put in EX3 for STs spot lol.
Or maybe a more serious suggestion ( though I’d support ex3 lol) might be hyper fighting on either CCC1, SF2C, or possibly AE.
HF is no bueno on ccc1 or ps1
facepalm
for the love of ass!
just use the mother f*cking AE!!! :annoy:
or Hyper Alpha?
I think that NKI and DSP both have some valid points.
On one hand, I’ll buy that DC ST w/ dip switch settings is probably the “best”(aka closest to arcade) version of ST on consoles. And not just because NKI says so, but mainly because the Seattle crowd has been playing it a lot over the past year. If there were a ton of major issues, I’m sure someone would’ve noticed. They’ve also uploaded a ton of their matches up on here, and while I wasn’t looking for oddities, I don’t remember seeing any.
On the other hand, I think DSP is right about the DC version being a logistical nightmare. For starters, I tried asking in the thread when this was first announced if converters would be provided at Evo and I never got an answer. So, I ordered a couple off of play asia, but I haven’t had a chance to test them out yet. I know that my custom stick is wired a little weird, so if it doesn’t work right then I guess I’ll have to get it fixed before Evo. But I doubt most people will be as pro-active as I am. Secondly, are we going to use Toodles hacked version? I doubt it, since that sounds about as legit to me as using Final Burn. Regardless, I predict that keeping the systems on the correct settings is going to be awkward at best. And if we’re not using Toodles version, then control config is probably also going to be awkward.
So, while DC ST might be the best console version in theory, I’m not entirely sold on it being the best version to run at something as large as Evo.
I disagree with this sentiment for the following reasons:
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If this were the case, there wouldn’t have been a ton of bitching last year.
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I believe that almost nobody will practice heavily on CCC2 *or *DC ST before Evo.
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If you can adjust to input lag with practice, then you could also adjust to a stretched screen and weird round starts with practice. And in fact, that adjustment would probably be easier to do.
From my perspective, if we’re going to use the DC version, then we need to make sure that there are knowledgeable people dutifully running each station(for settings). We also need to get some info early on about what converters will be provided(if any) and how your stick needs to be wired to work with those. If that happens, then sure, the DC version could work fine. But, to be honest, I expect a bit of chaos with it.
Running arcade(Jap or American or Supergun) would obviously be the best. A close second, IMO, would be the version of Final Burn that GGPO uses, since that’s what most people are actually practicing on. After that, I honestly think it’s a bit of a toss up between DC ST, CCC2, and AE(Kapcore version with ST chars only). They all have some serious up and down sides to them, IMO.
If this really is ST’s last hurrah, then letting us old men play the arcade version sure would be a cool way to go out with a bang :wgrin:
Stop posting.
Hah, and people complained about GG being a pain in the ass to run with all the versions and stuff.
That said, I want to see ST go through anyways, because after this, it’s HDRemix. ST needs a last bit of love.
That’s what I was talking about. Also it was ridiculously hard to get it to come out as a reversal, for whatever reason. I kept getting DP instead of Super. I would have thrown the CD out the window if it wasn’t my friend’s copy. PS1 ST is a piece of shit.
There wasn’t a “ton of bitching” last year. CCC2 was played at every EVO qualifier besides MWC/Final Round, and there was zero bitching about input lag. That’s right, I know because I was at EVERY SINGLE qualifier. I’m pretty sure if there was some terrible fiasco, I would have noticed players going into epileptic seizures about the version being shit. If anything, the major gripe last year was having to restart the game numerous times to get off of T.Hawk’s godforsakenly laggy stage. Fuck, it was taking so long to get off it at Evo East finals that Seth and I said fuck it and played anyway. I think most players were relieved that we had a version of console ST who’s gameplay was exactly the same as arcade ST - but at the same time, frustrated that the speed was so random and slowdown existed depending on what stage you were on.
I’m honestly tired of the misconception that because a handful of people post, and then the concept “catches on” after the fact, that there was a “ton of bitching.” Let’s get facts straight. A few players such as Jason Wilson and NKI were suspecting that there was input lag pre-EVO World, but it wasn’t until after the fact that NKI did his now infamous “LED light test” to supposedly prove how bad the problem was. During EVO World, supposedly Gian said he didn’t want to money match anyone on this version of ST. Considering that input lag issues hadn’t been proven, I am willing to bet this was because of the speed variation issues that were so blatantly obvious.
This seems to be the pattern with console ST - we play a version all year with little complaints, we finally get to EVO World, people lose/the Japanese complain, and then all of a sudden that version of ST becomes the scapegoat. Bullshit. If you had from November 2006 to August 2007 to practice a version, there is no excuse if you aren’t used to it by then. I lost at EVO World because I was playing sloppy and was over tired, and because Graham Wolfe is a fucking beast. Not because of input lag, slowdown, or any other bullshit claim. HOWEVER, at the same time I am willing to admit that having to play a different version of ST every single year is a massive detriment to the community. If I hadn’t attended every single EVO qualifier last year, there would have been no way I would have been used to the issues that CCC2 has, and I wouldn’t have done nearly as well as I did. The common gamer doesn’t have time to travel across the country multiple times to extensively playtest a version of ST within a relatively short period of time, and neither does anyone with a life. I spent literally ALL of my vacation time last year on Street Fighter - and fuck if I’ll ever do that again. If there were one consistent version of ST being played over time, at least you could take your time in getting used to it and adapting.
But this “new version every year” shit? Unacceptable and ridiculous. I don’t understand how having 5 different versions of a game in 5 years can be recognized as any sort of “success” in finding an acceptable version of console ST. Try failing that many times in the real business world and see how long you are employed. Just cancel the fucking thing.
That’s my title dude!
Stop being bitches and just go with the GBA version for the love of fuck.
I’m sorry, did you reply to the wrong person? I’m not arguing anything in the post you quoted other than to state that a tournament on a different version is never meaningless, until you try to relate its placings to a version not being played. Whats the problem here?
i thought dsp wasn’t posting anymore after page 3
BAITED?!??!?!?!?!!
Best ever is some people posting in this thread who haven’t played ST much EXCEPT for the console versions.
I also like the “let’s go to the computer emulator” comment. Wow. Yeah, let’s all find optimum PCs and laptops and I am sure EVERYONE is playing ST on GGPO that is entering tournaments and have ample sticks and all the drivers are set up, etc. Oh brother.
Now after all that nonsense. When SFII came out on SNES, no one complained. We all agree it is the console version, and accept it as such. Heck, people play SSF2 on SNES on Zbattle still and it’s accepted that is just a SNES version. WHen it comes to ST, the main reason for the complaints is BECAUSE we have to use console, and everything is in disarray BECAUSE it’s not exactly like the arcade.
New flash to everyone. There is nothing EXACT about any version of any fighting game on any home system unless you are counting Neo Geo. And even then, some things in SVC Chaos are “slightly” off, but you can argue all day about that.
CVS2, speed. MVC2, speed, Anakaris stuff, other things I don’t know.
3s-Speed and a bunch of random stuff I don’t know about it.
ST-SPEED in EVERY version. Heck, did everyone forget even the US arcade version and Japanese arcade versions don’t run on the same speeds either?
Each version of ST is going to have issues.
Comments about EVO not being able to run ST on DC? They ran it on DC in 2004, no dipswitch settings, (I got paused on in one tournament match, and I died to random redizzies, so I was not happy. I also swore (since I was using Vega) that there were issues with the charge moves with him (flip kick going off the wall instead or something), but I don’t really count DC much since it’s a freaking console game. Heck, Watson LOST to Justin in that tournament, and there were all these Justin Wong fans all over the place about how the “throne” has changed, blah blah, etc.) but the point is, EVo can run DC ST fine. It’s been done before.
All the versions are different. ST with dipswitches off is playable, just has random crap happening, timing is off, etc. It’s picking your poison with these games, which is precisely why running ST on any console format now is a logisitical nightmare. Cancel it, and just wait for HD Remix. WHen that comes out, REGARDLESS of anything wacky in the game, it WILL become the norm BECAUSE it is console SPECIFIC, and no one can complain about Udon artwork not reacting correctly like in the arcade.
Here are the versions of ST out there:
ST DC (crazy random dizzies, speed is more like the Japanese arcade board, timing on moves is slightly different, swear there are charge issues on Vega things, with dipswitches on I am not sure exactly what changes.
ST PS1 (Watson stuff mentioned, Chun-Li Up Kicks slow down (I lost to a Japanese player because Chun was playing so differently, and this is exactly why I stopped using Chun in the tournament against people immediately after), and Speed.
ST Saturn (Plays like the PS1, SEVERE slowdown on certain stages, especially Ryu, better reactions than PS1, but a poor version)
3DO (This is one crazy version, but I like it because of the unpredictability)
GBA (It’s a handheld, let’s no go there)
Japanese Arcade (1, 2, 3, 4 speed settings)
USA Arcade (0, 1, 2, 3 speed settings)
ST PS2 (Worst version to play against people. In Versus Mode, certain joysticks STOP working, which no one has brought up yet, plus the latency thing which if you’ve PLAYED arcade enough, you could figure out in about 5 minutes. If you have NOT played arcade side by side, you won’t notice so much. Slowdown on Stages, etc
XBOX ST (No one has brought this one into the mix yet. Same issues as PS2?)
So when it comes down to it, you pick your poison. Maybe I’ll play the XBOX version today for fun.
In Vegas, before the tourney started, I talked to numerous top players (Shirts, Valle, Cole, afro, etc), and they all agreed that there was something wrong with CCC2.
Actually Gian and Nuki both independently came to me and specifically said the game has input lag. That’s when it all clicked in my head (why I couldn’t get reversals at all, why I couldn’t even do basic combos consistently), and that’s what set off my post-Evo tirade.
Let me break it down for you, because this is the critical point that you still aren’t getting.
In 2004, we thought that the DC version sucked. Now we know that it’s actually quite good. That is progress.
In 2005, we thought that the PS1 version was playable. Now we know it sucks. That is progress.
In 2006, we thought AE was at least a decent game. Now we know it is garbage. That is progress.
In 2007, we didn’t know that CCC2 had input lag. Now we know. That is progress.
Yeah, it was an ugly road to take, but the end result is that we have thoroughly tested each of those versions, and now we can say with confidence which ones are bad and which ones are good.
I consider that a good step forward, as painful as it was.
What exactly are these “crazy random dizzies” and “charge issues”?
On a similar note, when I was practicing CCC2 for Evo last year, there were two separate occasions where my buttons spontaneously remapped themselves in the middle of a round. I went into button config, and sure enough, the buttons were not mapped the same way they were at the beginning of the match, even though I never so much as paused the game. :bluu:
NKI, Sirlin stated that you had played the game early and that you had no issues with CCC2 to begin with, and that is why I thought it would be funny when Shirts told you that, because honestly I had no idea why you couldn’t see that from the getgo. Maybe he should not have said that, but Sirlin gave us the impression that since you said it was fine, it was fine, and we were losing our minds, which we knew was not the case. It was obvious there were issues.
Crazy random dizzies: Ryu stuff in the tournament. Somehow dizzied on two moves around the 70 second time, thrown hit again, and redizzied. I don’t know the exact sequence, but a couple of people were watching, and were like, 'WTF?" I was shocked, even the guy playing me had no idea what just happened.
Vega issues: Someone mentioned this in the C3 Results thread. Vega not doing charge moves properly, something about “execution” possibly, but that happened to me as well. Mind you, I have NEVER played with dipswitches changed, so I have not idea if this affects anything, but it was eerily similar to the AE Vega charge issues.
About this:
In 2004, we thought that the DC version sucked. Now we know that it’s actually quite good. That is progress.
In 2005, we thought that the PS1 version was playable. Now we know it sucks. That is progress.
In 2006, we thought AE was at least a decent game. Now we know it is garbage. That is progress.
In 2007, we didn’t know that CCC2 had input lag. Now we know. That is progress.
Who is “we”, because honestly “we” should have realized that stuff from the beginning. Not sure what the issues were there, but again, and I stress this, it does not take that long for players to go through those games to figure out the stuff wrong with them, but if it is taken as “we” being the ultimate factor in decision making, then you need to revisit that a tad, because there were people that knew those games had issues from the beginning as well.
Yes, progress has been made, but sometimes, you need so sitdown and think about the proper comparison and contrasting that needs to be utilized in order for the game to be deemed playable on all accounts. I’m sure people who were/are ST players/“game testers” played these, but you need specialists who played the arcade game against people on a weekly basis to see these things, and I am not sure how many people actually did/do that nowadays.
Why not just skip Super Turbo (or make it a side game) and give Guilty Gear Accent Core the slot? I’m not trying to be funny here. We spent months debating the whole Guilty Gear issue and now it’s drawing ridiculous numbers at monthlies and regionals, proving its worth. Super Turbo is simply not acceptable to all parties and running on Dreamcast, while the game may be playable, is still a logistical nightmare. Give the GG masses the game they’re pushing for. Skip the game that no one can agree on. STHD will come, the old heads and new blood will come together for a new game played old school and it’s all win/win.
I agree. Guilty Gear (even with the issues with the players from last year) is more deserving of the last spot. Especially with a great US port currently available. Just gonna be wasting time and resources at this point with the DC version of the game. Having to find Japanese copies of the game, converter issues, people finding new crap to complain about because of the nature of the game…bleh. I thought it would be cool to have DC ST as one last hurrah for old school SF…but this is just ridiculous. Fuck ST. It’s a fun game…but fuck it. It’s better off as a side tourney. All putting this in the spotlight is gonna do is give people more to complain about.
We’re putting a huge game like GG to the side so we can see the DSP vs. NKI cage match…and they can’t even decide which cage to fight in. Even if the DC version somehow becomes proven to be the worst version in history…I would personally prefer it if everyone just closed their eyes and went “it’ll just be ok”. That would be a lot better IMO. There’s no doubt that SF HD remix will be better at this point. This is too much.
I stated this months ago. Cancel ST, allow Guilty Gear in, since it is a huge, popular game amongst the crowd. I think it’s more of an issue with how the community was at the LAST EVO, but yes, it would make the most sense, and bring in more heads.
Guilty Gear is a NEW game too, with people playing.
Bring back GG and Cigar Bob bring his ST cab for USA vs Japan! 5on5 :nunchuck:
I noticed this on arcade ST as well. Claw doesn’t necessarily have to reach the wall to Izuna drop or dive. He literally bounces off the char in the air and wall dives. So yeah, nothing new there.
RC is a beatable glitch. While good and clutch in certain situations, it isn’t the end all be all glitch.