Dhalsim - YOGUH!

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
521

df+Fierce/Medium gets stuffed. Back up and yoga fire. Not sure if jab yoga flame would work. If all he’s doing is jb.mk, wait til he lands and then do s. mk/rh. j. RH is nice too if you predict a jump in and shes higher than you are in the corner

I think it might be more accurate to say he has so many anti-airs. However, the anti-air you use is case specific. You need to think about which attacks beat which jump-ins and learn those well first. Then once they become second nature, you just need to work on your reaction.

There are 4 scenarios to consider:

  1. DeeJay does jumping attack such that he cant hit you.

Here you have a few options:

c. Fierce. Prob best option. He has to “land on your limb.” If you do it too late he can block it. I think j. jab might beat this, but I’m not 100%.

s.Rh. If done early enough it’ll stuff him clean. Anything after apex of his jump and it might trade.

jf. Rh. Also viable. Experiment with the timing.

  1. DeeJay does a jumping attack such that if you block it, there would be around an 1.5 inches of space between youafter he lands

c. Rh. should beat it. (not sure if j. jab beats your slide though).

jb mk. Take advantage of Sim’s floaty jump. Depending on distance, jb Fierce might connect as well.

s/j. Rh. Experiment with timing.

  1. DeeJay does a jumping attack such that if you block it, there would be around less than 1/2 inch of space between youafter he lands

A bit trickier. Depending on which attack he does, you could try crossing him up with a slide. A better option would be to anticipate it and then do jb. Fierce/mk. b+jab/lk/mk might work, but if he does sth like j. Rh, you not only lose the trade but he’s still closer than he was before.

  1. DeeJay jumps over you

b+mp can work
walk underneath him. If he attacked, then his recovery time will be longer than if he didnt attack. Go for the noogie. If he didnt attack you could try for the noogie, but he has shorter recovery time. Another option is to just lk slide underneath him to reset the situation.

You should really learn to anticipate jump-ins and responding with jumping anti airs like j. RH, jb. MK/Fierce. Another option is c. RH slide, but certain moves can beat this and plus, it gets guile closer to you, which is what you dont want. If he jumped over your FB and you’re getting out of the recovery, and its too late to jump back, then you may as well do b+mk since you didnt anticipate it in advance and hes going to be close to you anyways.

If theyre backfisting/flash kicking every time you hit them with b+MK, you’re getting predictable. Try to read the situation and apply other moves to push him back, such as s.lp/mp/Fierce when an oppertunity presents itself. Also, if you know hes going to flash kick, just block it in anticipation, and noogie. If hes going to sonic boom, if you’re up close, sliding is an option, but then it gets you closer to him. From further away, you can either yoga fire, or just block it so it pushes you back and hence gets you further away from him.

c. rh knocks down if they jump closer to you. From farther away c. mp/fierce. s. Rh can also work if done early enough.

The answer is: you dont. Blocking an air hurricane kick leaves you in block stun longer, so its easier for Ken to throw you. Its a legitimate tactic, so I wouldnt call the Ken player a scrub by virtue of that alone.

Depending on distance, you can c. rh if hes further away; b+ mk if hes closer, or you can always c. short/mk slide underneath it depending on distance. mk leaves you in recovery longer so experiemnt with this.

No. You always want to anti air Blanka and Chun. Its a question of which anti-airs will work depending on the situation. Regarding Blanka, if Blanka jumping from full screen away, j. Rh works well; a little closer than that, and j. Rh works, but you have to anticipate it eary. A better option is jb mk/fierce depending on distance. If after they jump attack they will be less than an inch away from you, early lk yoga blast will work. b + mp/mk might trade depending on distance. b+ lk/lp is a really crappy option because you take worse damage on trade. anti air slide might work if they did jumping jab, but prob wont work if they did j.rh and will lose to late c.fierce. If hes right on top of you/trying to jump over you, b + Mp will work; walking underneath him and noogie works better, esp if he attacked.

I think the reason why you lose is because you dont know what anti-air works in which situation. Again, its not about being overwhelmed with choices as it is knowing what works in each situation because this narrows your list of choices down to only one or two (three max). You can surpass your plateau by memorizing ahead of time which options work and the scenarios they work in. Thats why I like Sim: hes top tier, but hes not brainless. You really have to know each matchup, which anti-airs work, and how to keep them away.

Dont get too frustrated about Chun. Its a pretty bad matchup. It could be worse… it could be Honda :rofl:

When you play online players that dont know how to fight Sim, think of this as an oppertunity to experiment with what moves beat their moves. Play the match as though you are playing someone who is competent, but play the match to learn from the experimentation, and not so much with the motivation of “this guy sucks, so if I lose, I suck even more because I lost to a scrub.” Above all, dont be predictable.

Of course you are frustrated. Sim has a high learning curve :looney:. Learning from your mistakes is the biggest favor you can do for yourself though…

522

They were ground hurricane kicks. This dude just did ground hk tatsu, throw, ground hk tatsu, throw attempt, ground hk tatsu, repeat. I mean if it works, use it, but it was kinda just like you could tell he was like HURRICANE KICK! LET’S DO HK BECAUSE IT DOES THE MOST DAMAGE!1! I know I was on the topic of anti-air so that may have been misleading. Like for Ryu’s ground tatsu you block, duck, b+hp. Ken’s hits at a different speed so I was wondering if there’s an easy counter.

Did you mean to type that, or was that a joke, or what? I don’t really understand being able to use a jumping normal on reaction as anti-air to fast jumpers like Blanka. Jump fierce makes sense because of the angle, but j.rh?

Well, yeah. That is a better way to put what I was trying to say. There’s so many anti-air options. Scrubs will use any random jumping normal, instead of the logical one from said range they jump at - so it’s hard for me to use the correct one and/or learn how to beat certain normals because it’s always random shit that nobody really does, y’know? It’s like, I have a pretty good general knowledge of what to use in order to beat what - it’s knowing that they will be using that normal that is the problem. I can react to a jump-in, but I can’t tell what jump-in they’re going to use. I mean I have an idea on what would be the ideal one at their range, and when I guess wrong it’s frustrating because it’s like why would you do that? I can tell they don’t know what they’re doing and when I lose to that it makes me want to shoot myself, lol

I think I give off more of a new/scrubby air than I mean to - I’m not new to sim. I was gonna say I’m not still ‘learning’ sim but then again if I’m having problems and improving I guess I’m always learning. I’ve been playing him since vanilla ST, hence the extra frustration in plateauing. I guess I’m just too mechanical with sim and I’m having a hard time breaking it. Like, a truly good fighting game player can probably play me two rounds and figure out my sim. :confused: I can’t break the habitzzz

523

Regarding Ken’s hurricane kick, there really is no easy counter. If you predict Ken doing a Hurricane Kick, from afar, s. MK works. If its closer, you might be able to trade with b + MK (not 100% certain).

Regarding Blanka, it should be jt. RH from full screen. If he is in between full and mid range, then j RH if you anticipate it early. Otherwise, yea, jb. MK/Fierce.

Dude, its just a game. Dont kill yourself over it…

524

NO IT’S SERIOUS BUSINESS

I was being facetious - I guess I could use a less intense phrase to describe my frustration, I am a pretty dramatic person. :lol: Tried to make it seem like a joke by adding the “lol”

It’s not just a game when money’s on the line, son! I’m training for a tournament saturday. :china: I’d love it if someone could play me a while and give me pointers/constructive criticism… Gotta get my invites to work though, not sure about that. I should check my topic.

Part of my frustration/lack of being able to improve with sim is I have character ADD and can’t stick to one character for long enough (in any fighting game). I just sat down and played like 30 matches of just sim and can see improvement already. I am just dumb. Anyway if anyone wants to add me and help train me tomorrow if I’m on, that’d be cool. If I can get invites to work yet.

525

Oh, and speaking of shotos, how do you punish Ken’s hurricane kick (ground) when blocked? I just played a super super scrubby ken who used a lot of hk hurricane kick and the best I’d do was throw him (teched) or tech his throw. I know how to get Ryu’s because it’s slower and three hits, but Ken’s is awkward. Figured I should know in case anyone else gets scrubby on my ass.

start of round against hurricane kick happy ken- jump back forward kick. slow fireball then yoga flame. slide then yoga flame. yoga flame, then upward yoga flame. yoga flame just outside of his dp. slide, then yoga flame, then throw or noogie in the corner. yoga flame outside of his dp range. upward yoga flame. yoga flame, then throw for the win.

526

I find yoga flame to be terrible versus shotos (sans neutralizing fireballs). Their jump arc makes me eat a j.rh for free.

527

If you want to find a good use for yoga flame against scrubby players, do from full screen yoga fire-yoga fire-yoga flame. It is hilarious how often people fall for this tactic because they are so used to jumping over the 3rd yoga fire. It even sometimes works against really good players, and hitting them once with it is great since it knocks down and does decent damage for free.

The reason it works better than just not throwing the 3rd fireball and anti airing is that something about hearing the “yoga fire yoga fire yo-” makes people jump.

528

you asked about a hurricane kick (ground) happy ken. the fb’s will bait him into a fireball match, the flame torches him. once you get the timing and distance down, it’s easy to corner ken and then it’s shenanigans. the upward flame takes care of jump-ins, the slide will get you into position after knockdowns, and the standing fierce will push him out far enough that when he jumps back in, he gets torched. after you take a couple of rounds by torching his hurricane kick a couple of times, most of the time he’ll go back to fb’s and jump-ins.

btw, you don’t want to neutralize fb’s with flame because your recovery is longer.

529

:confused: The recovery is way better when you beat a fireball with lp yoga flame. Are you sure you play dhalsim? Yoga flame ends when the flame connects, is blocked, or absorbs a hit of a fireball. Yoga fire however has a set amount of recovery no matter where the projectiles meet.

No offense or anything but I’m well aware of what I can do to beat something before it comes out. I was just wondering about punishing hurricane kick when you’ve already been approached by it. Like when you’re blocking it. I know how to beat anything if I know it’s coming, that’s not very helpful to me. I’ll just make them land on a df+hp next time and see how that works out - I don’t think there’s an easy solution to it like Ryu’s.

I find a good Ken to be a very hard matchup. His LP dragon punch risk v reward is great. He whiffs it and the best I really get is a s.mk on reaction. If I hesitate at all on that punish I eat another mexican uppercut because hey why not just LP dragon punch again. Knee bash traps are hard to deal with, and lp dragon punch will beat any poke if he knows a poke is coming. I don’t think you’ve played very good kens. It’s easy to corner a ken that is stupid and doesn’t know the matchup. He gets one knockdown and can mix you up pretty well with j.lp xx tatsu.

530

You’re right. A Ken who gets in and starts blind uppercutting at point blank range and follows up with Knee Bash is hard to beat. I suggest not getting too flame happy, because Ken can jump spin kick to go over the flame and land right next to you. The air spin kick also hits most of your anti-air moves on the way down.

531

[

dammit, my first reply to this post didn’t go through.

anyway, shortened version: you may be right about the recovery, but the startup on the flame takes longer. i wouldn’t try to keep up in a fb war with lp flames. could be wrong since i rarely use the lp flame. sorry about the recovery/startup mixup.

low mp is standard. hit them as they are coming out of hk. works on both ken and ryu. youtube gian vs chonshu and watch the 2:04 mark. he headbutts him, but again looks like as he is coming out of the hk. anything mid to high would prolly work after the last turn of the hk.

[/quote]

true, a good ken is a hard matchup, but then again a good anyone will be tough because you are playing one of the most difficult characters. i thought you were talking about a scrubby ken who spammed hk’s on the ground. against a ken who knows what he is doing is a different story.

sorry about the misunderstanding,
krimson

532

psn eggogf

hey eggo,
i saw an eggogf on psn with six wins today and was wondering if that was you. if you have a psn account, i would like to play you zang vs sim a few rounds.

krimson

533

i was wrong

i stand corrected about the startup of lp flame. it’s fast n can b used 4 neutrlizing fb’s. i still use fb’s though. i don’t think the recovery time is th@ much longer n u’re worse off if he doesn’t throw n fb. if u’re talking about n fb thrown from afar, i use his recovery time 2 make up ground or bait a dp. the free forward 2 the face when u jump over is good 2. the only time i use the lp flame is after a knockdown and usually if they’ve eaten a few fierce flames. they’ll sit there thinking it’s longer than it is.

534

Yeah, that’s me. I played one night for a little bit, but most of the connections seemed laggy. I don’t know if that’s just PSN or bad luck with who I was matched with. XBL seems so much better in terms of lag-free matches.

535

i have no frame of reference since i’ve never played on xbl. everyone i know says i should switch though so it’s probably psn. i’m in vegas with the best possible connection if you want to play a few friendlies.

krimson

536

I disagree. He doesn’t throw a fireball and you do, he takes a step and jump kicks you in the mouth for a free hit. A max range jump will land on yoga fire in many cases. I use yoga flame’s quicker recovery to gain more distance if that’s what I need. Fireball fireball, yoga flame, short slide, mk slide under the next fireball, or hk trade, jump over mk, whatever. Although a smart player can punish yoga flame with certain characters so it all depends. Still worth throwing into your mixup, you never wanna get predictable with Sim. :razz:

Got fourth place in my tourney and almost 100% stuck to sim. Proud of myself for that. I switched against a Ken just to see what would happen because it’s the same player who knocks me out of every tournament in every game, I never really have a chance at beating him. It was a bad idea but it didn’t really matter. Fourth probably sounds better than it was because there was barely like 10 entrants or something. I did play well, I thought. No vids because nobody fucking cares about this game now that remix is out. Ah well.

537

[quote=“Mechanica, post:536, topic:50715”]

I disagree. He doesn’t throw a fireball and you do, he takes a step and jump kicks you in the mouth for a free hit. A max range jump will land on yoga fire in many cases. I use yoga fire’s quicker recovery to gain more distance if that’s what I need. Fireball fireball, yoga flame, short slide, mk slide under the next fireball, or hk trade, jump over mk, whatever. Although a smart player can punish yoga flame with certain characters so it all depends. Still worth throwing into your mixup, you never wanna get predictable with Sim. :razz:

i don’t use the flame to neutralize fb’s, but it doesn’t mean i don’t use them. i use them against jump-ins if a jump-in is anticipated and against hk’s, but i don’t use them to neutralize fb’s.

against a decent/good shoto, i don’t throw that many fb’s at a closer range unless i know i will have enough time to recover with a st forward, backwards jump, or slide. poke and push out, or bait the dp.

and i’m not sure what you’re saying because you said “a max jump will land on a yoga FIRE in many cases…” and “i use yoga FIRE’s quicker recovery…” where you were arguing for the use of the lp FLAME. you don’t need to go back and reread any of my posts since they’re not making sense to you, but you definitely need to reread some of yours. this all started because you wanted help against a scrubby ken who did nothing but hurricane kick on the ground and i told you flame and upward flame does the trick and low mp if he’s already started in. not about creds here, i was only trying to help out.

anyway, if ken doesn’t throw a fireball: if you throw a fireball and he didn’t, he has to jump up, jump over, block, dp, etc… he has to deal with your projectile before countering and you can advance or maintain optimum range. if you throw a flame (lp included) and he didn’t, you’re a sitting duck while he advances into a more desirable position. AGAIN, these are at a range advantageous to sim. if the shoto is close, either move is going to get punished and i try not to fb or flame.

but honestly, please go back reread your posts, especially about the one with the ken scrub and hurricane kick.

538

Yes, I meant to type flame. Fixed.

I didn’t say they didn’t make sense. I mentioned disagreeing, that’s about it. I was just trying to give an example in that you should/could try incorporating it into your game, that’s all. Just trying to help, don’t get all hostile man.

I know, but the subject has changed. Why are you still on about that? I appreciated your tips but they weren’t really what I was looking for, sorry if I offended you? Well the c.mp is good but in your first post I only remember you mentioning things that will beat hurricane kick if done first.

I know. I said that. I said yoga flame is punishable if they haven’t done anything. You’re completely misinterpreting my intention with my posts. I was just trying to help you as well, to let you know ways I use yoga flame to negate fireballs. This has nothing to do with me rereading posts about a different topic. If you KNOW a fireball is coming, sometimes it’s more advantageous to negate it with a yoga flame. I agree that if there’s a chance he won’t throw a fireball that you should not yoga flame. I’m just saying that if you’re losing a fireball war, a yoga flame gives you less recovery, meaning you can catch up. That’s all. Let’s just change the subject please, we’re bickering over nothing.

~~

I went up against Cole’s dhalsim in remix and did pretty well. I won the first one, he adapted and won the second one (sim mirrors are SO AWKWARD, it’s so hard to flip the momentum) and then the third one as well. It was fairly close though. He doesn’t even play sf2 though anymore, so I totally could have beaten him since he’s all about dat SFIV… but I’m still proud I put up a good fight. He didn’t get a round on the first fight I won >:D

539

Off-topic, but Airdash have we fought before? Your name sounds familiar.

540

I’m just saying that if you’re losing a fireball war, a yoga flame gives you less recovery, meaning you can catch up. That’s all. Let’s just change the subject please, we’re bickering over nothing.

fair enough and thank you for the tip. consider it dropped…