Ugh I don’t know if the Honda matchup is worse than 6/4 or even 5/5, but it sure as hell is frustrating. Honda is such a tank and one mistake means Ex-headbutt which feels like a truck. Hard to come back against turtle Honda when Honda has the life lead in my experience.
I think some of the talk on the Honda matchup is a bit dramatic. He wins around 5.5-4.5. It’s, like, the matchup is easy to lose, since his damage output is so high, but it’s a matchup you can easily win if you outturtle him.
I just proofread that
Spoiler
Fuck, that doesn’t make any goddamn sense.
I know what you mean. I look at a bunch of Honda matches and reflect on my own wins and losses against Honda, it’s like a good chunk of the damage is big chip and good counter hits.
One of the many matchups where I feel helpless. I do good footsies, get a few b&bs, and then get hit by an EX headbutt and now I’m losing.
Is there anything Bison can do to straight up BEAT headbutts without the huge risk of eating all the damage? I’ve roundhoused them before on accident, jab seems to lose, PC always loses, scissor kick doesn’t seem super reliable…
For myself, I kind of approach it like rush him a bit til he gets meter cuz the autocorrect EX-Headbutt is kinda b.s. because the hit box is humongous. Afterward, I just chip him out with well spaced LK Knee press or one hit MK/HK Knee Press chip damage. It’s a little lame.
A lot of the Honda’s I fight don’t put enough pressure on me. I don’t see a lot of hands fadc oicho/ultra 2. Is it super risky if anybody knows?
It is a bit risky, since reading it and jumping out can net you a free combo (and with characters that can combo into ultra, the damage potential is pretty high). Also, when you see the fadc, you know they’ve lost down and back charge, which gives you more flexibility in how you can react. If you’re sitting on a charge, you can ex psycho crusher any followup after the fadc, and the best they can do is block it and eat the chip.
iplaywinner’s August tier list is up.
Bison’s still up top.
Any insights as to why it’s 6-4 instead of 7-3 in favor of Guile?
Probably because the people who made the tier list wanted 4 top characters. I don’t agree with a lot of the tier list (in regards to Bison) actually.
Actually once Guile gets knocked down, Bison can pretty much rape him. The only problem is that Bison can’t force a knockdown. He kinda has to get lucky.
My guess is that they’re afraid of putting down 7-3s, but I don’t really mind because there are probably only a handful of them anyway, and getting the direction is more important than the number, IMO.
And as strange as it sounds, Guile has to play fairly on point in order to really control the match while not backing himself into the corner. It’s a really lame and exhausting match on Guile’s end. There’s a pretty interesting discussion about the matchup in the Guile forums starting with this post:
http://shoryuken.com/f258/guile-strategies-matchup-thread-updated-consolidated-page-1-190551/index87.html#post9286767
Maybe AndyOCR is really making those Guiles work for those wins. 
I personally think it’s worse than 6-4, but not worse than 7-3 though.
I read that one dudes post and honestly I think he’s a scrub guile… I think good guiles have a good Idea how to play against bison. I lol’d when he was talking about our EX Sk’s going through fireballs when guile has godlike recovery on his booms… I think in high level play the match up is indeed 7-3 guiles favor. It’s not even a walk in the park for ryu who has better tools to deal with guile. [media=youtube]MB_Tb-oiig4[/media] if possible skip to 0:54 seconds
The discussion continues for a few posts below that. In particular:
Warahk placed top 32 at Evo and beat Andy to get out of pools. So he’s not a scrub. Slinkun replies:
Jeron also comes in with his bit, but he says he enjoys the matchup as Guile. I thought it was interesting to read.
Guile’s lp sonic boom is the bane of my existence. It’s just slow enough that it’s almost impossible to ex-scissor through and it has the same recovery of everything else so jump ins lose. About the only option is to take it or fadc through it. If you block the boom, then Guile can immediately start hitting buttons because of blockstun so that helps him with the footsie battle. Overall though, I’ve had great experience just st. mk the crap out of Guile until I can find an opening.
LP Sonic Boom is too good. The recovery is the problem here, he can just dash/walk/b+LK with the LP Sonic Boom next to the character because recovery is so fast. There’s just no solution with focus attacks when that is being used heavily if Guile knows it. We know getting in mid-range is the only way to get Guile to flinch and maybe stop the sonic booms. It’s how we can apply it against the player is the hard work here. Perhaps Andy and Warahk play enough that he knows how to mess with his mind.
It’s just real rough building up the momentum, especially in the first round. When things heat up towards the end of first round and beginning of the next, it gets better because having meter is what’s vital here. I mean, I lose most of the first rounds vs Guile that I feel are good at handling Bison. I might as well just use it to build meter via Devil’s Reverse, chip damage, and safe block strings and stuff.
Building upon that, do you guys have any subset of strategies of meter management for specific match ups? Because I know for a fact there’s a handful of matches that I personally keep a close eye on meter and there’s just no way out of some sort of situations the other characters/players may put me in.
Care to elaborate on that meter management question?
Also, I burn meter way too much. Most knockdowns turn into ex-reversals if the opponent I’m playing doesn’t know how to punish it (which is basically everyone here but our state champ and a foreign exchange student from Japan).
Well, just having a good amount of like 2-4 meters for a given round to score damage, escape, or present a knock down for damage opportunities.
I would like to know why people think Balrog is even. IMO it is clearly is Balrogs favor. Bison really can’t do much and not to mention that BnB combos don’t work on him.
I say it is 6.5-3.5 in Rogs favor.
Bisons Bad matchups to me are…
Guile 7-3
Chun Li 6.5-3.5
Balrog 6.5-3.5
E.Honda 6-4
Zangief 6-4
Sagat 5.5-4.5
It’s even because Balrog doesn’t have good wake up game, can’t cross up, needs meter to mix up/break through with EX moves, can be safe jumped.
Balrog has good footsie, fast 3f c.LP, and a somewhat easy Headbutt into Ultra 1. He does have some nice hit confirm combos into Ultra 1, I’ve scrubbed my way with Balrog with basic c.LP c.LP c.LK xx Headbutt -> Ultra 1 a lot randomly on people. His jabs exploit a lot of frame disadvantage, but Bison has that awesome safe LK Knee Press he can do nothing about except guess a good way to get in and knock Bison down.
But this match hasn’t changed much since vanilla, it’s pretty much the same except Bison has a little more bag of tricks here and there.
Both characters can do safe chip, both characters are free on wakeup, both characters have good 3 frame normals, both characters have good pokes. Balrog players complain about lack of comeback ability. Bison players also complain about lack of comeback ability.
Use a different bnb. s.lk x2, s.hk, or s.lkx2 xx scissors.
There’s a Balrog thread where a bunch of people think Bison is his worst matchup because Bison is usually safe and hard to punish, and has an ambiguous crossup. Yeah maybe they’re playing the matchup wrong, but maybe then again the same could be said on our end.
Matchup is even, IMO.
Balrogs low jab is better than Bisons low short because it’s a mash move and combos into itself which means it cannot be interrupted on block. This also means that Balrog owns the up close game. He easily counters sk with his jabs as it is easily stuffed so safe chip really doesn’t mean to much.
He can ultra from a jab as well and Balrog needs to make a big mistake for Bison to get ultra.
Other things are it is much more difficult for Bison to gain meter. Balrog has godly AA as well and he can Jump at Bison for free all day long. I just think Balrog has much better tools to win in this match-up.
In this match the Bison player has to block a lot more and can’t play nearly as aggressive safely like Balrog.