Dragonball Z Tenkaichi 3

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
181

Well just to use that paticular video as an example… The step in after the first combo doesnt work. If you just regularly block, you block it. Cant block it any direction on back turned(to my knowledge at least)but you can parry the step in attack, and I also want to say you can teleport step in attacks as well hrmm… I forget though. I know the regular gaurd blocks it though. Then of course come the flying kicks. Flying kicks can be blocked by up gaurd… Then came the gut punch. Gut punch can be teleported, doenst matter if its not charged or not. You can teleport it.(easy to test even by yourself go to training mode and since gokus gut punch is his second or attack or whatever, just play with 2 controlers. Simple. its teleportable)Then came the up kick to get them in the air combo. Those are teleportable. Then goes into the air combo with a another gut punch again teleport. Hell those are more of the mix up anyway then to combo anyway to counter the opponent air combo counter or whatever.(up o o rwhatever)A lot of times though you can get out of those with out pressing anything though as they will miss in the first place shrug. Again more of a counter to the counter if you are starting with a gut punch shrug… And of course the final knock down is of course teleportable…

Lots of teleports in there. Like I said just about nothing is gaurtend in this game. Just matter of you being able to teleport shit. Although to say one thing that MIGHT not be teleportable, when your in a teleport battle with the big attacks, I dont think you can teleport if the opponent puts on a counter special. Normaly of course if a guy does a counter super special whatever the fuck there called, of course you can teleport them. But if your in a teleport battle and then the guy wastes a stock to do that, for some reason I dont think the game will let you teleport it in that case… But then again somethings are buggy with that. Or I could just be messing up the timeing.

182

More often than not the step in is usually guaranteed. It misses if and only if there’s too much delay from the last attack of the first chain to the first hit after the step in. Just watch youtube vids of people playing… more often than not, the attack following the step in lands.

And yeah, there’s way more not guaranteed than there is. You seem to be complaining about it a ton, to the point where it seems like you think it really detracts from the gameplay. Why do you think it does so? I like it because it encourages the player to do something different with his/her moves each and every time. Just about every character has ki cannon and/or rush ki wave so there are guaranteed combos for just about every character.

183

I can go and block the step in attack 100% of the time. With playing with 2 controlers at the same time. The onyl reason it hits is etheir if there back turned… or if someone is trying to teleport, or block high whatever that kinda thing. But as long as you hold gaurd. its blockable… Its a mix up. Obviously ill give you that(cuz thats all the game has is mix ups shrug), but its certainly not a true combo.

My problem with the game and when I played my friend is its to defensive.There has to be something gaurented. But your forced to basicly just tap the opponent the whole time over and over. Since you can teleport everything. Obivously counters are pretty shitty. even at this stage of the game certainly they are usuable to say, but the fact that you can now teleport counters is pretty stupid. Even those stock blast whatever counters arent gaurented. Its like why would you waste a stock for a teleport counter, that always hits at the same speed no matter what? So thus always the same time to teleport. And of course basicly the only thing you cant teleport is regular attacks, but you cant do that to much because, beacuse you get sonic swayed to easily. And not like thats paticuarly risky since it takes away the other guys super for whatever reason.

So yea your basicly forced doing small things over and over again just… I dunno… Just dum. It would be nice if there was something gaurtend. But even at this stage you just teleport everything in the whole game. And theres only so many moves so teleporting yadda yadda will only get easier. Obviously watching an online match is going to be deceptive since it does take timeing to teleport so lag will make it harder but whatever shrug. Plus another thing, im not sure if it was like that in the other game(maybe it was and im just being bitter about everything right now)but theres not even point of mashing out of anything anymore ethier since even when the o is flashing or whatever no point, cuz teleporting over rides everything. So gogeta, goku whoever throws you to rush, which think even a point blank thing like that would be gaurted damage, well you dont even have to mash cuz you just press o and it teleports you out of any sitution like that.

I dunno game is jsut a mess to me. Its fun for awhile, but it starts to get boring when you cant build much meter to do anything since your forced to use fireballs more in this game, since attack for long periods of bad time is a bad idea.

Anyway umm yea… Ahh… fun for awhile… But just to tappy tappy. And theres no reason to belive it will get better, since theres only so much in the game. Hell I wont even get into the parry, since i fucking suck at it. So I dunno how abusable that is to say. But teleporting is pretty ridiculous.

Your like always forced to put yourself in a bad position in this game it seems. You need meter to use fireballs(cuz you need somethign remotely safe), but its hard to build meter for the fireballs since you can only attack so much. You obvisouly cant little attack to much cuz you get sonic swayed, and you can only mix up so much before your teleported, and you realesticly counters to people arent viable always since you can teleport counters(which I still find bizare), and of course its exstremly easy to get put into teleport fights which take away meter. I dunno… The game is like dummed down beacuse theres so much crap that doesnt acctualy works. It acctualy like hurts the game I think.

184

Wow. this sucks. Alot. I was looking foward to this but damn. This really hurts the game for me. If this teleport thing holds true, then I seriously am not getting this game.

185

They’re actually going in the right direction with this game IMO. Before you could teleport out of everything with no drawback and now that’s only true for distance dodging like a kamehameha wave. When you teleport out of a combo or an opponent’s teleport it’ll take some bar away otherwise you’d have people just teleporting indefinitely. From what I’ve seen playing my friend with various characters Bebi Vegeta and Super Android 17 are the top tiers of the game. 17 doesn’t need to charge up and is the best android since he can also absorb virtually every ki wave outside of a few and Bebi V. has a one bar transformation that automatically restores his ki to max. I really like that they made the z counter #2 (up+[]) EXTREMELY strict to perform it’s probably harder than parrying in CVS2, I’ve played the cpu countless times in training and can barely do it 2 or 3 times, let alone be consistent with it.

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Dude your confused… Teleporting attacks does NOT take away meter. Ah… I think your confused… Only time teleporting takes away meter is when you attack to teleport, or if your in a teleport battle with those big attacks. And in that case it only takes WHAT you have. You can do that with out a bar. You just wont attack. Which in reality is better beacuse, you teleport behind the guy and dont do a big attack, thus they cant teleport and you can get a combo. Though of course if your a near a wall and this happens you often freeze till your hit again. But the teleport battles are pretty buggy in general(as I mentioned with the counter stock super whatever thing as well… then again acctualy you can even get frozen with out in teh corner… whatever anyway…)

anyway yea dude umm your confused, besides what I mentioned it does not take super to teleport stuff. And the teleport battles only takes what you have in the first place.

187

The key is that no one will teleport everything every time especially if they don’t have enough meter. I also don’t mind the lack of guaranteed damage(I dealt with it using goh in vf4 I can deal with it again). At least there is no low forward xx super. Always a plus in my book

188

Dude I just said the ONLY thing that takes meter to teleport is when you get into teleport battles, those HUGE attacks. Everything else counter attacks, counter supers, lasers, direction attacks, stun moves, kick up moves, EVERYTHING else does not take meter.

So meter is NOT a factor. And again even when it IS a factor. It isnt, cuz the game only takes what you have. You cant NOT teleport. The game will just take away all your meter. So if you have 1% meter, for a teleport battle instead of takeing that full 100% bar, it will only take 1% you will still teleport away though, and if the other guy has nothing as well then you just are away from each other or one guy is behind you.

Not sure whats so hard to understand. Meter is not a factor in teleporting. Its all a matter of timeing. Again obviously you can mix it up so timeing is different, but there are only so many moves in the game, and some of the strings like that fireball combo you cant even switch the timeing period for it, so it always has the same timeing if you try it.

189

Yea, kinda wondered about that. Never really experimented too much with it but I did notice that teleport battles take meter, just assumed other things as well. It still isn’t completely broken since z counter #2 takes NO meter and can be used in a teleport battle; Bloody Hard but I’ve done it a couple of times. That adds a little more complexity to the game IMO. Also, when I’m playing my friend he says he needs 2 stocks in order to be able to teleport since sometimes I get him in a combo and he doesn’t do anything. I’m gonna mess around to find out if it’s true since your saying in a combo that shouldn’t matter since he doesn’t need meter. I’m still pretty psyched about online play on the Wii, though.

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I think you can parry everything but lasers/fireballs(hrmm I wonder if you can parry a rush not sure). Seems to me, I know you can parry the push moves, and you can even parry the ground throws. I dont think theres really much you cant parry. Ive read that you can also parry a regular throw, but ive never done it so I cant say for sure. But if you can parry a ground throw I guess, dont see any reason you couldnt parry a throw I suppose shrug… Parry to me just seems like a “better” teleport that works against more stuff(well besides the lasers to say more or less), but its harder. Again though I suck at it myself though, so I cant really comment on it much shrug…

And I have no idea what your friend is talking about needing stocks to teleport, you can teleport with out them. Maybe hes thinking of after image teleport stock things whtaever? Ah… Though I dont see how you could get that confused.

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Only offensive teleports use meter unless thats changed here… anything defensive can be done for free.

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Whenever the computer does a step in attack, I rarely block it. I guess I’ll go try again.

And in any case, I was thinking the exact same thing when it came to teleports back in T2. I thought at highest level play, nobody would be scoring any combos aside from basic square.

But when you play against someone who’s gonna change the timing of charge attacks, throw them out differently, and even adjust how fast they naturally attack (something that never happens in fighting games), there’s way more pressure and it can be extremely difficult to predict a charge attack coming. The square charged attacks that are given no charge come out almost instantly. I’m not sure if you’ve actually played against someone good; in theory the game looks stupid because nothing is guaranteed, but when you play against someone that knows what they’re doing, good luck. In T2 I used specific cues of the characters suddenly changing stance to time my teleports, but it feels like the characters throw out the charge attacks so fast I literally have to predict when they’re thrown out.

I just find your argument really flawed because nobody has actually hit the level where they will teleport the very vast majority of charge attacks that are thrown out, and there’s no guarantee that anyone will. There are plenty of ways to trick and deceive your opponent with charge attacks. There are plenty of ways to use the engine to trick and deceive your enemy in general. Not to mention timing the teleports is very strict, and you can’t button mash the timing.

Also, the lack of guaranteed helps balance the game. If so much was guaranteed, characters with high attack power like SSJ4 Gogeta would completely dominate the game. It lowers the gap between the really high attack power characters and the lower attack power characters. I’ve also noticed that most of the characters with low attack power tend to have better B1s… like Grandpa Gohan having after image strike for 2 blast bars. A lack of guaranteedness separates this fighter from many others, but for the kinds of characters that are in the game, I think it ultimately works out in the end.

Very flawed argument at this point in time… most fighting games have high level gameplay that stretch far beyond what the creators intended, and that gameplay is only discovered through quite a bit of effort. T3 hasn’t even been out for a month…
Edit: All we’ve been doing is discussing the mechanics… we haven’t even looked at character strategies and match ups.

193

The teleport smash also changes the timing of teleporting. My little brothers try it on me all the time by starting a combo and then holding for a smash but teleporting which in turn changes the timing of when you should press “O”. There are various ways to keep an opponent from teleporting away; z counter #2 can parry everything outside of ki blasts and specials. Meaning ALL grabs, attack moves, and even z counter #2. So even if someone did teleport out of a smash attack and tried to get free damage with a basic [] rush, you can still avoid it with a z counter #2, where a teleport couldn’t be implemented since it isn’t a smash move. I’m starting to think some people really haven’t been playing or trying to play at a higher level and just assuming that teleporting is almost always guaranteed when you get really good, which is somewhat true but that doesn’t mean there aren’t ways to combat it.

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How is it a flawed argument to belive that people will get better at the game? WTF? That doenst even make sence. Also I dunno about you guys, certianly im not the cpu in terms of teleporting certain things. But I teleport a ton of shit. When me and my friend played niether of us could mount much offense for any sustained time what so ever cuz we just teleported everything, or sonic swayed it yadda yadda. Doing anything is dangerous in the game.

Also lets not bring up top players yadda yadda in the game. Cuz none of the games have top players. Certainly sprawlers or wahtever postsa bout the game a lot and he has put videos out. But helping the community etc. Doesnt mean your the best. The game does not, and has never had regular tournies so no one knows who is the best. Hell I was posting about the games way before everyone else. Who is the one that posted all the game crashing bugs in the first game? Etc etc? But no one posted about the game back then, so all my threads were lost to the sands of time… or… nothing ness I guess…

Also I dunno whats wrong wtih you guys, but again in that one sprawlers video I even said why the fuck woudl you not do vegettos beam sword rush. You cant block it in that game(since you can control them so it will always hit from behind… so power blocking whatever isnt a factor)doesnt take away super(so you use it till it hits basicly), and you get a free combo after it. So basicly you HAVE to teleport it. And you have to teleport it TWICE. cuz the game is dum like that. So your reason you didnt do it, was cuz you can teleport it. The move is damn near instant, and you have to teleport it twice. Its exstremly hard to avoid, and even if it is, you can do it again. But thats the reason you gave. So if you can teleport shit like that to thepoint where you dont even use it. How the fuck can you not teleport the stuff in this game. Again im not the cpu, but I teleport a ton of shit in this game. Again theres only so many moves that you can vary the timeing.

as for the gogeta again I already said your the only person ive seen him not put in top tier. Hes in his own tier every time ive ever browsed japanese BBS, and in this game seems him and broly are always in there top tier when talked about. So there ya go. So yea gogeta does dominate the game from what ive played and read.

anyway obviously certain characters might have match ups somewhat, but the general idea of the game is still there.

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That’s some pretty useful info., character wise I mean. I really haven’t had a chance to really try a lot of characters since I’m sticking with Bebi V. and Frieza. One of the main reasons I choose Bebi V. is cause of the bar gain after a transformation, my friend like I said chooses S. 17 and has a very annoying habit (but effective way) of keeping me from charging up. He’ll time the regular ki blasts (triangle) where I can’t really charge up and have the choice of trying to find a boulder to hide behind or deflect the things. I’ll give Gogeta and Vegetto a try next time. However, I kinda took that into consideration since some characters have a really good special but I’ll go straight back into thinking “how would I charge up for the special?”. Still will give 'em a try.

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You’re missing the point on the teleport aspect. Just because I say players won’t be teleporting more often as they get better, doesn’t mean their teleporting skills don’t improve… it just means the offense is getting better at playing mind games. Its really that simple. And you can fool around aton with the engine. This game (as well as T2) is all about manipulating the engine so your opponent can’t escape. If your opponent is teleporting to the point where you truly can’t go beyond a basic combo, then you probably should try to rethink your offense… there’s only such a small window to time teleports, and most characters give you plenty of time to charge an attack. Actually I think just about every character, once they start sparking, can still charge for a few seconds longer… and if you use a sideways attack (which is unblockable, as the sideways guarding directions have been removed), you can deal some devastating damage with your offense… just as long as you’re not predictable.

At least in T2, when my cousin and I played, we teleported stuff, but definitely not to the point where offense was just risky like you’re trying to say. We fooled around with the tempo of our attacks (cancels were around back then too…), threw charge attacks at varying times, made good use of unteleportable attacks (like the ki cannon) and threw out ki blasts. If the teleporting skills got better, we worked on our mind games… that simple. Have you actually made a great effort to mix up your offense? You’re basically saying that you and your friend teleport to the point where offense is dangerous (and not worth the risk) , but that’s definitely not the case with the cpu… The cpu teleports, but nowhere near as much (from my experiences and watching a bunch of vids) as you say. Compared to you and your friend, the cpu sounds like crap in teleporting, because they refuse to teleport quite a bit of moves…

Also, teleporting Vegeto’s beam rush super is nowhere near as hard as you say, and I’m surprised to hear it coming from you. If your timing and prediction are really that good, moves like Vegeto’s beam sword rush are a sinch to teleport. Timing the second teleport is easy too. And sometimes you have to teleport twice… its just the way the engine works. Sometimes the rush is still going when you make that first teleport, and you didn’t teleport to the side enough, so you have to time another.
And to be honest, if you could land these really high damaging B2s so easily, the game would… once again, be completely broken. Teleports solve this problem…

You say this as if there aren’t many moves that you van adjust the timing. But the moves that you can adjust the timing for are teleportable, which is quite a few attacks… Also, every character will have flying kicks and/or rush ki wave and/or ki cannon. Flying kicks aren’t guaranteed to land, true, but if you land the first hit of your flying kicks, you restart your combo, and you can do a ground slash to instantly guard break, as an up guard is really weak against ground slashing. Ki cannon is a really effective move, as is the rush ki wave.

Now, you bring up that SSJ4 Gogeta and Broly are top tier, and all you’re doing is claiming its true just because the Japanese say so. You’re not even explaining their reasoning… at all. I’m not sure, but to me, because all you’ve been doing was saying Gogeta is top because you read it on the Japanese boards, you’re leading me to think you believe SSJ4 Gogeta is top tier only because the Japanese say so… and I wouldn’t expect you to sink that low. Can you actually post what you’ve read? Nobody has ever managed to rebut my arguments for SSJ4 Gogeta not being a top tier character. SSJ4 Gogeta’s charge attacks charge up so quickly that if someone with good teleporting skills (to the point where offense is just dangerous) like you fights him, there’s no way Gogeta can win. He just isn’t flexible with charged attack timing.

You seriously don’t know that yet. It could be that certain match ups go completely against the general idea of the game… like that Grandpa Gohan vs SSJ4 Gogeta wifi match. The general idea of the game would be that they exchange hits in melee, and Gogeta might win if he manages to stay on a streak with racking up combos. But then Grandpa Gohan can use the black stock usage -1 item, and spam after image strike for only one bar… and after image strike has gotten a huge boost, and unless that Gogeta has abandonment essence, it’ll be hell to counter all those teleports. This match up goes way beyond what the general idea of the game is… which is basic comboing and throwing out charge attacks that you fool around with so they land and not get teleported.

For the game, I think of teleports as a double edged sword to the engine. It helps balance out the characters with really high attack power with the characters with really low attack power, and it just prevents people from racking up really damaging combos that break the game completely. It forces you to do something different each and every time you attack, which is nice. On the other hand, it can make offense really dangerous at times, which inhibits the award you get for actually landing the first hit. I side with the former, you’re with the latter… so we’ll be in a never ending argument at this rate. I’ve only been arguing with you because I want to see your side of the argument.

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Pretty well said, Spralwers. :slight_smile: I completely agree with you. I’m rather good at teleporting out of things but that doesn’t stop my friend from getting me in the back and mixing it up making it difficult to get out of it. Depending on how fast your able to mix it up with stuns it makes it harder to teleport not impossible but harder since every different move varies in timing enough to make it different. I’m also glad they made it where if you hit “O” before the actual timing it doesn’t work and then try the right timing in succession than it still won’t work, meaning you have to get it right the first time.lol I still haven’t had a chance to play again since I’m at work but I will definitely try Gogeta and Vegetto again to see how TOP they really are, Bebi V. and S. 17 are still the highest on my list from my experience.

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i dont think vegetto is top tier or ssj4 gogeta.

One thing i hate about vegetto is that his combo enders are horrible =(

199

I can’t find that item that reduces blast stock usage by 1 in the shop ><

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It seems clayton was correct about the japs belief of them being top tier. The top tiers in japan are.

God tiers

Ssj4 Gogeta
Lssj broly
Super vegetto
Super gogeta

Top tier

Arale
Freeza
Cell
Ssj4 goku
Late vegeta
Nova shenron
Syn/omega shenron
Super Buutenks
Majin vegeta
Kid Buu
Ultimate Gohan
Yamcha???

Of course they are really early to tell but these are the"Standing tiers" in japan.

However, there has been NO reasons given for why these characters are top tier ive been doing a good ammount of reading lately and im still reading now.