Dhalsim - YOGUH!

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
481

^^^This is some good discussion material. Please go on. Also how does Dhalsim play against Cammy. I feel this is Sim’s worst matchup even more so than Vega or Chun Li. Keeping with what to do when the round starts, good block strings, and zoning aggressively, how do you apply it to (Cammy vs Sim)? Also I am talking high quality Cammy players. I have seen some Sims who are pretty good and just get annilhated.

Silly as this may sound maybe we can have just a thread that utilizes those 3 questions and applies it to every character Dhalsim fights.

482

Also fatboy and John Rambo if you guys could send me an invite when you are playing I would appreciate it. I’m not saying you have to add me but just invite me to a room so I can watch you play. My gamertag is sweet poison. send me a message so I can have an idea when to get on the game.

483

What do you mean by ‘zoning aggressively?’

To be honest, I never see Sim as an aggressive zoner. Don’t force him (or his limbs) into any space where he doesn’t need to be.

Playing to fast with Sim leads to a quick death.

If you can, I’d like to here more about what you mean to aggressively zone. I may have misunderstood you and how you define the term.

I pretty much agree with fatboy here to an extent. the reason being is the “aggressive zoning” definition as well. i’m not sure what you mean entirely. from my experience; keeping away as much as possible (unless you’re down on energy and they begin to turtle) is to sim’s advantage.

on the other hand; on watching gian videos; he plays an aggressive zone dhalsim. what i mean is; he drills and slides into a certain position as much as possible. most sim players who play defensively; will attempt to get out and force their opponents to go into an area in which sim has the advantage of risk vs reward to make up ground. gian (and a few other top players) will make up that ground themselves. i hope this makes sense.

for example; a good dhalsim player with a good lead will back out after knocking down their opponent and force the other player to come to them. but gian will slide or drill into a certain spot to maintain that certain zone on the knocked down opponent. to me; that is aggressive zoning; but again it depends on what you mean and what your definition of “aggressive zoning” is.

for the most part; sim is a keepaway character. the best part about him though is most people do not know how to play against him. at high levels of play sure; but generally speaking an offensive sim can do major damage on the general population. in such situations; i will go on the attack. especially if they are on top of me.

like sometimes if i feel that i can get a dizzy; i will aggressively go for it. this is not the best plan of action. if your opponent is close to being dizzy and he knows it; it’s to your advantage to reset your position rather than attack and bait him/her into doing something stupid.

then again; there is nothing funnier than doing two low forwards n2 a fireball and watch them block the first two moves only to get hit by the fireball and see stars.

again; fatboy stated to not do any unnecessary attacks or force sim into any spaces he doesn’t need to be and he is right. i’m not saying gian goes against what fatboy is saying. i’m just giving examples in which gian gains ground or uses an attack move to get n2 a certain position which can mean “aggressive zoning.” but again gian is not doing any unnecessary attacks or sliding/drilling in next to a downed opponent unless it is to chip damage with his super.

me on the other hand; i’ll throw out a jab fb after a knock down and try to tick throw by teleporting over as the fireball hits them. to me it’s like a no look pass; there’s oos and ahhs if it connects and a “you’re a major jackass” if it doesn’t. attacking with sim is highly risky because he is so weak and can be dizzied easily. but i’ll go for it sometimes because the reward is gloriously funny.

krimson

484

Also how does Dhalsim play against Cammy.

i use similar strategies against her as i do blanka. to me; her pressure tactics; specials and jump are similar. she doesn’t have blanka’s reach but i feel she can dizzy more quickly so that’s a wash.

485

See. I look at this differntly. Gian/ Alex Wolfe are not agressive. They don’t typically do not take any unnessicary risks through out the match. Don’t get me wrong, every action you take has a risk. From watching these two you feel it is all about positoin. You can’t get in on them, they slowly push you into the corner.

Jason Cole & KKY, are much more agressive. They take more risks than the top two. They make you afriad… very afriad. Espeically Cole… getting stuck in his Noggie trap is practically a TOD… Dirty Cole…

Hakese blends both stlyes prefectly. I have watched as many of his vids as I could find. He gets creative and thinks outside of the box. Yet, he only does it when the situaion presents itself.

If you are anybody else other then the last three. You are going to have a BITCH of a time, playing against top playes i fyou get to aggressive. You timing, spacing, and exicution will not be up to par.

The last three are VERY special cases. Many causual sim players will not be able to replicate thier style effeicntly. Which is way I suggest playing the less agressive stlye like Gian and Alex. I think it will get the average player farther.

486

I agree he has difficulty stopping an opponents momentum for example sometimes I’ll lose a round off a single mistimed st mk because to AA with it I have to hit the opponent late enough where the foot hits at the vertex of their jump but early enough where they don’t get too close.

To clarify aggressively zoning I meant controlling space where I’m able to slowly push the opponent into the corner and keep them there ala cole. For example mid range shoto throws an fb so I lp fb and st hp hits them and if they throw another fb I lk drill otherwise I lp fb again and slowly inch forward. While it’s obvious sim is inherently designed to be more reactionary (aka throw lp fb, wait for opponent to react, then use whatever normal accordingly) I also think his ability to take up a large portion of the screen with his limbs should be capitalized upon by limiting the opponents options actively.

Some strings that work for me:

noogie, rh drillx2, cr (b/d) mk, lp fb, rh slide (I don’t always slide just sometimes to get back close again and bait a reversal if I feel they will)
slide tick throw, meaty flame, cr (b/d) mk, cr (b/d) mp though linking it off mk is hella hard.
after fb+ st hp walk forward a little bit and st rh (I use it over st mk in this case because of it’s slightly better range and obvious dizzy power)

487

Which slide do you use to go underneath Blanka if he is jumping towards you? I have tried and I seem to still get hit no matter which one I try. I am thinking short kick. And if so does it work against all jump in attacks from Blanka.

488

My guess is the forward slide. Not only does it go further and have decent recovery, but it can also be used to “cross-under” and hit people (as in, the slide itself hits them when they land and you end up behind them. Couldn’t say I’d try the latter on a jumping Blanka, but going under him with the df+forward kick slide to throw him? Yeah…I’d try that.

489

[quote=“fatboy, post:485, topic:50715”]

See. I look at this differntly. Gian/ Alex Wolfe are not agressive. From watching these two you feel it is all about positoin. You can’t get in on them, they slowly push you into the corner.

well, when he was talking about “aggressive zoning” he meant pushing the opponent into the corner but since neither of us really understood what he meant in the first place the argument becomes somewhat moot.

i’ve watched the videos on all of them, but i couldn’t tell you the various styles of who and what. so take whatever i say with a grain of salt.

when i read “aggressive zoning” i thought he meant moving forward (walking/drill/slide) to maintain the half-screen to 3/4 screen distance where dhalsim is most deadly. watching gian (owning casuals 2k5), he doesn’t back off even against zangief. he just crawls forward against everyone and anyone not only to push his opponent into a corner, but also to maintain optimum positioning (where i’m sure fatboy and i agree). to me this is aggressive for dhalsim (where i think we disagree).

now i’m not saying the way i play is right, wrong, better, or worse. i’m just trying to say what i would constitute as a passive dhalsim vs an aggressive dhalsim. what i do if i’m playing passively, i will back off of the optimum distance and even back myself into a corner during a match and force the opponent to attempt to make up a full screen distance at all times. if i’m playing aggressively, then i’m always within a half-screen distance of my opponent attempting to bait or dizzy my opponent.

to me passive would be playing outside of 3/4 of a screen from your opponent and aggressive is within that distance. with gian, he plays within that distance so i see him as aggressive.

with fatboy’s definition (i could be mistaken and don’t want to be placing wrong words or ideas), my understanding is a passive (cautionary is probably a better term) dhalsim plays a slow and steady game to control spacing whereas an aggressive dhalsim will take much more risks (pokes, jabs, drills, slides, grab attempts, random fbs n flames) where spacing is less significant. under such a definition, gian would be a non-aggressive dhalsim.

anyway, tomato tomoto. potato, pototo…

yoga,
krimson

490

it depends. the opening distance when blanka attempts to first jump at you right as the round begins, the rh slide goes completely under and most of the time you get the freebie. i think that’s the maximum distance of which you can slide under blanka’s jump. if he’s closer to you when he jumps, use the forward. i think i’ve seen vids of gian and kky using the short slide out of the corner against fei long’s chicken wing to get the grab so any of the three will work depending on the situation.

no, attempting to slide underneath will not always work. if you become predictable with attempting to slide underneath, you will see stars. trust me on that one. your best bet is to watch videos of good dhalsim players and watch what they do with given distances and how often they actually slide against their opponents.

491

Got a few Dhalsim questions. I searched the thread, but a couple of my questions were not clarified.

Does doing the reversal Teleport in the corner in the opposite direction (eg. b,d,db, KKK) get rid of the glitch problem where Dhalsim remains in the corner? Ryu1999 posted previously that it doesn’t work, but is this confirmed by other players? Those Taira (Dictator) vs Gian (Dhalsim) matches are great, but as some posters already pointed out, that reversal Teleport was done outside of the corner. Is it both KKK and PPP that have the reversal Teleport glitch? I’m guessing yes.

How is the corner Yoga Flame trap done exactly? Is it constantly spamming Jab Flame? Cuz it doesn’t work for me. Almost all characters can easily jump out after blocking the first one. I do it from max range which is out of sweep range and out of Shoryuken range. Is the Flame trap only supposed to work against specific characters that can’t counter it or jump out of it (eg.Dic or Zangief)? In the Gian vs Taira match, Gian doesn’t spam the Flame, but actually does a throw most of the time, mixed up with a Fire. Is this the “actual” Flame trap?

I’ve come up with another trap of my own design: mixing up Flames with Upflames to catch opponents trying to jump out. eg. Flame, Upflame, Flame x 2, Upflame x 2, Flame, etc. Obviously this won’t work against certain characters’ reversal specials like Guile’s Somersault or against most Supers. But it is remarkably effective and I’ve had some good players fall victim to it over and over again. = )

492

Send me a FR. Put in the message that it is you.

493

Well I was fortuante to play Real Decoy’s Blanka and that was not the best time to go and change tactics against a very, very good blanka player. With that being said I couldnt get the slide under to work and just got destroyed. And tons of biting. I thought I was poking to be safe but not so.

rant coming…I hate Honda. It seems he can get in close and just abuse the sumo splash, hhs, torpedo and Sim just doesnt stand a chance. I wouldnt hate this matchup as much if they hadnt left the stupid teleport glitch in the game. There is nothing practical about it so why keep it. Anyhow played a person name hectatarian and basically HHS. If I was able to counter it with jab punch because I was crouching, a sumo splash came,…

No way is this fight even. Not even close. Anyone who says it is. I want to watch you play high calibur Honda’s and dominate. Then maybe will I change my mind. I know this has been debated numerous times but I think it is 6-4 Honda as Sim has to work sooo hard to win.

494

Sweet, if I can beat Honda’s with Hawk, you can win it with Sim. Its much more winnable with him anyway.

495

Look up videos of Eggo’s Dhalsim on YouTube taking on a string of great Hondas.

496

Thank you all for your tips and input (and I learned some good tips from that Gian vid…), I am happy to say I outright destroyed a few Vegas last night (RH drill, fwd. frc, back. mk, cr.mk was all I needed pretty much) had some great battles against a few Blankas (won some lost some) and even beat a Honda once (god thats hard w/ Sim).

And FifthandSomeBud, how in the name of god were you catching me with those fwd. frc’s last night (against my airborne Guile, the hit box on that move is wild I was still noticeably OVER the arms and I was getting hit)? What are the situations that you can do that in? (and against whom does that work?)

497

Oh, and new question;

Sagat, oh god, Sagat.

I have a feeling long hang time snap drills are the key to this matchup, any tips?

498

^^Sagat’s actually pretty easy for me. I have a harder time vs Honda, Blanka and Claw.

For Sagat I open with j.Forward to stuff any jumpins, Uppercuts or Knees. I sometimes open with Upflame if I anticipate a jumpin or Knee, but very rarely, as most Sagats will open with a Low Shot. Dhalsim can go even with Sagat in the fireball war, and st.Roundhouse or Fierce will hit his arms if he answers late. Kick Drills will also hit his arms.

Anti airs are tricky against Sagat cuz his j.Roundhouse stuffs pretty much everything Dhalsim has, depends on spacing tho. If Sagat is jumping in from far, st.Roundhouse or st.Fierce will catch him. If he’s spamming jumpins, as most Sagats tend to do, Upflame will catch him. However the most effective anti air is j.Forward. I usually jump back and do this to bait an Uppercut, as it will get stuffed or very rarely trade. Hope that helped.

499

most sagats spam uppercuts or knees when getting closer. Block alot, and if they are about to land pressed against you, use noogie or throw. If the block pushes you, use rh slide while they are in the air so the fall on it. other than that fireball war and then do a low short drill right over ther tiger shot. Standing rh works really good at stuffing a jump if you see it early enough. this isn’t too bad of a matchup. just don’t corner yourself too much. keep walking to the center of screen when able.

500

I watched a bunch of Eggos vids against Gats’ and I think I get it, jumping mk and fp stuff him pretty good, stay back a fb like mad, standard Sim jazz up close. I was poking with arms too much before (I had figured no chance with a FB war, but I see now that I was mistaken).