and Akuma is knocked down in the corner with Ryu on top of him, pressuring.
It’s just a risk you need to be conscious of, and know that it’s a risk that very much favors Ryu, therefore you need to use some other offensive strategies to get around it.
Yang’s definitely a problem, and from playing a fair amount against him, I can really feel the disadvantage, because rapid stun from slashes is game ending. However, Akuma does have a lot of tools to take care of Yang as well, so it’s not too bad.
Makoto - Akuma controls Makoto. 100% stun combo is no big deal. I really don’t think this is too much in Makoto’s favor.
Not that I have much Ibuki experience, but she always feels so helpless when Akuma is pressuring her. Even if she does her EX DP, Akuma can do a DP of his own and it hits her right back into the same situation… EVEN IF THE EX DP HIT HIM. Risk vs. reward is also very much in Akuma’s favor, so Ibuki has to be a little more careful.
With any matchup, Akuma is still a very strong, useful and versatile character. The tools he has and the damage he can deal out makes him able to stand up to any character, regardless of his low health and high stunability. He’s not a character that can be counterpicked.
Can’t agree with Dudley being bad for Akuma. I’d have to say Akuma is bad for Dudley. Dudley’s tall hitbox means Akuma is dealing big damage at every opportunity. It also means he has to step twice as fast to get passed air fireballs. Demon flip dive kicks stuff Dudley’s EX uppercuts, allowing Akuma to have a more deadly pressure game on Dudley. Just a few small things that I would say pushes the matchup a bit in Akuma’s favor.
I believe you are right, Yun is the hardest. The poster you quoted said that Necro have tools against Yuns divekicks, and that is true, but they aren’t nearly as efficient as the poster made it seem like. B.fierce and denpa is way to slow against unsuspected dives, you really have to know when the dive is coming for them to work. Magnetic Storm is good though, but once you’ve used it, Yun is free to go mash you up. Of course the SA1 works as a psychological tool as well, Yun isn’t going to dive you nearly as much when it’s stocked, but still…
And no, you can’t turtle against Yun, and when he gets you in the corner, which he has a million tools for all he need is a wrong guess (cross up/regular dive kick) and your health bar will cry. His speed and his tools is just alot for Necro to handle.
On a different notice, I wouldn’t rank Ken so high in the hard match ups. Perhaps it is a 7/3 anyway, but Yang is definetly a harder match up, a clear 7/3! One knock down, and God forbid in the corner, and Necro hasn’t really any options on the wake up. A good Yang is in your face all the time and he has not anything to really fear except SA1 when he is rushing you. Again Necro is too slow.
This is a really good post. More posts should be like this. It’s realistic, lacks theoretical bullshit, and is from the heart.
What? How is it not? JR and others hit confirm it all the time. If you can hit confirm SA1, this is a lot easier. You would just use RH hurricane instead anyway.
This is true, but in my experience if you get knocked down or he gets in close, you’re in serious trouble. Like almost as bad as Yang if they can hit confirm f. MK as well. You can’t throw air fireballs past mid-screen either unless you want to risk him ducking through it and SA3ing you, and it’s not like you can just dive kick willy-nilly around him. Nobody can punish a parried dive kick as hard as he can without meter.
I’m not saying it’s 7-3 or anything, but I think it’s tough for both sides, and Dudley’s got a lot more room to make mistakes. I know the Japanese disagree, but that’s my take on it.
Yeah…that’s what’s great about Ibuki. Outside of top 3 (even Ken isn’t terrible) she has no seriously bad matchups. She’s only 7-3 against Yun and Chun. Ken is still a much more fightable match than strong players of Yun and Chun. I’d say that she has trouble vs. characters like Yang, Oro and Mak but nothing overwhelming.
Akuma can be tough just because his rushdown and zoning abilities are even stronger than Ibuki. Luckily the match is even enough because of Akuma’s ridiculously low health and stun. Once you understand how to fight Akuma you just need to place your hits in the right place to take him off. Akuma’s hit box is slightly larger than Ryu’s or Ken’s which allows Ibuki to pressure him with more poke strings than vs. other characters. Akuma pretty much controls the air in the matchup but on the ground it’s pretty even since Ibuki has pokes that work pretty well against shoto’s. Ibuki only needs two real combos to even up the score. It takes a while to understand how to deal with Akuma’s tricks but once you do Ibuki has strong enough tools to fight against him.