I think Arcsys overestimated how strong Beerus’ orbs would be and neutered his normals/neutral in anticipation of it.
If they buff his normals then I think Beerus would be in a good spot. His orbs can receive minor buffs but people saying stuff like it should beat super dash is just insane.
Beerus is almost worth it already just for his supers though. Guy just murders when you have meter to spend. They’d have to be very careful about buffing him or he could end up pretty ridiculous.
Some bugs throughout the SRK maintenance:
Movement (x-axis) glitch when reflecting A16’s 1-bar super in a certain way:
https://twitter.com/nameneko21/status/972091441190064129
Juggle bug when hit in a certain frame of the opponent’s knockdown animation via Goku Black’s air 236 H+S. Only videos that surfaced involved Majin Buu and Android 16:
https://twitter.com/kamoihito/status/972173546070843392
Mods throughout the SRK maintenance:
https://twitter.com/MisterGVer1/status/971865485997297664
Ishiwatari being an idiot:
Ishiwatari: “As much as we’re tired of hearing about GGPO”
It’s not so much that anyone is saying it should just black and white beat super dash, but the problem is that since super dash pretty much black/white beats the balls they are way less useful in neutral than they could be. They’re pretty much relegated to oki use which is crappy for how long they take to put on the screen. As opposed to say like Dr.Strange where once he gets his shit with agomotto on the screen you almost can’t fuck with him without picking a really good spot.
Just a lot of wasted potential that ends up with Beerus being a lesser version of other characters and not being able to control neutral with the balls in real meaningful ways. He pretty much embodies why people just play A.Gohan/Black/Cell type characters instead.
Pretty much
Well i think beerus has turned out pretty much like everything how I said it would really right? I mean thats the conundrum of the game right? What are you gonna do, have his balls not be flyable through or deflectable out of block? Thats why I said rather than a venom character, he could vary well go from being a sorta keep away character or someone just trying to be annoying. Because actually setting things up because of the way the game works well… theres actually rules that discourage it. As for his dp being invincible again it counts as a fireball so…
on the subject I think thats a big problem of the game, and shows just the general trend of how games are for fucking babies now a days. We have a game that is obnoxious as this sometimes with its seemly oppressive rush down if the opponent is not using a fireball if not for reflect. Because the idea of what a dragon punch in todays video game culture is stupid. How the fuck can you have a move be a DP that is not invincible frame one in a crazy game like this? Hell even in more simple games a dragon punch is supposed to go through moves. Thats what it does. Thats one of the core concepts of a fighting game.
The fact that we have so many moves in this game that do have potential invulnerability to things but are not actually frame one shows a sad and dangerous trend in video games. Think about it gohans assist dps arent even invincible frame one. Dont care about any argument or nonsense like well marvel 2 psylocke assist blah blah. Its a dp. Tough shit. Thats life. Thats what the move is supposed to do. Some things will be better than others. Thats life.
I think the game has lots of flaws personally. But that being said its still early and a lot of things ive talked about that exist still arent being used so will see.
Also seriously how do I get my old account back I tried messaging but no reply feels bad man.
Talk to Preppy to help get your account back if you haven’t already talked to him.
Yeah when it comes down to it there’s too many things that would be good that get blown up because they’re a projectile property that can just be super dashed through. Reflect is alright, but can only use it on the ground and does have some whiff frames. Super dash would already be good if it went in a few directions. Why super dash has to home in on the opponent I don’t really understand in a game where the most of the action happens on one area of the screen.
In general though it’s just a new fighting game philosophy developed in Japan where they figure people dont like zoning and things that push them away. DPs dont allow you to fight your opponent without really gauging your opponent and fireball zoning/trapping is lame and takes away from the action. Being that the game was very casual focused you add that with generic movement options that home in on the opponent and you get what the game mostly is.
Sonicfox vs GO1 FT10 should be interesting. Basically get to see what 2 top players with 2 different takes on the meta do when they go head to head. Sonicfox is mainly playing just to optimize damage and set play, while GO1 is taking more typical vs meta approach with 2 top characters and top neutral assist. A.Gohan having a real DP should help check Sonic’s offense and he plays characters that can get into Vegeta assist range much better than Chris’ team.
I think its almost a vibe of, well again I dont follow games much now a days so take this with a grain of salt as I dont even know what the fuck is a meme or not. But when I check twitter etc I see people talking about games and using phrases like “wait your turn” blah blah things like this.
I think this is a horrible analogy for games, because on a basic level your turn is the beginning of a match. You had your turn. You both had your turn when you decided who to pick and decided how to start the match.
This game in perhaps a sense is almost going with this sort of strange idea of “wait your turn” in that. We have at times oppressive offense. Things/ideas that if fighting games still at their vary basic core should not be as powerful as they might seem. But again we live in a day and age when DPs arent even allowed to be dps.
So we have the attacker using their “turn” I guess. But we now we also are playing a game where once the attackers turn is over, we dont have a traditional sorta thought process of this is a hard knock down, okizeme here, or air throwing a tech here. We have those sort of ideas I showed before of being able to purposely tech into attacks to make yourself invincable, and if a fireball purposely tech into homing dash and assist to reset the flow etc.
So in this situation traditional mindsets on a basic level dont exist. The defender is at too much of a advantage if you will.
Almost like this again seems like a meme to me of “wait your turn”. Well the game almost is trying to ALWAYS give the other person a turn.
Where in games before we play SF whatever, you are in the corner, you had your turn. Now you have to work your way out of it. Games evolve we have teching, etc… well the attacker can still guess to throw the tech whatever you want to call it. To anticipate how the defender is gonna get out.
I guess what im trying to say is this game feels kinda black and white in many situations. I know theres a idea that no one likes to die in one combo, to be in block stun the whole time. to lose a whole match to nothing. But you know if the community didnt complain about core concepts like things like DPs beat everything, and we didnt have to have bastardized versions of everything. It wouldnt matter.
Again just a sign of the times I guess, games are discouraging creativity and trying to have things be more standardized contrived etc.
I lost to a guy who did Freeza assist, superdash. On hit he’d get a combo, on block he’d either do 21’s jM or air backdash.
Couldnt adapt on the 3 matches we played, but this was like first guy with a neutral gameplan i played.
Also annoyed with folks doing vegeta or beam assist into hard tag. Maximizing health regen makes matches a pain. I need to up my damage or surrender to the Gohan/Goku rosa army.
Nah, just do more snap out combos
Well that means landing a hit. And short and more frequent combos from vanishes super dash iad etc dont do that much damage
Find a hard knockdown and go for oki. One small combo enables setup, then land a solid combo and burn as much meter as you can for a lot of damage. If they survive, which they will, punish the inevitable tag, do a snap combo and bring them back in.
Afaik you can’t punish those types of tag in neutral. Even if I try to super dash through vegeta assist (won’t work vs the beams) it’ll just clash with the incoming char.
You have assists of your own and you can get them out faster than their Vegeta assist since you have advantage after Supering their face in. Use them to cover you if you think they’re call Vegeta so Vegeta either doesn’t come out or gets caught by your assist.
Made a beerus vid for most practical to least practical combo. Beerus can get a little over 8k by himself and almost 9k with a dhc
I agree with much of what you said here. There are ALOT of things that I don’t really like much about newschool fighting game design that basically starts out with sf5. I feel like dbfz is sf5 but with assists and designed by arcsys (sf5 was designed by a gg player at that) the lack of oki is completely appalling in sf5. However, the “turn based” gameplay isn’t something I have much of a problem with, in fact, I think it’s one of the better design philosophies of the new era.
My biggest issue is actually the nerfing of tick throws in general, and the nerfing of normal moves to have such terrible range. So I really dislike that offense has become so cumbersome. In dbfz you have to like press 10 buttons in a blockstring then call an assist and then you get your mixup on your blocked assist. Normals that don’t have good range are also a huge problem. Takes much of he spacing out of the games. Nowadays most normals are stubby and/or have terrible hitboxes and recovery times. Gone are the days of ryu cr.mk,guile cr.mk and ST vega st.mk ridiculously good normals, that’s really REALLY upsetting. There are some design decisions in dbfz that I like though. But tbh the game is just kinda non rewarding to learn as far as neutral goes. Like it constantly forces you to go back to neutral which is fine and dandy, but then neutral is almost entirely just move rotation guessing so it isn’t enamoring in the slightest. Dash jump overshoots the hell out of your opponent making it not a great way of getting in from midrange. Idk. The biggest issue newschool games have for me is they make you constantly play neutral but give you ineffective tools to do that. The “neutral” seems to be all about setting up your neutral bypass moves and countering your opponents, rather than poking your opponents and controlling midrange space to setup your footsies and combos and defense. Unfortunately no game has yet come up with the perfect combo of great neutral gameplay, strong one or 2 off offense up close and turn based play on hit and block that can be extended with meter.
Some good Ginyu player. You guys might’ve seen this. He had the assissts down though. They weren’t that hard to pick up on how to use them.
Dash jump is used to go over fullscreen beams and is pretty damn good at that. If you wanna get in from mid range IAD>H or regular jump dash is your go to method from closing distance through the air. Or just dash up covered by an assist if you wanna get in from the ground.
I think the neutral is massively rewarding in this game, just because if you ever land a hit, the pressure after that is so insane that you can turn it into a single player game.
But the neutral you describe is probably something you’d find in SF2 or UNIEL, even though it’s kinda the same. You cover screen portion with projectiles and normals where you anticipate somebody moves in. I dunno what in DBFZ makes it more guesswork for you than in SF2 aside from the obvious fact that more of the screen is used and you actually have defensive options in the air.
The vast majority of players I’ve played tag at predictable timings, and even telegraph their tags on top of that, which means you can 2H them on reaction pretty easily.
I recommend watching Leffen analyzing the SonicFox vs ChrisG-matches, he points out a lot of cases where that happened during the set.
I know all that. Pretty sure I’ve explained it to you before so I’ll save the trouble of explaining it all again, but suffice it to say that I just wish that these games were designed with better overall pokes for the entire cast. Not better normals into confirms and etc, just better low risk low reward pokes that can be used to control space and limit opponent options. As it is, there aren’t really moves like that. All moves are either hitconfirms/blockstrings or they are neutral bypass moves. Very little in between, very little midrange game.
Vanish and assists mean there was never going to be much of an empty poking game in DBFZ, because you have a chance to confirm and convert off of almost anything if you read your hits well enough.
That’s fine though, because you’ve got 3 full health bars and blue regen to get through, game would bog down to shit if you had to SF2 your way through all that.
I don’t know where the bad normals talk comes from though. Most of the cast has buttons that cover half the screen, either with reach or forward movement. And the top tiers are a bucket of disjointed hit boxes and hyper armor.