Omitting Yun and Chun, what is each character’s worst matchup? I know some will be inclined to just say “Ken” now, but after watching this video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OaVAXtjw_wM) and reading the comments about Yang being Akuma’s worst matchup, I started to wonder about the other characters. Another example might be Makato’s supposed trouble with Remy. (Perhaps this has been asked before, but I couldn’t find it.)
I read through some of the posts here and here is what I can gather from the various views presented here on the worst matchups. Feel free to contest, although I think this would be a lot more productive if people listed general reasons why character X is character Y’s worst matchup. Note that worst matchup does not mean BAD matchup, just the worst, given that character’s strengths/weaknesses, minus Yun/Chun.
(?) means the matchup was just stated as the worst by someone but wasn’t really supported.
Ken -
Makoto - Elena, Yang(?)
Dudley - Ibuki(?), Akuma(?)
Yang -
Gouki -
Urien - Ibuki, Akuma
Ryu - Ken, Yang (?)
Oro - Elena
Ibuki -
Elena -
Necro - Dudley, Yang(?), Ken(?)
Alex - Akuma(?), Yang(?), Dudley
Remy - Yang (although this was disputed by Dagger_G)
Q - Makoto, Oro
Hugo - Akuma, Yang(?), Dudley(?)
Twelve -
Sean -
**Yun **- Ken
**Chun-Li **- Dudley
**Ken **- Makoto, Dudley
**Makoto **- Ken, Dudley
**Dudley **- Gouki
**Yang **- Makoto
**Gouki **- Yang
**Urien **- Ken, Makoto, Gouki, Ibuki
**Ryu **- Makoto, Yang
**Oro **- Elena
**Ibuki **- Ken, Makoto, Yang, Oro
**Elena **- Ken, Makoto, Dudley, Yang, Gouki Ibuki, Necro (there were a bunch of 4’s >.<)
**Necro **- Ken, Dudley, Yang
**Alex **- Ken, Makoto, Dudley, Oro
**Remy **- Ken, Makoto, Dudley, Yang, Elena
**Q **- Makoto
**Hugo **- Dudley
**Twelve **- Ken, Makoto
**Sean **- Ken, Makoto, Dudley
Now mind you, I do realize I’m just spitting out the absolute lowest for each character (minus the two unspeakables). I honestly don’t know enough about match-ups to contribute much more.
I call it his worst seeing as that every other match is in his advantage (according to the almighty chart, don’t hurt me). I just figured that list might serve as some sort of basis. I don’t wanna claim anything as absolute truth either though.
Well…from what I know…3rd Strike is more so one of those games where there’s a clear set of characters that “counter” everyone else. Yun technically counters a majority of the cast because there isn’t any character in the game matchup wise that has an advantage over him. The best anyone can do is even up vs. him. Which that character would be Chun. At least that’s what the Japanese think as of recent.
Some argue that Ken technically counters Yun but the matchup charts don’t really show that anymore (unless I didn’t look at them right). At best I would say the match is dead even. Ken has effective tools but he has nothing quite as threatning as Genei Jin. Nobody in the game does. Otherwise you’d see more Chun players run to Ken in high level events. Chun has a super that she can stock 2 times and even 1 combo into the super will take half of Yun’s life immediately. Dive kicks don’t necessarily kill her and her pokes are pretty solid at dealing with Genei pressure. Ken doesn’t have a 2 frame crouching jab to stop any break in Genei Jin pressure.
Yeah…don’t listen to the Youtube scrubs. It’s pretty much the same deal as listening to what some random guy on GameFAQs said. Even if Yang does have the advantage over Akuma…Yang is not his worst match. Akuma has very solid pokes vs. Yang and Yang’s only real advantage is how quickly EX slashes can put him away. That’s the only thing I can think of since EX slashes are what makes him threatning in the first place. Akuma can still zone the hell out of Yang from the air. Akuma has tools like air fireball and air hurricane to work against dive kicks. You still have to work your way in on Akuma and Akuma will run a train if Yang gets knocked down. He takes damage almost as fast as Akuma does so Yang can’t afford to make mistakes.
There are some characters that have effective tools over another character like Elena’s b+HK against Makoto. That doesn’t necessarily mean the matchup is instantly in Elena’s favor. Elena’s defense is still below average and if Makoto can get in…she will capitalize. Elena doesn’t have a low normal that confirms into super so that also makes her game less scary. Even if Makoto gets in a bad situation…getting hit in the foot doesn’t lead to crazy damage like vs. Chun.
**Most… of the counter matches in 3S are within the top tier of characters. Basically…Yun, Chun and Ken countering everyone else. ** There are no mid tier characters that have a statistical advantage over any of the top tier characters. Even the low tiers don’t have any way to counter anyone else. In some other fighting games there may be a matchup or two where a low tier character can counter a high tier based on the tools they have. In 3rd Strike…not really. They just don’t have the tools to act as complete counters. Or more so…parries lessen the tools they would have to compete in the first place.
Like Ibuki has an advantage in the matchup over Urien…but statistically Chun counters Urien even better than she does. Some characters do have match up advantages over each other in the mid tier range but…statistically you’re still better off using YCK.
Another example is Oro. Oro does pretty well against everyone else minus Yun. Then Chun…just happens to be the character that ruins his life. Nearly every move he has becomes unsafe versus her and his normal pokes that are effective against everyone else turn to crap against Chun. He can’t even jump in on her. Her c.MK (which isn’t necessarily designed as an AA) technically beats all of his air moves. In that it is angled where Oro simply can’t get a good solid hit on her with any of his air moves. If he whiffs an air move early on the way down…GG’s. It is literally one of the worst matches in the game that a non low tier character has vs. her.
Necro’s worst match-up is Chun’ by far. The Japanese listed Yun as 2-8 and Chun’ as 3-7, but if you play the match-up and you look at the win ratios. Necro players tend to lose a lot more often to a good Chun’. Necro’s got better escape tools than most of the cast against geneii jin, and he’s got a really good backdash/high jump that makes it easy to get away. He’s also got drills, SA1 and denpa for shutting down dive kicks.
Chun’ on the other hand, shuts down everything that Necro has, and he pretty much has the same issues with her that DevilJin mentioned with Oro. Drills get stuffed by b. FP and his command throw and long range normals put him in danger of eating a reversal SA2 (they get stuffed by b. FP anyway). Chun’s crouching hitbox is tiny too so it’s risky trying hook combos on her – especially since he needs to be well inside c. FK/s. RH range. Once Chun’ has meter, there’s really not much Necro can do in this match-up except cower and poke from max range with c. FK (it keeps him out of c. FK/kara-throw range and it’s safe). I do find that if you can get close, you can spam RH drills and Chun’ can’t do much about it, but if the other guy can parry/space well, that goes out the window too (EX legs might beat it as well).
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zXSjJfIfDYU - 4:30 - Uni VS Tokido is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. He takes out both Knit and Pyro-lee but gets raped by Tokido.
The truth is, everyone’s counter character is Chun-Li. Some characters have notable bad matchups from the upper mid tier, like Akuma vs Makoto or Yang, but Chun-Li’s pokes, long range throw and super counter do an even better job.
I’m pretty sure Makoto VS Q is Q’s worst matchup, though. Q has a lot of trouble getting around LK karakusa. He can jump out of it but he’s so slow that Makoto will recover before he can come back to the ground and hit her. His taunts also won’t help him with getting stunned.
Q VS Yun isn’t much better. He can’t really chase him very well, and he’s got like 0 response against dive kick pressure besides s. LP, which isn’t much of a deterrent. Kuroda VS KO at SBO 4 was brutal. I think he got perfected the first round and barely landed anything in the second.
Yeah…like Makoto vs. Q is the only match I can think of where a non top tier has the best matchup. Mainly because Makoto completely works against Q’s style of play. It doesn’t matter that Q can bring up his defense or has a big stun bar since he has nothing offensively scary to keep her away to begin with. He can’t sit in the corner like against a good bit of the cast since he’ll just get grabbed to death. I guess in this situation Yun and Makoto are just as bad. He’s 8-2 in the matchup charts against both of them. You just pick your way to kill him with either character.
Makoto is top tier as long as she’s guessing right. :lol:
just random note from experience…there’s something about elena’s throw that bugs me. the whole animation ends much quicker than most throws. usually taking throws automatically means you can slow down the pace of the game(look at justin/kuroda), but that just isn’t the case with her. add in her kara, and it looks entirely possible to lose to throws within a good 10-15 seconds if you tech roll. if you want to slow things down, don’t tech.
Yeah…tech rolling doesn’t always put you in a better position. Especially when you are in the corner. Tech rolling every time you get thrown while in the corner just means you have to play against the opponent’s mind games more often. Which will just set you up to get owned unless you know exactly what their next move will be.
I don’t think the Remy vs. Urien matchup is that bad. Like…it’s definitely annoying for Urien but Urien can turn the match around too quickly to make it super difficult. As long as you’re patient you’ll eventually find a way to get in with Urien. It’s not like he has a slow dash and a throw is all it takes to start running a train. You just have to understand that Remy controls the momentum in the match and you’ll have to find a way to guess around his fireball partitioning and all that. Urien can take a hit and Remy’s only way of confirming serious damage are all off moves that can be blocked or parried high and low. Unless he knocks you down you are never in serious trouble.
yeah exactly what i was thinking…ive seen RX do it in a few vids but he always has trouble in the beginning especially like at SBO5 this year…he had trouble with Take in the second round but brought it back as DJ said like “running a train” lol