6-4 is still pretty close. Personally, I think it’s more like 5-5. I play with EA Megaman a lot, who has a really nice Honda, and we go back and forth pretty evenly. Maybe I’ll record a set some night when we play.
The thing with this match is that if both players play it right it’s really tough on both ends. Honda has a hell of a time getting in on Sim. You can counter just about anything he tries to do. OTOH, if Honda does get in then Sim has a hell of a time getting away before he’s killed. Keeping him out isn’t easy, but it’s certainly doable.
Slides and far cr.MP will beat most of his jump-ins. I think his LK knee is an exception though. For that, just use close cr.LP.
I can’t do ANYTHING during the fireball slowdown. Vanilla, remix, post-patch remix, it doesn’t matter. I’ve never once gotten a normal to come out on purpose during the slowdown.
Okay, can you anti-air Chun Li at all? like really, at all? Her j.mk beats everything from b.mp to jump back hp to any slide (whether trying to evade or trade or anything). I can’t do anything against chun li. I can lk drill over her fireball and then I’m at a scary range. I can’t consistently trade rh with her fireballs like most characters, I just can’t pressure her at all. She can jump over any fireball on reaction and I feel like I can’t do shit. I’m not psychic enough to win matches solely anti-airing with upflame. Help? Do I just b.mp to extend my hitbox and hope I can throw her first when she lands?
she’s a bitch. oh is she a bitch. you have a better chance in the air against her with regular rh, fierce, and forward. the rh is best when she is coming off of the wall. the other two are good when she is trying to pressure and you’re jumping back.
if you’re on the ground, it depends on her attack. against the forward, upward flame is the best. if you’re not in position, slide in accordingly and then upward flame.
once you knock her out of the air a few times, most likely she’ll back off and start throwing kikkns or turtle to figure out what to do next. now you can start trying to pressure and shenanigan. slide n upward flame. slide/drill n noogie, throw, etc.
against the toe tap, block then b jab as she bounces over and attempts another toe tap. if she helicopters away (don’t know the name of the move and don’t care) fb then drill/slide, or drill/slide n2 position to try and pressure.
this is all easier said then done and is not guaranteed by any means. you have to work much harder for this scrub queen matchup.
Just speaking as an O.G. Chun Li player, the Head Stomp into SPINNING BIRD KICK trick is not something I’d use against Dhalsim. It would be very hard not to get hit by something after bouncing off of Dhalsim’s head, given Dhalsim’s range.
The only way I’d even think about using the Head Stomp would be if I absolutely knew that I could land it deep and get the three hits that I absolutely know would dizzy him.
Then again, if I can hit him that deep with the Head Stomp, I’d much rather just slap the ol’ j.:hp:, cl.:hp: XX :hk: Lightning Kick dizzy combo on him and do more damage.
That being said…doesn’t b+:mp: beat the Head Stomp, anyway? A whole bunch of moves would beat a deep Head Stomp attempt.
I think the HEAD-STOMP is good to pepper in a bit. Especially if you want to use the “instant” overhead version. However, I haven’t seen that used on me for a LONG time.
Anyway, using it once in a while is good to just mix up and disguise you play stile and overall strategy. You may get a hit or two out of hit just because the opponent wasn’t looking for it. But, I don’t think It is a long term viable tactic on t jump-ins. As I said the OH on the wake is the way to go. Especially if they are low on life.
Oh and it beats B+Strong. Or at least I am 99% sure.
i could have looked up the name of that move, or maybe even remember if i had thought about it, but i just can’t dignify her with too much thought, time or effort. god, i hate her. been trying fei and having troubles here and there with her too.
anyway, yeah i can’t remember if the back strong works against the head stomp, but i remember having to block it and then back jab because she’ll just bounce on any limbs you stick out at her as she passes over. i was just adding what i remember works against her aerial attacks with sim and the stomp is one of her signature scrub moves. i also think it works against sim’s slide, but again i can’t remember.
forgot to add sliding underneath her jump at the right distance for a grab/throw is another tactic vs her forward kick.
Don’t hate the playa, hate the game! Scrubs may try to use her, but she’s still beatable. Keep at it.
(Yeah…hard for me to hate on her when she was the second character I learned in World Warrior and since she’s decidedly mid-tier in HDR.)
Can’t you just block the Head Stomp and then easily peg her with a standing or jumping roundhouse? Far standing fierce? Yoga Drill? She shouldn’t be getting away with bouncing off of you when Dhalsim has so much range at his command.
The only way to beat her j.mk is to up-flame, jump back fierce, or jump back drill. But you usually won’t get a chance to use those because most good Chuns will use that move at a time and spacing where you won’t have the breathing room to do it. In those situations your best bet is to block. A second option is to psychic up-flame if you sense she’ll jump. Your final option is to use back + MP to trade and then try to throw or HK drill after the trade.
[media=youtube]e9uOygbBZg0#t=2m5s&fmt=18"[/media]. However, good players won’t use it much because the correct response is to block the head stomp and then make her land on/block a fireball or to drill into a better position and take control of the match. Like Fatboy says, good ones will sprinkle it in just to throw off the tempo or to get some breathing room if you have them cornered.
Chun is a tricky match for sure, but there’s a few key things you can do to make this match much more reasonable. By far, the biggest thing to avoid is throwing fireballs from ~2/3 screen away. At this distance, she can jump MK you on reaction and there’s nothing you can do about it. After that she can go into lightning legs, or tick throw you, or flip kick into either of those, etc. So, just DON’T throw fireballs at that range.
Speaking of range, that’s really the key to this match. If you let her control the range and tempo of the match, you will lose. It seems natural, because many of Sim’s matches are best when he’s zoning out and responding to whatever the player does. But I don’t feel this is the case with Chun. Your best position, IMHO, is to be ~1/4 screen away with her in the corner. Just the distance where your slides will hit her. From this distance, you can mix up pokes, fireballs, flames, up-flames or pause for a second and QUICKLY counter whatever she does. If you play your cards right, you can corner rape her and make her feel impotent.
The next best place to be is right on top of her with you in control. From there, you can mix up HK drills, slides, db.LP, and noogies to rape her. Just be careful not to go too aggro. Whenever you suspect an up-kick, bait it out and then resume your mix-ups.
The only other places you want to be are at 1/4 range in the middle of the stage or full screen away. At 1/4 range, you can use the same tactics as you do in the corner, just not as strongly. From full screen, you’re technically safe but you can’t really harm her. You don’t want to stay there long because it gives her free time to build up her meter. In general, at any range, your goal should be to close in, push her into the corner, and keep her there.
Some other misc tips:
Learn how to MK slide under her fireballs. This is your safest option to close in on her. If you only every jump/drill over her fireballs, she’ll eat you up.
Mix up your drills and the timing you do them. Try to hit her shallow and mix between hitting her kind of late, late, and whiffing completely. An occasional whiffed drill can be a good tool to go into a throw or a poke. Just don’t overdo it.
Also mix up your jumping attacks. HP and MK are your best jump-ins. By mixing up which you do and how early or late you do it, you can throw her off. If you see her blocking low, a late attack can hit her like an overhead.
By mixing up between drills, attacks, and empty jump-ins you can really slow down her game and use that to take control of the tempo. Still, at least half of closing in on her should be done from the ground, IMO.
On the ground, at 1/4 range, mix up your pokes between far cr.MP, far st.MK, far st.MP, and slides. Which to use really depends on what you suspect she’ll do next. Most of those are obvious. The non-obvious one to me was far cr.MP. By adding this to my play I’ve found that, if done early, it can beat or trade with her legs or fireballs. And even if it trades, it can throw her off and allow you to keep closing in on her.
Do NOT get suckered into taking tons of damage from her lightning legs. I still do this way too much, but I’m working on it. Learn the distance/timing where you can MK her, drill, or jump fierce them. Once out of range, if you’re in doubt, just block/stand there. It’s better to make her bored and see what she does next than it is to do a failed attack and eat it.
If she’s jumping around, jump back fierce works well and does good damage, but the spacing has to be right. If it’s not, jumping MK is an excellent alternative. It works in a lot of air-to-air situations. Drills are another good choice, but they’re also very situational.
NEVER slide under her air attacks unless you’re sure you’ll make it past her. If you fail, most of her jumping attacks will cross-up into big damage.
Learn the distance where her fireballs fade out. Instead of a classic fireball war, you can stand just past where hers will fade out and throw a fireball right as it’s fading. You can use this spacing to close in or make her lose the fireball war much more quickly.
This match seems a lot like the Honda match to me in that there’s a LOT of situation-specific stuff you have to learn in order to swing the match back to even, or possibly even into your favor. I’m still learning this one too. So, if you guys see any fault in any of my suggestions or have anything to add, please do :china:
(Yeah…hard for me to hate on her when she was the second character I learned in World Warrior and since she’s decidedly mid-tier in HDR.)
one of my first too, but i try not to use her now. once in a while i’ll use her if i’m going through every character. mid-tier or not, she’s easy to use against zang and sim tactic wise. you have to work much harder for the win with my two mains.
Can’t you just block the Head Stomp and then easily peg her with a standing or jumping roundhouse? Far standing fierce? Yoga Drill? She shouldn’t be getting away with bouncing off of you when Dhalsim has so much range at his command.
[/quote]
no, she hits any standing limbs that stick out at her. the jumping rh might work, but she’s long gone before you can get a drill. haven’t played this match in a while, but she definitely stomps the fierce and forward if you’re standing. rh i can’t remember. my timing of the moves might be off too, but i think blocking then back jab is/was the best option against the stomp.
This helped me a lot. I had several PMs from ppl telling me they liked this. With CB doing the 3v3 ST tourny@ evo, my interest in updating the blog has has perked again. We’ll see what happens…
Thanks for the tips. I’ve never once gotten jump back fierce to work on anything Chun does, but maybe my timing and spacing are off. Can you mk slide under her jab fireball? Or is it too fat and slow? I can’t control this match because A) I can’t land a noogie with the reduced range, and B) I can’t do anything about j.mk so they’re never scared of fireballs because they can jump on reaction. But I gotta remember not to use fireballs as a crutch. This is the one matchup (Honda in second) that makes me want to never play Sim again. You could see me play any other character and perhaps think “oh hey he’s a decent sim” but you watch me play Chun and you’re like “why the fuck does this guy play sim?” :lol:
Need some matchup practice but it just frustrates me. I hate chun so very much.
I’m 99% sure you can. The timing/spacing on all of them are pretty strict. But it’s worth practicing. It opens up a lot of doors in this match.
My advice is to forget all about the noogie throw-loop tactics. I contend that it was never a viable strategy even in ST. If you get close, use the HP throw instead to drive her into the corner. The noogies are still a good option if she’s right on top of you, but when in doubt just use the HP throw.
With both of those matches, I’ve found that forcing yourself to not throw as many fireballs really does help a lot. With Chun, as long as you don’t throw many fireballs at 1/2~2/3 screen range, she won’t have the opening to use the j.MK. Shutting that down helps a lot. But, be prepared for Chun Level 2, where she runs away all match until she has meter
Excellent. I’m scared to do anything about her jab fireball because it is so god damned fat (& slow).
I have since remix. I never really looked at it from a ‘throw loop’ perspective, I just love the spacing and mind games you get when you land a noogie, especially on Chun with the crossup mk slide and shit.
So you can mk drill her lightning legs? I have problems being patient when they’re mashing lightning legs and dunno what beats it, will have to experiment with that.
You can use any drill to beat LL, but it’s usually not the best choice because you have to hit her upper body. And if you hit her that high, she’ll have time to recover and throw/super/etc you before you land. Here’s what I use:
Far away: Just fireball her
Close, but not pointblank: If you block LL, this is the distance you’ll get pushed to. From here, you can do far standing MK to hit her through her legs. I think you have to time it right for the MK to go through it clean. But after blocking, a slight pause then MK works well for me. Fireball can also work at this range, but if she stops LL and jumps at you, you won’t have time to recover. MK doubles well by beating any jump attempts.
Pointblank: This is when the LL whiff right in front of you. From here, any ground move (Fire, MK, etc.) will extend your hitbox and get you hit. You also can’t jump forward. At this range, I either just wait until she stops or I jump straight up. If I jump up, I can gauge what she does. If she stays in LL I can smack her head with fierce on the way down. If she attempts to walk or jump in, I can drill her. The only danger is if she stops LL and throws a fireball. But her timing has to be just right to avoid getting drilled.
I almost just lost to a Chun who literally, quite literally, did NOTHING but fireball x2, j.mk, mk lightning legs, jump backwards, rinse repeat. In the corner he panicked and jumped backwards with j.mk. In that situation what can I do? J.mk still has nasty priority but it’s not from that scary ‘above you’ angle. MK and HK still get stuffed, and he’s out of range for a yoga blast. Can I make him land on a df+HP/MP? Or is my best option to try to get him to land on (or block, rather, since she falls quickly) a fireball and pressure from there?
I didn’t lose the match thanks to the s.mk way of beating lightning legs. That little pause after you block then peg 'em seems to work well, thanks for that. The match ended up being 3-2 with me having enough life left to die from one throw. Ugh. He seriously didn’t use c.mk, c.hk, or ANYTHING but what I posted up there. Nasty that I had such a problem with it. I need some serious match-up experience…
Anyway, trying to beef up my game for a potential tourney I might go to - my weakest point is anti-air. Which I’m sure is everyone’s problem, he just has so many choices.
Deejay - I’m aware of how well you can trap him with lp yoga fires and s.mk. But how do you anti-air a Deejay who’s managed to jump at you during a hole in your pressure? I’ve tried b.mk which gets stuffed by j.hk and probably mk too. B+jab sometimes trades. I think you can mk slide his j.hk if he gets predictable but j.mk has a huge ass hitbox, I’d never slide on that shit. Can I make him land on df.MP/HP? I guess my problem is when he’s out of range for b.jab or sliding under. He’s just jumping to close the gap and typically I should just block his jumpin but I’m scared of Deejay being that close. He’s not actually close enough to really combo off the jump-in - should I just block?
I think I asked this before, but Guile’s max range j.mk, what should I do here? I can trade with b.mk (I have this issue where I throw that out when I panic, is b+short better? Sometimes I feel like b+short trades less, but you get no damage and not much of an advantage in my experiences) but I hate trading with Guile during anti-air, it puts him in a good spot because he can FK flash kick or boom, and if I sent a yoga fire I get hit by the flash kick or a backfist. Gotta stop throwing yoga fires after trades.
Shotos - is there a good way to anti-air them besides slide? I have awesome luck with mk slide but sometimes I want to do something different because it’s an awkward height to slide/don’t want to risk being thrown before I throw them if I mess up. Just curious on this one.
Oh, and speaking of shotos, how do you punish Ken’s hurricane kick (ground) when blocked? I just played a super super scrubby ken who used a lot of hk hurricane kick and the best I’d do was throw him (teched) or tech his throw. I know how to get Ryu’s because it’s slower and three hits, but Ken’s is awkward. Figured I should know in case anyone else gets scrubby on my ass.
Lastly, is Blanka like Chun in that you don’t want to anti-air him much? I mostly have an issue with j.short. Sorry if this is a repeat question I feel like someone just went over this.
Point blank is a little too high up for b+lk isn’t it? I can’t ever anti-air and throw a fireball on Blanka 'cause he just jumps again. I suppose I could cancel b.lk into fireballs though. I can’t seem to understand how to db+jab as an anti-air - I’m just too low and the hitbox from their jump-in just smacks me in the head. I guess I’m too close but it just seems weird to use, I can’t quite get it.
I think I’m done playing Dhalsim for a while. Too many choices. I’m always frustrated when I lose because I chose the wrong choice. I’ve hit a plateau that I’ve never been able to surpass, and I don’t think I’ll ever understand the Chun matchup. It might frustrate me less if there was still an offline scene here but remix killed it. All I come across in online is players who don’t know how to fight Sim, so then I get these absolutely retarded playstyles that give me horrible habits, which I then try to use them on competent players.
Forgive my rant I’m just frustrated… My only way to play this game is stupid ass randoms on ranked match. I can’t stand waiting around for 4 people to play in a player match (maybe if I multi-task in between matches), and I can’t get invites to work either receiving or sending out. Maybe if I can get that problem fixed I will enjoy myself…
Scrubs may try to use her, but she’s still beatable. Keep at it.