I do agree about Drones not being a great assist for Dorm. Missiles is good, but Dorm can’t easily protect the assist like Morrigan can.
What do you think are Dorm’s best assists to counter his bad matchups? More importantly, his best assists that are also capable characters in their own right.
I consider Jam Session, Dark Harmonizer, DT Rapid Slash, Pendulum, and TK Trap (Dark Phoenix) his overall best assists. No one runs Dark Phoenix for her assists though. There are plenty of assists right below those that can be combined into strong team combinations.
I play Dorm missiles n ive seen others play with beam and drones so i’m just basing it off of common assist. I guess the 4th most common I see is Haggar assist. America does have super jump confirms or confirm off all 3 of his air shields you deff have to play on point and not get reckless.
So, Morrigan to be the “anti-random factor” against those horrible matchups that Dorm has, while giving him an assist that literally fuels him and either one of the Sparda brothers for god-like support? I do think Morrigan/Dormammu/Dante has potential to be really something.
I always though Disruptor would come in handy since instant teleport crossups are still good.
I play Morrigan/Dormammu/Dante as a theory team and it works pretty well. You can’t play Morrigan/Jam Session the same way as Morrigan/Hidden Missiles but the corner mixups are better IMO (Dark Hole excels in that department) and you can still work a great zoning game. Shadow Servant -> Stalking Flare DHC is mostly safe; same thing for Stalking Flare -> Devil Trigger. Dark Harmonizer speeds up the classic Dormammu spell flowchart greatly and Jam Session performs so much functions that you will not miss Hidden Missiles. Not to mention both of these assists allow Dorm to move freely since they are much harder to punish. The only problem is that no one has really mastered any of the Dorm TAC infinites; if that happens, I think this would be one of the most dominant zoning and anti-nut teams in the game.
Vergil/Dormammu/Dante is also a pretty good chip team for Vergil. With the right timing you can set up the Round Trip glitch blockstrings with Dark Hole and Jam Session/Weasel Shot. DT Rapid Slash is so good for Dorm if you can set up it properly.
Also Viper/Dormammu/Dante is a pretty good team. Burn Kick assist is fast and has an amazing GTFO hitbox. Dark Hole eats up projectiles and allows her to get in as well as setting up corner mixups. Everyone should know the synergy of Dorm/Dante and Viper/Dante already. Theoretically there should be a double-layer unblockable with FC and Burn Kick assist in the corner.
Magneto is still one of the best point batteries for Dormammu since he doesn’t need to spend meter to get in/confirm hits and he has great resets. EM Disruptor is just below the top five assists.
Taskmaster matchup is 5-5 or 6-4 in Dorm’s favor. Flame Carpet > Shield Skills. Now if the Dorm player does not know the matchup, Task wins easily. But in order to win the matchup, you have to use flame carpet a lot, stay on the ground to avoid shield skills below crossing you up, and build dat meter. Task has no option for Stalker Flare because it beats his arrows. Do not teleport too much because task’s air grab is godlike. Task does NOT have an instant overhead against dorm that I know of. I know it’s not 8H lol. Not to mention you can snipe him fairly easily if he tries any type of arrows. Just gotta have patience. If Task SJ’s, Pillar into Stalker Flare, gather spells and go to work.
How should I be dealing with Hawkeye / Missles? Should I just switch to my point character ? I feel like Hawkeyes zoning is too fast for Dorm to compete with
Charge up spells 1R2B, force Hawkeye to Gimlet you to burn his meter. You have to take some licks to get through. I don’t think there is a way to get in against that without taking a couple of Gimlets and missiles.
Assuming this thread hasn’t completely died
how the FUCK is this character supposed to fight Wolverine at the start of the match?!
Dis some ol BULLSHIT!
You don’t fight Wolverine in the classic sense of the word. At the beginning of the round your main goal is to impede his forward progress with a combination of Flame Carpet, Dark Hole L, and carefully timed assists. Wolverine has no direct answers to these as his neutral tools don’t allow to combat projectiles at all. Instead he wants to stop you from making decisions by either putting you in long periods of blockstun or being so aggressive that you fail to make good decisions at all. Whatever you do, don’t panic at the idea of getting mauled.
He can berserker slash straight through all of those moves and then combo you for free because of how fast berserker slash is and the massive startup on all those moves you mentioned. And that’s not considering the fact that he may have plasma beam. Further, he can easily dive kick you during the startup of any of those moves and get a free happy birthday if you call assists to help you out. There’s really nothing you can do if you don’t have lariat. Actually even then he can just throw you at the beginning of the match and x factor you for an easy win.
I love Dorm but it’s hard to think of a top tier that DOESN’T body him. It’s why I started pulling away from him. Dorm is practically free to all of Dante, Vergil, Wesker with beam/projectile assist and/or Strider, Viper, and Strider.
Yeah, I’m definitely not trying to rain on any parades, but the matchup seems retarded especially at the start of the round.
I’ve seen Berserker Slash go through just about everything. There were definitely times when I thought I was playing on a vanilla disc to be honest. The worst kind of Wolverine is the patient kind; properly and intelligently backed up, even just something like j.:s: can be a problem. The only times I’ve ever been able to win this matchup at the start is when I immediately get a throw and somehow manage to keep the ground and jump height planes locked down completely, which is not terribly easy to do considering the speed differential.
I’m not trying to say it’s unwinnable or anything, but it definitely does not seem even remotely close to a decent matchup, especially at the start of the round. Backing up at the round start isn’t a good idea because you’re inviting assist+Slash “mixups” and moving forward at the round start is dangerous because everything he has is faster and sometimes even has more reach than you. Very frustrating.
You cannot Berserker Slash through hitboxes anymore. He lost the invincibility on that move in Ultimate.
Obviously you have to use them preemptively. Wolverine is free to Flame Carpet unless he jumps. It’s one of the few decent options you have in this matchup.
You cannot combo anyone for free off Berserker Slash. Most of the time Wolverine cannot combo off it at all. He needs to juggle the body off an assist, XF cancel, or cancel into Berserker Charge.
If he has Plasma Beam, then pick an assist that deals with Plasma Beam. There are plenty of assists that make this matchup tolerable.
Dorm can cancel out Plasma Beam with st.M and st.H, and the latter will do a decent job at stuffing his jump-ins. He can cancel his normals into Flame Carpet on block, and that will be your primary tool in gaining frame advantage to get out.
You’re playing the character incorrectly if you think that. The only characters you named that actually have a 6-4 advantage or better are Vergil and Wesker (without assists). And that’s theory Vergil who uses Judgment Cut to end blockstrings and zone. He has decent matchups against most of the top-tier, people are just stubborn and refuse to learn the character correctly.
Wolverine is one of his worst matchups in the game, probably around 6-4 to 6.5-3.5 in Wolverine’s favor. Once he’s on top of you, you have to block and he can do fuzzy guard setups fairly easily due to Dorm’s tall frame. He can punish the startup of your specials (on whiff) more consistently than other characters as well. OS divekick is probably the worst thing of all as it forces you to stay grounded in many situations where you want to fly away.
For this matchup you can’t rely on your specials at all, so it will be very awkward if you’re used to strict zoning. You need to rely on triangle jump back j.L, standard blockstrings that cancel into Flame Carpet, j.S and j.H at minimum air dash height, and DM cancel into teleport. Your assists will largely determine how much risk you can take in trying to hit-confirm or doing zoning patterns.
EDIT: Almost forgot about spells. 1D2C is not very useful due to startup time. 0D2C can be used somewhat effectively as an anti-rushdown tool but loses precedence to 2D0C, which is +1 on block and goes half-screen. The best 3 spell combinations are 2D1C as a GTFO tool and 3D0C to catch him flinching. 2D1C is slightly better since it activates in 1 frame while 3D0C takes 15 frames to start.
It’s not that BS is invincible–it’s the speed and the cross up. BS takes advantage of Dorm’s number one issue–being slow as hell–by bypassing his specials before they even come out because of the blazing speed (for a special move) on BS. And when I say “free” combo I’m saying that because almost all Logan teams are going to have tatsu or plasma beam. He does get a free combo off of BS + one of those assists (that’s one of the reasons I use tatsu when I play him). And honestly, even if he does have to blow berserker charge to get the combo–he can easily get over 600K off of the berserker charge combo with no bar and then TAC you to make you guess and continue the combo. If he has 2 or more bars when he Berserker slashes you that’s essentially the end of Dorm. I can definitely relate to Yannick on his Vanilla comment. BS comes out so fast that in a lot of ways, you realize that Logan losing the invincibility on it isn’t as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I know that I’ve beaten out people’s supers just by relying on the speed of berserker slash–and I’ve had it happen to me too.
I’m not saying I’m some amazing player but I just don’t see how you can say that me citing Dante, Viper, and Vergil as raping Dorm is just me playing him incorrectly (especially the Sparda Dicks). I used to think it was just me, but even when you look at videos of high level players who use Dorm (the few that still do anyway) they get mauled by those characters unless they DHC in Dorm safely while those characters are in block stun and he gets a chance to cast spells. Even then Dante in particular can mix him up 24/7 with port + assist and stinger stops essentially everything that Dorm can do (flame carpet, holes, purification, even chaotic flame and stalking flare are all almost useless as long as Dante constantly ports and does stinger–which is basically all Dante players do anyway).
Do you have any vids of yourself playing against these characters? You seem to have a lot of faith in Dorm, and I’d love to be wrong about him because I like him a lot and it would be nice to be able to use him against the top tiers–but it just doesn’t seem feasible.
The other really annoying thing about him is he doesn’t really fit perfectly onto any team. You basically either have to choose between giving him the assists that he needs, or putting him on a team with actual synergy–in which case he’ s lacking the proper assists to survive against characters like Dante, Vergil, Nova, Logan etc.
I get it, Berserker Slash is fast. That’s why you use set ups where he gets punished for doing it mindlessly. Wolverine vs Dorm is a bad matchup and I wouldn’t play it if I had the choice. But eventually I had to test out teams to deal with Wolverine-centric teams and it got much easier once I knew my goals. I settled on Trish (Peekaboo)/Dorm (Dark Hole)/Dante (Crystal/Weasel Shot) as my anti-Wolverine team and never looked back.
There are almost no examples of high level players who use Dormammu correctly besides Filipino Champ. He had significant problems adjusting his expectations of the character due to his stubbornness in pursuing a pure keepaway style. It took him over a year to exploit DM teleport cancel in conjunction with EM Disruptor, more than six months to stop doing blockstrings that end in launcher, even longer to do blockstrings that end in FC, and only now is he doing st.L, cr.L, st.H, Dark Matter xx Dark Hole frametraps. Most of this knowledge existed at the beginning of Ultimate too.
You act as if Dormammu is uniquely weak to teleport mixups starting with Stinger. For the most part everyone is forced to block it. However, Dormammu can do the exact same thing to Dante except even better (he can stagger his teleport mixup twice with call beam assist + Dark Matter -> cancel into teleport; in addition, Dorm’s tracking teleport has three different locations so he can do fake crossups too). Most of Dante’s zoning tools simply don’t work in this matchup: Drive, Hysterics, Sky Dance, Crystal, Tempest, and Acid Rain are all irrelevant. Dante is pigeon-holed into using Stinger, cr.M, j.M, Hammer, and Weasel Shot xx teleport mixups for a close-range game. DT Dante is where the matchup significantly shifts in his favor and for the most part you’ll have to play defense. It’s 5-5 until that point.
Vergil operates differently as he can play a decent zoning game with Judgment Cut and most of his crouching normals beat out Dorm’s. Vergil players play this matchup wrong since they are accustomed to thinking about their character in terms of strict rushdown. They do raw Helm Breaker and unsafe blockstrings -> Round Trip and get punished. With a decent meaty assist like Bolts/Dark Hole behind him Vergil can maintain mid-screen spacing and chip him out. This matchup will probably get worse once legitimately good Vergil players start playing the character properly on point.
C. Viper matchup is pretty assist-dependent. It’s still roughly 6-4 in her favor. You have to do a lot of running in this matchup.
From what I’ve seen, success with Dormammu is based on research and decision-making. You have to play him differently depending on the opponent but he has so many tools that even his worse matchups are winnable once you understand why it’s bad and compensate for it. Most players who lose with him lose for specific reasons that are not tied to the character’s weakness: they play him incorrectly, they don’t maximize combos, they make bad decisions. And that’s encouraging. It shows the character’s skill ceiling is high and it’s only limited by the effort of the player. Wolverine is good right now but his toolset is very limited and you can coast by on fundamentals with him. That won’t cut it later on in the lifetime of this game.
No, I don’t have any recording equipment unfortunately. >_>
The matchups look roughly like this IMO (with no spells):
Zero: 4.5-5.5
Morrigan: 5.5-4.5
Vergil: 4-6 (probably will go to 3.5-6.5 in the future)
C. Viper: 4-6
Magneto: 5-5
Dante: 5-5
Doom: 6.5-3.5
Strider: 4.5-5.5
Nova: 5-5
Firebrand: 6-4
Spencer: 4-6
Wolverine: 3.5-6.5
Wesker: 4-6
Viewtful Joe: 6-4
MODOK: 6-4
Most of his bad matchups become significantly less awful, even, or advantageous once you build the proper spells and don’t waste them on mindless flowcharting. Some of them will also get better once Dorm players master the use of his ADDF/ADDB plink dash.
Good Dorm teams need to have a strong secondary shell in case the point character dies, Dorm gets snapped in, or the anchor gets snapped in. It sounds hard in theory but it’s relatively easy to construct. Off the top of my head I know the Sparda Brothers, Strange, Doom, Haggar, MODOK, Morrigan, Taskmaster, Trish, Magneto, Super-Skrull, Iron Man, Shuma Gorath, and Akuma are all good teammates for him.
Let’s talk about the Spencer matchup. I would think this is mostly a routine wait-and-bait for Dormammu. Spencer’s usual MO, which is either Hawkeye, Taskmaster, or Iron Man assist gets handled on recation by Dormammu pretty effectively and maybe Spencer can force some air techs or corner tech roll situations and set up really ugly crossups or command grabs, but I can’t imagine this being too dominant of a match for Spencer.
Zero seems like a mostly losing match, but there are things Dormammu can do. Vergil, however, does not seem kosher. Like, at all.
My personal opinion is that Spencer isn’t that bad of a match up for Dorm depending on whether you have meter and/or spells charged. Bionic arm actually isn’t that useful because Chaotic flame will win in a trade as long as you don’t use it at point blank range. I think that stalking flare will always win if you are at least able to get past the long startup.
Beyond that the reason why I don’t think it’s that bad is because he doesn’t have absurd normals (Dorm’s biggest weakness–as a result of the massive startup on his moves). Don’t get me wrong, if the Spencer player is smart and is protecting his blockstrings with an assist it can be tough for Dorm. But constant movement on your part can keep that in check. If you get the time to cast spells and you keep him at mid or fullscreen distance he can’t do a whole lot to you.
Ironically enough, I feel like Dorm is one of the only characters with a good match up against Zero…IF you can find a way to get him midscreen distance or further and you have spells charged (and especially if you have meter). You need the spells to prevent level 3 buster from knocking you out of the startup on dark hole and purifications. If you have it you can essentially cast 2C 1D to get him in blockstun and then go wild on his ass. This is REALLY rough on him because of 1. his low health 2. general issues with zoning and 3. his heavy reliance on airdashing–where he can’t block and where purifications, spells, stalking flare, and well timed chaotic flames maul him.
On the other hand if he ever gets in on you you might as well put the controller down. If he gets 3 bars you’re in trouble as well if you don’t teleport a lot.
You’re not beating a competent Vergil and you probably aren’t beating a bad one if he has meter.
im gonna have to say that dante, zero, vergil, spencer, wesker, nova, are dorms worst match ups. wesker and nova have been covered pretth well.
zero is quite possibly dorms worst match up. the buster destroys most of dorms options to include the flame carpet. zero can proceed to rush down and dorm is almost completely assist reliant at this point. if dorm can get a stocking flare out he can win the match, untilvthen zerobhas the upper hand.
dante air play to forward air dash plus the insane range on his normals shut dorm down. that and teleport can stop dorm from charging spells or carpet.
im not experienced with playing viper or good vipers…
Zero is not a terrible matchup unless you try to pretend you’re playing against someone else than Zero. The same goes for Nova. The Vergil matchup is up for debate; Padtrick actually thinks it’s 6-4 Dorm when both have the same access to meter, while I think it’s the opposite. You would be hard pressed to prove that Spencer and Wesker are not bad.
AIr Play + ADF is completely irrelevant to Dorm. He has so many ways to not care about Air Play. Dante’s teleport is unsafe unless covered by an assist.
lol are you really taking a statement from padtrick as some sort of concrete fact or evidence.