I guess where we disagree, then, is that I don’t think I don’t think her not approaching the situation “correctly” is equivalent to him not doing so, not because of her sex, but because he was the aggressor. In other words, she did something inefficient, he did something wrong.
They profit from it, and they know anti-sex feminism bandwagon will give them money.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2025/krpc.jpg
Kotaku can only be deal with by not clicking, advertising, and give them any of their views. They make the most conversational topic titles for attention.
I’m only going to post in this thread to warn more people not to give these assholes a dime of your time.
Anti-sex feminism?
What does that mean? It sounds like a word that sounds evil but doesn’t have much meaning behind it, like “Islamofascism”
Classifying anything that depicts a female as sexually liberated or comfortable = bad to anti-sex feminists, reasonable to pro sex feminists. Effectively, anti-sex feminists want women to be able to wear what they want, do what they want and say what they want, unless they want to show cleavage or do porn or otherwise do whatever they want with their body, because it’s bad for women as a whole.
An example would be that Penny Arcade article about KOF being sexist because Mai has large tits and her shirt explodes in rare situations (ones I’ve never run into as a Mai player, but it might be I’ve never died to a fireball). To an anti-sex feminist, that’s a completely rational argument, after all if you’re attractive every other facet of your character is apparently an afterthought to developers. To a pro-sex feminist, it’s a fighter that is equally strong to the men that happens to have an appealing body that she is comfortable with.
Whether or not you classify yourself as one, if you share the view that creating a sexually appealing female character is sexist, then you’re sharing the anti-sex mindset. If you don’t, it’s likely pro-sex or something inbetween. If you choose the former, you’re also likely a moron.
They are against people making any type of fan-service/sex/etc out of a girl. They are against anything that has cleverage for male viewer. Since it doesn’t cater to them, they instantly think it’s bad.
You realize there is different degrees of Feminism right?
Only King’s and Yuri’s clothes burst on KO. It’s an Art of Fighting reference since it is an Art of Fighting feature. It’s only limited to those characters because they’re from that series; Mai is from Fatal Fury and wasn’t given that clothing burst feature.
I didn’t read the article, but if they said that Mai’s clothes rip on KO, they’re full of horse shit and didn’t do their research.
THey didn’t say Mai’s clothe rip
Yeah, the guy that seemingly wrote the article just left it vague in his comment beneath the article (saying the women in the Women’s Fighting Team have their shirts explode when they’re KO’d) but the idea that a call back to an old mechanic in a game is a perpetuation of rape culture is even worse, I completely glossed over that idiocy when I first read it.
In the original Art of Fighting games, even the guys had their clothes blown off. Maybe they didn’t have the time to finish it for Ryo, Robert, and Takuma/Mr. Karate. I know for sure they weren’t able to finish many animations for the characters and perhaps it wasn’t finished at the time for the aforementioned characters. I bet if SNKP was given time, they’d add crouching walk forward animations for the Fatal Fury characters like they did for KOF94/95.
Ahhh the PA thing doesn’t belong in this thread TBH.
The problem wasn’t that he got offended by aesthetics of a videogame (it’s a non-issue because we couldn’t care less about his insane paranoia, seeing racist malicious intents everywhere…)
The backlash was that this piece of (silly) opinion was passed of as a “videogame review”. If he’d give Guilty Gear a 10/10 because it has a gay character and a feminine male and various sizes of boobs that don’t bounce, it would still be a horrible videogame review.
The the PA thing is mostly about a reviewer who doesn’t know how to do reviews, and has nothing to do with this thread, which is originally about some asshats attacking a whole community of players because they live in their own dream world and have the answers to their questions already ready before they even bother to ask them i.e. they do not want to know any better.
- I’m curious which boobs in GG bounce and which don’t?
- Venom is gay but you wouldn’t really know it unless u played through his story mode.
- Bridget is a feminine male, but u would think its a girl if u didn’t play through his story mode.
The “unless you played through his story mode” is your own bloody fault if you don’t play the story mode.
Trying to make a character “look gay” almost always leads to offensive charactures of gay people and a trap that’s meant to be convincing enough for characters to be fooled by in game shouldn’t be able to be identified as a man at a casual glance.
Are you trying to imply that somebody has to look or act a certain way to be gay? Do they have to be wearing hawaiian shirts and tight pants, maybe gyrate a little bit before a fight? That’s a bigoted way of looking at things, looks like Blufang will be known as a notorious homophobe now.
Jokes aside, we’ve gone beyond the initial subject of the thread and I’m awaiting an imminent lock. There should just be a clear, focused thread for these sorts of debates instead of it transitioning into it in multiple different ones where nothing gets established/resolved.
I think you missed Blufang’s point. His point is that these characters are intentionally not designed in the way you describe.
way to miss the point
So…should I bother watching the videos and posting a reply? I feel conflicted now, I have a good 5 years worth of notes in my head that I never codified (this means that for I couldn’t and wouldn’t use it for actual published research).
This is seriously why people shouldn’t be playing with the word culture. Most people don’t understand the amount of damage they do by misuing the word or pretending they did research into a “culture.”
Basically, in the late '70s and early '80s, there was a schism between a lot of prominent feminists (and some who became prominent during the debate) that started over pornography, but spread to being about sex, more broadly. One side identified as pro-sex or sex-positive and the other as anti-pornography. “Anti-sex” arose as a pejorative label for the anti-pornography side, and continues to see use to describe feminists descended more from Catherine MacKinnon than, say, Kathy Acker. It’s definitely a loaded term, but it’s actually a pretty real thing that has a fairly specific meaning.
I honestly thought we just played fgs. Didn’t know we were a religion or something like that
I could’ve sworn I had some shit I was gonna write about this but w/e. Too many dudes in this community think they are these amazing intellects and don’t know their heads from their assess (think this is why i stopped bothering but oh well). The deal with the “FGC” it is a culture. Thing about the world culture is that it is both incredibly personal and kind of meaningless. Culture gets created and destroyed every day. The average person isn’t really aware of culture. At the very least they are not aware of culture in the same way that somebody who studied anthropology or sociology is. So while the average person can tell you a lot about the cultures they are a part of, it’ll be missing certain things to it. Similarly an anthropologist can go on about having done participant observation in a culture (you basically go there and act “native” so you get a sense of wtf is going on) and still be missing some stuff. Culture is really fucking messy.
So why is culture messy? The first of these is that as a stranger coming into a culture, you’re only allowed so much to see. Not only that but, while you may have all these amazing notes taken, sometimes its one or two details that help you make sense of things. If you don’t have a good insider to help guide you through it, you can do a shitload of damage to a group by sending out a bunch of half assed misinformation (yes, this has unfortunately happened before).
Then we have the FGC. There are some very obvious spaces that were a part of it, there are history and important people and all this great stuff. All these people hanging out being themselves and acting in a group will create culture. The thing is that since a lot of the “FGC” is essentially a bunch of different groups all over the country, you have a million and a half tribes creating variations on a culture. Sure some things are going to be similar. But there are going to be some nuances between NY to Cali, from Atlanta to El Paso, North Dakota to Florida that a person should be aware of when trying to talk about “FGC” culture. You have some common ground in the way of majors but guess FUCKING what? Majors also carry their own culture surrounding it that are a small part of the bigger whole. In this way majors can be looked at, in an analogous ways, to religious/cultural festivals. They are part of the culture but come with some special rules.
So I said the FGC was messy, right? This is where it gets fucking hilarious. You have a community composed of a bunch of people from various economic, racial and geographic backgrounds. Try and say, with a straight face, that the FGC taught somebody to do something that also happens in other games and/or society in general. Really, really think about this.
Why does the last paragraph matter? Because the FGC gets accused of being misogynistic, racist and a bunch of other shit. Now take into consideration just how much shit talking happens in the community in general. More important than that: take into account the amount of low blows that get handed to people regardless of who they are. So I’m sitting here with all these mental notes on shit talking and…people say some unsavory shit to women. They say it when they win, they say it when they lose. Some of the women talk about (a few years ago one of the local El Paso guys sent SherryJennix to losers, she was mad as FUCK). If I know there is a tradition of shit talking that happens, and I know that the shit talking gets incredibly personal with people, how can I start making a distinction between regular saltiness with gender appropriate insults and actual misogyny?
You may have an answer but I am gonna murk it the fuck up for you. Because you see, having a degree in anthropology I could get put into a bunch of places where I have to make calls on people. I have to say “yeah this is legit” or “no, this is just a bunch of bullshit.” So we have some places that treat women like shit, hell a bunch of random rap videos treat women like ass and we can’t even start on all the eSport people that put pussy on a pedestal and trample on it at the same time, what happens when behaviors from other socio/cultural places start bleeding into the community? You gotta remember that this is a culture created by outsides. I don’t have the benefit of a tribe that was isolated for some 200 years. People are bring in things from other places and it can be very hard to trace it. The Cross Assault incident gets brought up a lot, but Aris has numerous videos of him acting like Aris well before Cross Assault happened. In the face of said evidence how do I say that Aris was being mysoginistic or simply treating Miranda like a regular person but using gender appropiate insults?
For the majority of people this is very clear cut. If I am looking at it like a serious anthropologist I have a problem because what I end up writing officially can hold very real legal weight. I can have 3 twats well documented and, if I’m not careful, can brand a community with some ugly shit.
Some weeks back HonzoGonzo had a podcast with a female guest. She related a story of getting hit on with a very shitty pick up line. Where do I draw the line between a problem inside a culture or it being just regular culture stuff (guy finds girl attractive and tries to get in her pants…this one just happened at a fighting game tournament).
That’s the problem. Anthropologists work really hard and take some hella extensive notes (including gigantic charts of who knows who and families etc.) to try and narrow shit down. They do all this so they can say with the most amount of certainty that yeah, this is part of their culture. how the fuck is some random twat gonna go around waving a dick and declaring shit? If you never considered any of the above, why in the fuck would you continue engaging in the use of the word haphazardly? The moment the word culture is use, you are talking about an incredibly intimate part of how a person and/or group functions. Doing so can cause irreparable damage to said groups.
If you are not prepared to understand the amount of issues surrounding that word, you need to bounce. Don’t try to get cute and rename it. Talk about your experiences because they are important. Not having a degree in anthro/sociology doesn’t diminish your ability to talk about something you experience daily. But to go out and say some shit about a group and call it cultural…Your balls better be in place and your research on some fucking ST akuma point. Because a lot of baggage gets brought in from a lot of different places into communities that are similar to ours. If you really want to get into it and say some shit, you better be taking a damn good look at the overall thing.
Addendum: While I did add the misogyny thing as an example, there is one peculiarity that I left off from the main thing written above. In a lot of hobbies/spaces occupied by men, a culture is going to develop that is created from that fact. When women enter it, some shit similar to the misogyny the FGC gets accussed of happens. For example, my wife worked at the Sears tool department for a couple of years. She had hella people look at her and ask “Can I get a man to help me?” as well as say a bunch of other dick shit because she had a vagina. My wife knew more about tools than her whole department. Taking this into consideration, think about other spaces that were majorily male which would have to adjust if an influx of females came into it. What would that look like? If it is possible that similar things to the FGC problem would happen then, could you say, with a straight face, that misogyny is an FGC problem?
Ok, I have a question for all of you. Why is it, after what Aris did, does the FGC still associate with him? He still does commentary during tournaments. He still has a major stream on Twitch. He’s still allowed at tournaments.
The fact that he has faced no consequences as a whole show that, for the most part, the FGC is ok with what he did. While that may not be how the FGC feels about him, that is the message you are sending to outsiders like me. Frankly, Aris should have been banned from every major tournament in the country and told never to show his face again.
I don’t know if anyone on SRK has noticed, but the FGC does not have a stellar reputation. Most people don’t see all the trash talking and off color jokes as “a part of the FGC culture.” They see it as a community full of crass, immature, unprofessional frat boys, and the incidents with Aris and Noel Brown are not helping that image.
Like it or not, that presentation sums up exactly how everyone else feels about the FGC. You don’t like being called racist and sexist? Then prove that you aren’t.