Your original post doomed this thread from being anything constructive. No sense trying to save it now.
The mysterious ‘Arcade perfection’ ordeal is not only about frame counting, it’s also about controls, and accessibility. If it doesn’t have all of that, it’s not going to be as good. No console setup solves all of those problems, even supergun (@ Sabin).
Maybe seattle cares about frame counting, but how many OGs would play CCC2 on an arcade cab any day before DC on a MAS stick? how many play on whatever controls we can find AND deal with some form of delay or lag just to play other people online?
Regardless of which group your in, the OGs still are never going to say your at the same level as them in their prime, and Japan is still going to not give a damn, the only way to please either of them is to play on their complete format on their home turf.
Remember at one time we were playing the same versions, then it was “well this person didn’t go”, “well you were on this coast, not this coast”. If you truly want to impress them, go play on their tournaments, MWC has ST US arcade in the US, SBO has ST Japanese Arcade in Japan. If you want to impress seattle, you can play on DC in the rain. Everyone else is waiting for SFHD and would just be impressed if the bitching stopped.
It’s still the same in other games, MvC2 players all won’t play as well on DC, 3s players all won’t play as well on PS2 (there’s even some rumors i hear about people playing xbox 3s). They have NOT all agreed on console versions, most just accept that it’s the best way to keep their game going and deal with the problems until it gets better. Locally they play whatever version they like and jump through whatever insane hoops are needed to do so, then if they want to go to a different tournament, they just play on whatever is there. Don’t mistake their silence for complete acceptance, also don’t mistake Evo using DC ST as a validation of this madness, it’s just a choice between a bunch of options that aren’t as competitive as SFHD would be if it came out in time.
Way to not get the fucking point, I’m 100% none of us in Seattle only care about DC results. :tdown: Nice try at being funny or witty with bullshit like that though.
Agreed 100%
EVO without ST as a main? That’s like Thanksgiving without Turkey, Christmas without presents…shit just doesn’t go down like that. I’ll personally wipe my ass with every MvC2 disc at Evolution, rendering that game unplayable at the event, if ST …in whatever form we’re playing it…gets yanked off the line up.
The day any GG takes ST’s place is the day I’ve outgrown this entire scene and should take up something not-retarded with my spare time (as in it will become retarded…not that it is retarded now…I’m pretty much setting someone up for a joke slam dunk there…).
I think we’re all barking up the wrong tree here. What is the reason that we’re forced to play an old console version of ST in the first place? Why aren’t we going forward with what was originally planned? Why do I own a T-shirt that says “Fall 2007?”
…SIIIIIIIIIRLIIIIIN!
Seriously, who has ever heard of a game delayed for a year because of “art?”
A standard caveat emptor before I launch into things. This will be post of epic lengths. I seldom stray from the regional sections of SRK, so I generally write in complete sentences. Apologies in advance. People who dont like to read long posts or long sentences should skip on ahead. I would not be offended. For the pith of my criticisms, read the following post.
Some of the stuff I write will be come relevant only further down in the body of the post. Other stuff might seem superfluous. However, as I wish to avoid confusion and not be taken out of context should someone link to my post later, it has been incorporated. Anyone who wishes to offer a rebuttal consisting of but the Wolf Bros. played AE on Japanese cabs, so your argument about Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle is invalid should not only not respond, but should be neutered for the good of human kind.
Thread jacking is not my intent. I surmised that this threads focus is on the flaws of DC ST as a competitive game. A pertinent follow up is to debate whether it is a superior choice over CCC2 to be used as EVOs ST format later this summer.
My aim is to provide input as an organizer first, and as a player second. To begin, I wish to drop some credentials. This is for the sake of contextualizing my perspective. I am not trying to give myself some shine or anything of that nature. It just seems important for people to take into account where I am coming from when they weigh what I say.
I have been an events coordinator for over a decade now. I promoted mainly table top gaming events in the past, and more predominately, TCG/CCGs. I have held marketing positions for two card game publishers. For one of them, I was their organized play manager. My duties in this field over the past decade have most consisted of dealing with the logistics of putting on tournaments/demos, as well as running the events themselves. In addition, I have also worked booths at tradeshows, handled outsourcing of large scale events, structured testing and training programs for local judges to run smaller events, moderated property message boards, edited content on property websites, and a myriad of other menial tasks. Ive even driven a forklift in our warehouse when shipping things after-hours to meet a deadline.
Ive ran large scale tabletop gaming events at Gen-Con Indy, NY Comic-Con, Kublacon, Comic-Con International (AKA San Diego Comic-Con), Wizard World (Chicago, LA, and Texas) A-Kon, Anime Expo, Diecon, and numerous others. All of the larger events were run while I was employed for the publisher of the games. Ive also hosted a few LAN parties in Seattle with attendance in excess of 300 people. So please accept that I have some understanding of the logistical aspect of running events and meeting schedules.
As a player, I am moderate at best. I primary love is MvC2, but Ive never won any tournaments since I returned to the Seattle scene about 1.5 years ago. A few paltry points earned here and there (during seasons 1 & 2 of Seattles ranbats last year) were really only the product of luck.
But while I am a mediocre MvC2 player, those skills mean that I have no difficulty executing anything that ST demands of me. I dont really play Boxer, but Ive landed his j.fierce, cr.jab, cr.jab, st.jab, super a couple of times in matches, but I dont really play him. I might not be a spectacular ST player, but I can pull any combo that zass (Julien Beasley, who taught me ST) told me to, even the theoretical ones that he himself couldnt really perform. I also have no problems seeing all the frames of a move, and spotting when something funky is going on.
Something I should make clear though, is the fact that I am no expert on arcade ST. I started running MvC2 and ST tournaments over a year ago in Seattlethe reigns have since been passed on. And it was towards the end of the first ranbat season (about a month before EVO 2k7) that some of the ST players convinced me to actually try the game. Between July and December of 2007, I played ST a fair amount. I put in at least 6 hours a week into ST during that 6 month period. Sometimes, I endured 20+ hours of that game in a week.
I cannot speak as to whether any version of ST is arcade perfect or not. This is better left to those who have had far more exposure to the game than I. Better yet, those who have access to the source codes would be a better authority yet. For now, Ill believe Sirlin when he says that the DC and arcade version have identical hit boxes.
I will attempt to dissect the needs of a competitive environment, and also that of tournament organizers. In the end, Ill try to offer up an opinion of which version is better suited for tournament play at the national level.
CCC2
When the first season of the ranbat began in Seattle in March of 2007, we used CCC2. The purpose was to train our players for EVO, so using the accepted national tournament format was a no-brainer.
Early Known Issues
We dealt with the known [and controllable] variables. Funky sound effects and occasionally garbled music were not a major distraction. Really random ass glitches were known to occur in VS and Training mode, so all tournament matches were held in Arcade mode. Players were given the option or resetting the game should they land in T-Hawk, Geif, or Feis stages, because the slowdown and speed-ups (while they did exist in other stages) were more pronounced in those stages.
Having to reset the game due to the stages was a pain. But since the tournaments were being held at Preppys mansion, we had to time pressure. If we were holding the tournaments at a convention or a rented hotel (or ballroom or hall) space, then we wouldve been completely FUBARed. If you have to face a closing time when all power in the venue gets shut down and all doors get locked, finishing your scheduled events in the allotted time is critical.
The first season of our ranbat wrapped up about a month before EVO 2k7 Worlds. Prior to sending off our players to Vegas, we held quite a few training sessions in the month of August. It was during these sessions (this was right after I started playing the game) that many of the other issues with CCC2 reared their heads. Perhaps its because our MvC2 playerswho were used to seeing a faster paced game and could spot the smaller details didnt actually play CCC2 outside of the tournaments, that they werent discovered sooner.
Speed
The game play speeds up and slows down noticeably on Fei, Geif, and Hawks stages. But this still happens to a lesser degree on ALL other stages. Worse still, CCC2 is generally MUCH faster than the factory fastest setting on the arcade. As CCC2 runs an emulated version of the arcade rom, frames are no doubt being dropped. For purists, the experience of a technical 2d fighter is diminished when the frame data is altered (from its source), and even worse in this case (due to the variable speed changes), the frame data is inconsistent. But ST is more of a game about match-ups knowledge and anticipating your opponent than it is a twitch reflex technical fighter such as MvC2. A couple of frames being dropped every second is not a big deal, even in competitive ST. That is, unless you consider the next point. . . .
Input Lag
Roughly 2.5 weeks before EVO Worlds, I was a zass home for a training session with some other local players. He decided to jump onto the CCC2 setup (he has a Japanese Egret cab as well), and immediately started bitching about how he couldnt do Chuns cr.forward into cr.roundhouse on the PS2 version. He swore that he has no issues doing it on the arcade version, but that it was impossible on CCC2. I chided him to stop make excuses just because Im kicking his arse, and he said, You try it!
After taking over his arcade stick and goofing for about 8 tries, I was linking the 2-in-1 every time without fail. As I started talking shit to him, he told me to try another Chun combo that he was having difficulty with on CCC2, j.roundhouse, st.strong, cr.roundhouse. I had no problems doing this combo either. But as I was laying smack about the superiority of MvC2 players, one of my other MvC2 skills kicked in. I commented on how odd it was that I seemed to have to press cr.roundhouse (the last hit in both combos that he taught me) well before the animation for the previous hit endedor even connected!
At the time, I told him to just press the buttons early, because CCC2 simply ran faster than arcade ST. Now we know its more than that. NKI has wasted hours of his life that he will never get back (I smirk whenever I think about it no offense man) into proving that CCC2 suffers from an additional 4 frames of input lag. Given that ST regularly has 4 frames of lag (a component of the mechanics that Im not really fond of), the additional CCC2 lag makes you have to press the button in certain combos for the subsequent hit in your combo before the previous hit connects. With certain combos that were hit-confirmable before, you now have to guess in advance.
Consider also that with CCC2s speedups, the established 4 additional frames (Im assuming that CCC2 will always register your input after 4 displayed frames) of input lag can end up being far more detrimental to a players performance. If frames are being dropped due to the higher speeds, you might not know the outcome of a situation even if you had complete understanding of whats going on under the hood. This is to say, if Boxer does his Buffalo Head butt (an AA with a fair amount of invincibility) and Ryu does a Shoryuken (an AA with fewer frames of invincibility) in response almost immediately, in the arcade, Boxers would win. On CCC2, in some conditions, if the moves were activated with the same number of frames in between (a la program pad if NKI really wants to suffer the burden) Boxer might win. But if the game happened to be running fast (with more dropped frames), since Boxers head butt doesnt hit till the 12th frame, theres a chance that Ryus move starts later, and his invincibility will happen to win out. This would be completely random to the players, as the CCC2s speeds fluctuate.
On top of this, as a fighting game player (and Im not simply speaking as an ST player) I cannot fathom how someone could condone playing a game with 4 tacked on frames of input lag. I dont see how any game can be accepted in a competitive environment with 4 regular frames of input lag (just my opinion and is beside the point), let alone 4 MORE frames of lag on top of that (very relevant to the point). With this much lag, I would liken CCC2 ST to rock, paper, scissors, where you commit to something and see how it turns out. It can be a fun distraction, but I personally wouldnt want to play it for fun. At least not while sober.
Button Remapping
As to the buttons randomly being remapped by CCC2 mid-match, I have personally never noticed this happen. I have had people say to me, I swear I didnt press that shit! But I just presumed it was pride talking. If more than one reputable source claims that this actually happened, Ill believe in the possibility.
Other Randomness
Aside from the above, I can say that Ive personally witnessed the following in CCC2s arcade mode:
- Boxer and Chun are standing in Blankas stage, no one is playing (were sitting back and talking match-up strategy), and Boxer just falls down as though he were tripped.
- The game suddenly has garbled music, and the timer (and game play) looked like it was on VHS fast forward for 4 or 5 ticks of the timer. Noticeably faster than Geifs stage.
- Fireballs look like they teleport. This is possibly related to the speed issues.
- Someone gets hit with a 3+ hit combo ending in a sweep, only to flip and recover in the air. If it were the beginning of the jumping frames, its understandable. But this is at the end of a combo.
Dreamcast
Julien Beasley complained about CCC2 almost as soon as he entered our scene last May. He said that it was not arcade perfect and that he couldnt do certain things on the console version. Since hes old and white, I ignored him for the most part (kidding). And since CCC2 was the version being used for EVO, there was little purpose in practicing on anything else.
After EVO Worlds, Beasley requested that we switch to another version of the ST for season 2 of our ranbats. We took an online vote amongst the local players to see who was in favor of the change. Beasley and a scant few others pushed for another version, a few more players wanted to stick with CCC2, since it was what they were used to. The vast majority did not mind either way. So we stuck with CCC2.
For the first tournament of season 2, several out of town players (who had played ST exclusively on arcade) attended. Afterwards, the sheer amount of hatred levied at CCC2 by the [what I believed to be] decent player caused me to once more raise the issue of what version of ST we should adopt. By this time, new of the Japanese player canceling their EVO money matches and NKI proclaiming DC to be the superior console port had his the forums, and the people that bothered to voice their opinions pretty much all requested that we incorporate the DC format. From mid September till now, the Seattle ST tournaments have been held on DC using TDC2. MvC2 was, and remains on DC–for those that care.
Speed Issues
DC Turbo 3 is the closest thing to arcade factory fastest. But, as an MvC2 player, I must say that there are slight differences. The characters basically move the same on arcade and DC, but the slowdowns during hit-stun is slightly shorter on the DC. When I play on DC for long periods, and then jump on the cabinets rotation, I find that I sometimes input combos a little bit too quickly. Ryus B&B of j.roundhouse, cr.forward, fireball on the arcade will sometimes see me kara-canceling the cr.forward.
I find that I need about 20 minutes of playing time to adjust when jumping from DC to arcade. However, I personally dont have issues with going from the arcade to DC. But old skool players like Beasley who have certain combos ingrained in their muscle memory seem to struggle mightily with this problem. Perhaps if youve been playing on a certain speed for 14 years, you cant consciously force yourself to alter you timing.
So the DC ST on Turbo 3 might feel a touch faster than the arcade version, but its still much, MUCH slower than CCC2 on any stage. Also, the speed does not fluctuate on DC ST, which is a plus.
This is important not just to players, but to organizers as well. As an organizer, you want things to be simple, you want rules to be clear, and you want the event to run itself as much as possible. Some mentioned that Gian and Valle took over 20 minutes before their matches started because they had to constantly restart the game to get on a less buggy stage. Since there is no noticeable speed differences on the DC version, and since the VS mode is actually usable for events (I hated having to reset CCC2 to the menu and loading up arcade mode again in between every match), the DC version is infinitely preferable from an organizers point of view.
Round X ==> Fight!
Regardless of what speeds you have the DC ST set on, the pause in between Round X and Fight will always feel like that of speed 1. Having played on arcade, CCC2, and DC ST, I can attest that the pause is noticeably lengthier. However, contrary to the claims of some, it does not really make it more difficult to adapt to inputting an attack on the first frame.
From my personal experience, there seems to be a window for you to input any special command. Or, if there was already a window in the arcade version, it is actually bigger in the DC ST version. It feels as though I can input Boxers low punch rush up to a quarter of a second prior when the action starts, and it would still register as soon as the fight begins. If I wait a split second from when the game says Fight!, and input my low rush anytime between then and when I would actually be able to move, Boxer seems to start the rush. Someone else can feel free to independently verify this. But if I am not alone, the complaint against DC ST in this regard should not be that it is harder to adapt, but rather, that its too easy to get that first attack down.
Screen Ratio
It is true that the sprites are stretched in the DC version of ST. I actually put up a post on the now defunct SobatCarnival.com (blame Axel Kelly for taking the old forums down because he was embarrassed at all the promises he made to updating the site which he never got around to) showing how DC ST sprites LOOK taller than their arcade counterparts. If you didnt see this, Im hoping that nohoho would back me up. He pledged to pay me $100 to prove this point, and I have yet to see a penny of that money. So this would be the least he could do.
Despite how the sprites appear, the tops and bottoms of the character sprites still overlapped with the exact same points of the backgrounds sprites. And when a stretch was applied to the arcade sprites to match a televisions NTSC signal, the sprites are basically identical. That is to say, while the characters may LOOK taller, theyre relation to the screens edgesand each otherremain the same on arcade and DC ST. Sirlin himself has claimed that from looking at the source codes, DC STs hit boxes are the same as the arcade ones.
Certain players might have to overcome a mental block to deal with this slightly skewed perspective. But as someone has already mentioned in this thread, 10 or so pixels of stretch probably isnt enough of an excuse as to why you lost.
Converters: Mapping and Lag
DC ST operates like the arcade version in that they both have 4 frames of built in lag. CCC2 also has the 4 frames of built in lag, with an additional 4 frames of emulation lag, for a total of 8 frames of lag. If you use a DC PCB in your custom stick, or simply use a DC stick, your inputs will be much like that of the arcade. But most people today have custom sticks with psX/2 connectors. As EVO provides PS2 to DC converters for MvC2 tournaments, I dont see why they wouldnt do it for ST players should ST be held on Dreamcast.
Some have been concerned with whether converters will properly map their custom sticks button layouts correctly. I believe that if you get a Total Control Plus converter, the switch on the side allows you to select whether you wish to map L&R to a PSXs R1&R2, L2&R2, or some other configuration. So, no matter what points are soldered to your psX/2s PCB, youll be able to map your buttons properly in the DC STs button config menu.
One of the complaints that Wizard mentioned about DC ST is the button mapping menu. In CCC2s menu, you can select any move, and press the corresponding button that you wish for the move to be mapped to. In the DC version, you have to highlight the move, then press left/right and scroll to the input that you want to map it to. If you are a pad player with special preferences, this could take 30 seconds or so. Short, but still annoying. But if you are using the standard layout, this is not a concern. A default switch easily allows the mapping to be reset to the standard configuration.
A concern recently trumpeted by the likes of DSP is that NKI admitted how using a converter MIGHT add a single additional frame of input lag. He argues that since converters sometimes add one frame of lag, we might as well use CCC2 with its 4 frames of lag. That point has been sufficiently dealt with already in this thread.
Dip Switches
Enthusiasts want an experience as close to the arcade experience as possible. Such a sentiment is understandable. NKI has pointed out that by putting the dip switches to the Feb 94 setting, DC STs mechanics are virtually identical to that of the arcade release board from that date. Since there have been no concrete proof that the belief is fallacious, Ill presume that it is the case. Once the dip switches are set, you can save them to your memory card, and they will automatically load (along with all of your other options settings) when the game boots up.
One of the complaints that has recently been brought up is that certain organizers might not know how to set the dip switches. If getting to the menu and setting the switches is the problem, I or someone else could write up simple step by step instructions with screen shots showing how the process is done. Its really not that hard. If you still cant figure it out, or if you cant find a copy of TDC2, Im willing to copy the file for anyone who sends me a VMU along with a self addressed postage-paid padded mailer.
Holy shit! This is possibly the longest post I’ve ever made in any forum.
Continued, had to double post because I’m a blabbermouth.
In Review
CCC2 has the following flaws:
- Audio and minor emulation errors.
- Bugs that render Training and–more importantly–VS mode unusable.
- Runs at a high speed, and speed is variable on certain stages, forcing restarts to select stages when not in VS mode. This is a major strike for organizers.
- 4 MORE frames of input lag. Coupled with dropped frames, this can make the experiences akin to gambling. This is a major strike for competitive gamers.
- Buttons get randomly remapped during a match. I?ve never personally verified it, but it would be catastrophic if it were true.
- Random glitches. Our tournaments on CCC2 last year were fairly casual, as we were developing a scene. Whenever we saw shenanigans, we?d just laugh and play on. If I were playing for $5000 and something like this happened, I wouldn?t blame my opponent for wanting to break shit.
DC ST has the following flaws:
- Slightly faster than the arcade, though significantly slower than CCC2, and far more consistent.
- A pause between ?Round X? and ?Fight!?, which can throw off people accustomed to the arcade if they haven?t put in half an hour or so of warm-ups. It also makes it easier to input the first attack?which can be seen as a bad thing.
- Screen ratio is different, so sprites are vertically stretched by a few pixels. It threw me off my mental game when I first took the game up. However, once I accepted that the hit boxes and stage width were actually the same, it was a moot point.
- Button config window takes longer than CCC2. This can be a hassle for organizers if many people want non-standard layouts. However, I can?t imagine that this would burn up more time throughout the duration of an event than re-picking stages.
- Converters MAY add one frame of lag. This is infinitely preferable to CCC2?s lag, and can be completely circumvented by use of a DC PCB/stick.
-Dip switches menu can be confusing the first time, and the save file might be hard to obtain. If an organizer doesn?t want to do the work of setting up the dip switches for each setup, it?s not hard to have the save file ready ahead of time, and leave a VMU plugged into each DC. If you are unable to acquire the save file, someone in the community (like myself) would be willing to help you out. This is probably the second biggest strike against DC ST, as I have yet to really address the biggest problem with DC ST.
Quite possibly the biggest problem with holding ST on the Dreamcast format is the Dreamcast itself. DSP has touched on this point at the beginning of this thread, but I wish to further articulate it. The Dreamcast is just shy of hitting its 9th anniversary, and it has not aged well. Controller ports die (and not everyone has the means to replace the transistors), the disc spinning mechanism dies (good luck finding replacement parts), and laser dies (good luck not getting exposed to toxins while digging in there), and a whole host of other issues arise when dealing with this platform. Dreamcasts die during EVO every year, and they fail with semi-consistency at Preppy?s house (he?s got like 10 of them stocked). It?s simply hard to rely on them.
I love MvC2, and I love Mega Man (Cannon Spike!), but that love does not blind me to the fact that the Dreamcast is not a kind platform to gamers. The EVO staff no doubt has a fleet of Dreamcasts at their disposal to run MvC2, so there will be no issue with having the hardware to hold the tournament itself. But that?s not the issue.
While I personally believe that the DC version of ST plays closest to the arcade version out of all ports, like all ports, there are nuanced differences. So I would expect that everyone who wants to play in the ST tournament at EVO would want to get in some training time with the game before hand. That is to say, rather than trust the arcade or CCC2 versions for all their months of warm-up games. And this is without question, far more difficult to achieve on the DC than it is on PS2. Not impossible, or even hard, but no one can deny that it?s harder. You have to actually want to play ST at the highest level to want to get yourself a Dreamcast, converter (or DC stick), download Grand Master Challenge or TDC2, and get a VMU. The investment is grand, but worthwhile for a hardcore player. The question remains, is it worth it? Even from an organizer?s perspective, it?s questionable.
Despite all of its flaws (I find the game play to be inferior in every way to DC ST), CCC2 has the advantage of being accessible. Don?t knock it, as this single point is a HUGE benefit when you take into account the big picture. Quite possibly enough to overcome all of its other shortcomings. Being on the PS2, with the installed player base that Sony has cultivated over the last 7.5 years, almost anyone can enter into the competitive scene (at least in their mind) with the minimal investment of $20 for a copy of CCC2.
It is in the interest of the organizer to draw from the largest fan base possible. Promoting the latest games (or latest ports of a game) serve that end. This also establishes a rapport with publishers, as they have a need to see their latest products promoted. All collectible card game companies stress that the competitive decks in any environment should consist of roughly 75% cards from the latest expansion, 20% from the previous expansion, and 5% from older sets and promotional inserts. The reason is that people should want to buy the newest cards. The newer cards should also be more powerful to make it easier for new player to enter into the fan base; since they would not need to buy a ton of old cards.
Being the readily available port is not that big of a deal to existing hardcore player with a vested interest in the scene. Someone who would have traveled across the country to play in an ST tournament probably would have made the trip regardless of whether it was DC ST or CCC2. As much as DSP claims to have a life, he posts far too much for a socially well-adjusted individual. I am fairly certain that he?d attend EVO regardless of which version was being used.
However, by using a more attainable port of ST, organizer can hope to garner more interest from casual fans. ST is a simple game (when compared to MvC2 or VF), and there exists the possibility that the turnout for ST would see a bump due to the number of players who think that they have a shot at making some noise because their aunt picked up a copy of CCC2 for them from the bargain bin. I am sure that players of other games would not mind entering the ST tournament if they had played a little bit of CCC2 on the side in the months leading up to EVO.
With CCC2, there is a greater chance for the ST community to grow, since more people could acquire the game and get into the scene. The counter argument to this would be that STHD is coming out, and the carryover from CCC2 to STHD would not be substantially greater than that of DC ST (for one year) to STHD.
In conclusion, it is my belief that DC ST is the superior game. For both the hardcore players and organizers alike, DC ST is the way to go. But if the EVO staff is aiming to make the ST tournament more accessible in an attempt to enlarge the community while possibly attracting some young blood, CCC2 is probably the better choice. So, it’s a balancing act. Should EVO serve the interest of the hardcore players more, or the development of the ST community?
That’s it. The end of my exegesis. Bring on the red cubes.
someone make a GG thread. dsp inadvertently brought about the best idea for replacing HD remix:tup:
Fine, want arcade ST? Real simple. It’s called a modded XBox.
Emulate ST at full (and even MORE than full) speed.
Converters are available, though mostly for Sony PCBs, meaning customs are the way to go. Either those, or the SFAC sticks (don’t bitch about those, either. Even stock, they’re alright).
So, why not? It’s simple to do, needing only a game and a proper save, and maybe a PC and router. Would kill every last bit of bitching about the ports.
It has lag on the XBox emulated version, at least from my experience, most of the EMU games do, even Super Mario. = )
Oh yeah, and modded Xboxes are gray market/illegal technically. SO I doubt EVO is going to want to use these which is why they also have to have “real” versions of ST for DC, and not boots.
Return of Shiki tried this with Breaker’s Revenge at FRXI…didn’t go to well
It’s a nitpick but isn’t it the ROM itself that’s illegal and not the xbox mod? it doesn’t change the stance in anyway, but I’m curious.
Some $$$ matches against Seattle ST players at Evo? :razz:
Better make sure you specify arcade only. =)
I second this notion. lets see all these vocal seattle players step up. its great to make monster posts, but until you prove you are good, your opinion doesn’t mean shit.
also to the fucker who says I have no life - get your facts straight, asshole. I hadn’t posted since last EVO until only a few weeks ago. its now tournament season, and with SBO quals right around the corner, I decided to start again for a bit. don’t fucking talk about me like you know me, I don’t take disrespect very well. plus your entire “epic post” could have been summed up in one sentence - “I am a scrub who nobody knows, and I believe everything that NKI says, so DC ST is better.” Too bad nobody cares what you have to say.
Pick your battles wisely, pal.
I’m ALL for ST Arcade version here, but you do not need to be good at the game on a competitive level to understand the inner workings of the engine. Some people are god at one thing or the other. Ever wonder why emulation authors (people who have ot dechiper the inner workings of a game - or combo video makers) DONT place high at Evo, if at all?
I’d appreciate if you’d just stick to the questions at hand rather than calling out credientials Phil thanks. <3
BTW to whomever mentioned XBOX ST as a viable option: We tried this for all the SNK games at Final Round. It was unplayable and lagged like crazy and we actually used this for the SNK portion of the tourney. Now we know, but it’s no ta viable option.
Sabin is always the voice of reason. :encore:
I specify anything other than CCC2. :razz:
You specify Japanese sticks sitting on the floor? LOL
Sabin: That’s the thing, though…a lot of people bringing up these emulated things must be oblivious to lag, because it took me about 5 minutes again to figure out that is the case on most emulated stuff anyway. I just think people have so little experience in sensitivity to it that they just assume it is fine.
Now, who’s to say I won’t allow lagbot Xbox in the mystery tournament? = P