Why the fuck you niggas whining about running ST dc tourneys, when the whole fucking lot of you ain’t running it.
Also, why you bitching about 1 frame of lag with DC+converter, when CCC2 has 4 frames of lag (horribly impossible to reversal, I can reversal 99% of time on arcade/GGPO, but I couldn’t fucking land a single reversal at this past Evo. Awesome, let’s use 4 frame lag instead of 1 frame lag.
Jesus, please learn how to use quotes…
If you feel this is the most important topic at hand, I’ll address this first.
We abandoned the DC version because we thought that the hit-boxes were skewed (due to the slightly different resolution). We were wrong. There is absolutely no evidence to show that the hit-boxes are different. If you disagree, PROVE IT.
I supported the PS1 version back in 2005 because back then (before we knew what we now know), it seemed like a really good version. Now we know that it is not a really good version, and that indeed the DC version is the best. If you disagree, PROVE IT.
And while you’re at it, please also prove that supers don’t come out in the PS1 version.
Yet you failed to notice anything wrong with CCC2, which is one of the most blatantly flawed ports of ST to date. Congratulations on destroying your own credibility…
Obviously you need to have the save file, and it is easily available via TDC Final v2. The whole process is quite easy:
Google “TDC Final v2”.
Download and burn image.
Fire up the game, and transfer the save file to your memory card.
I sincerely hope you are capable of handling that…
YES. That’s my whole point…:bluu:
You are absolutely nuts if you think a 10-pixel horizontal squish translates into a height difference of an INCH. Maybe if you’re playing on a 6 foot projector or something…
As I said before, you really should take your own advice.
I have put hundreds of hours of actual gameplay into the DC version, including extended sessions (several hours long) with multiple top players (Choi, Cole, JSJ, etc). We are not having any of your reported problems.
And I find it hilarious that you haven’t even mentioned the one difference that actually matters in the DC version (the slowdown during “Round 1/2/3, FIGHT!”).
Really? I didn’t? Huh…that’s funny…'cause actually, I did test the right side of the stage, and I did test multiple stages.
If you had actually taken the time to test it yourself, you would’ve seen that it behaves the same way. But we all know that you don’t care for “testing stuff out” or “facts” or any of that nonsense.
SHOW ME WHERE YOU GOT THOSE NUMBERS.
One frame of input lag is undetectable by practically everyone. You didn’t even know that DC converters had one frame of lag until I TOLD YOU. :bluu:
Because it is rather hard to reproduce (especially by myself, controlling both characters), and I don’t feel it’s worth the time to capture. Computer-controlled Fei Long will occasionally cancel cr.Short into Rekkas, but I’m not going to sit there and play against computer Fei for 10 hours waiting for him to do it, because I think my credibility is good enough to where you can just take my word for it, especially considering how trivial this point is.
I too want to settle on one version of ST, which is exactly why I bother devoting countless hours to this kind of research. (Or as you call it, “fucking you in the ass”.)
There were mistakes made along the way, sure, but now we know: the DC version is the best. Not perfect, but the best, and suitable for tournament play.
Not sure how you missed this one, but it clearly says: “The size of the screen is slightly off (it’s a little too narrow), making the character sizes appear to be slightly too thin.”
There is no evidence to support this. If you can prove that the hit-boxes do get distorted, please, prove it.
Each year, Evo staff came to me and asked what version should be used, and I did my best to determine that.
Congratulations on once again having absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.
Nick - You are my hero. Lets make man babies. No homo.
there is a place between your cheeks and its in the shape of an O
I’m happy you replied because I don’t have to address anything but the following (you made my life easy!):
You just admitted that you’ve backed every single version of ST that we’ve played on console, and yet here we are again playing another different version, because you’re again saying that last year’s is crap. Well here I am calling you on your bullshit. If 3s, CvS2, and MvC2 can all agree on a console version, ST should be able to as well. I have zero confidence that DC ST will be accepted. Why? Because it’s already GUARANTEED that next year STHD will be used. It was supposed to be used this year, and now that it’s not ready, EVO again defaults to your decision. WHY? Since 2004 you have apparently playtested every version of ST to death, yet your conclusions every single year hinder the community rather than help it. I am tired of buying new equipment and adjusting to a new conversion of the game because you “playtested it to death” and found some minor flaws.
Do you not see the irony of this entire thread? You fell into my trap, exactly as predicted. I PLAYTESTED DC ST AND FOUND MINOR FLAWS JUST AS YOU DID WITH EVERY OTHER VERSION OF ST, AND NOW YOU ARE ARGUING WITH ME THAT IT SHOULD BE PLAYED! So when I playtest something and find flaws, you dismiss them…but when NKI finds them, we must abandon that version! Input lag is unacceptable, but random backdrops without touching a wall, stretched sprites (and possibly hitboxes), whiffed moves, and delay when the game says FIGHT! (deliberately left out because the PS1 version is much worse) are all great for competitive play, according to NKI. Sorry, but I disagree with you there.
Bottom line: you have been playtesting ST versions for a minimum of 4 years and we are back to the drawing board, back to the beginning, a version of ST that has discrepancies that nobody likes. We would all accept these, except for the fact that it’s such a massive pain in the ass to play this version of ST because of converters, loading game saves, loading dip switches, and keeping those dip switches active without accidentally resetting the console. Plus some people can’t even play this version with their stick since there are no DC converters that map the L buttons. Bullshit. I will no longer follow what NKI says and I pray to god that nobody else does either. Let’s all think for ourselves and stop following the pied piper of ST…we’ve had enough of a clusterfuck already.
EDIT: this WILL be my last post in this thread, because I have nothing left to say. I no longer have faith in anything NKI has to say because it seems he’s more interested in being the authority on console ST than doing what is best for the ST community as a whole.
Will this issue come to a head at some point?
Well all I have to say is this:
we’ll do it live…We’ll do it LIVE…FUCK IT!
Difference being, the flaws that I found actually do exist, whereas yours are complete fabrications.
Negative. We have made huge progress since 4 years ago. Back then, we had no idea what differences were in what versions. Now we know.
Why do you fail to realize this?
Glad to see this thread end exactly as I predicted it would.
Thanks for taking the bait again. Your major issue with me is that I say I won’t post again, well here goes.
You claim the flaws I witnessed are complete fabrications, well go and talk to the people who are backing me. It’s not just about gameplay…flaws also include joysticks, converters, dipswitch settings and the like. There is nothing you can do to make this version of ST accessible to the masses, simply because DC is now an extinct console that only MvC2 players own (and fewer every year at that). You also can’t prove that the wall-less Izuna drop happens on arcade. If you can’t prove it, you can’t disprove that it is a DC issue, so why even comment? Because the common gamer takes your word for it? Not anymore.
Your so-called “huge progress” has brought us back to the same version people hated in 2004. Your supposed dipswitch settings only fix a few minor flaws with reversals and not major gameplay differences. So what if we didn’t know gameplay differences back then? IGNORANCE IS BLISS. If every other fucking game can settle on a sub-par version that is different from arcade, so can ST. And god help us all, but it is not in the best interests of the community to use DC ST which few people own, few people have a game save for, few people have a working converter for, and NEXT TO NOBODY is practicing on.
You want to debate further? We’ll do it LIVE.
I wonder if sending this thread to Capcom would make them/BackBone buckle down (even further?) and get STHD released…?
LOL SRK Drama. Here’s hoping for a DSP vs NKI cage match at EVO this year :tup:
I definitely agree with Phil about the converter and stick issue. My fierce/rh buttons are mapped to R1/L1 respectively. With a converter, they’re both mapped to the same trigger, giving me two of the same button. It’s fun trying to track down another stick come tournament time. It’s even more fun when I’m used to playing on an octo stick and I can only find square or circles and my entire game is off.
My match with DSP is proof of that. Rather than flip kicks, I was walldiving and other such nonsense. I mean, you could argue that it’s completely my own execution issue, which I’d agree with. But that also backs up exactly what DSP is saying about people not being prepared for this version for one reason or another. Including not being able to use their own stick which is designed to compensate for the way they play.
Edit: To further back that up, my second match at C3 was against a pad player. The people running Marvel casuals weren’t about to give up their converters for a tournament match, so he got stuck using a stick. A pad player trying to play on a stick? Get the fuck out of here.
I tried to make it idiot proof, and I guess I failed.
Just in case there is any confusion, after you boot the disc:
Click on the little picture of a VMU in the lower left corner
Click on the Super Turbo logo
Select the VMU you want to save file saved to.
That’s it. Everything. You get da English language and the dipswitches set to arcade, just boot up and play.
(Someone used it in a tourney? Cool.:smokin:)
DSP alls i have to say is either prove NKI wrong on everything he has said or shut up. your whining about evo switching st versions is stupid because there was a reason already stated to why it was changed. also most of your “glitches” that you pointed out dont seem to be true. i would love to see the video proof of all your claims.
Don’t pay attention to Phil. He’s just upset that his opinion is worthless and he means nothing to the SF community anymore. He’s no “pro player”, he’s not even a top player in his chosen game, no matter what he says. It’s been proven for years that dude can’t see the real top players unless he’s playing some bastardized version of the game (AE, PS1 ST, CCC2). DSP, I liked you a lot better when you didn’t post at all. Your shit makes my head hurt. There is no “ST community”, the top players don’t even play the game until tournament time anyway and they’re still the same group of players it’s been for the past 14 years. Besides, this is essentially a dead game until HD comes out. I don’t even know why there’s a big stink over this anyway…
The converters linked on the first page of the post have two settings. One covers the the most common setting, four face buttons, R1/R2; the second covers four face buttons, R1/L1. It would work fine for you.
Yeah, I was just gonna mentioned how it has R1/L1 and R2/L2 modes. The only thing you might would have to change would be the placement of the buttons. IE if R1 is kick and its on the top row of your stick.
this guy has almost 1000 converters apparently.
all things aside, who cares what the “tournament standard” of ST will be after STHD comes out?
I haven’t witnessed anyone stupid ignorant enough to back you with anything more than “I agree. I don’t want to switch around either anymore, DSP”. Has anyone backed up anything you’ve said with evidence?
All I have to say is that this point will be comepletely invalid very soon. Proof is on the way. And the common gamer not taking NKI’s word for it? Bullshit. The vast majority take his word for it because he doesn’t spew out absolute BULLSHIT when he puts his hands to the keyboard. He researches, gathers evidence to back up all of his points, then posts the information he gathered. Unlike you, who seems to think that a couple hours of playing on a game that may or may not have the right dipswitch settings on because the DC was reset several times without giving any actual information besides “I jumped in with Fei-long’s fierce and completely whiffed through Ryu’s head”. Why don’t you prove that you didn’t simply mis-time the jump in? Try it a couple more times from different lengths/heights. It should take less than a minute to test. Is this something that doesn’t happen in the arcade? Honda can j.forward Dhalsim out of Sim’s super at any point during it if at the right height, because honda’s hitboxes are fucked up. This is hard to reproduce sometimes, but it happens. Until you prove otherwise, I’m assuming it was your mistake.
There are a few gameplay differences that are quite understated in what the dipswitches change. Also, I’d like to hear (and see proof) of exactly what all these differences are in major gameplay between arcade and DC. All you’ve done is say “I noticed differences almost immediately” without any details or evidence WHATSOEVER. If you ever hope to make a convincing argument, don’t type with your forehead.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z293/Kuenai_Customs/gootecks.gif
If you’re so inept that it’s this difficult to get the right equipment, then don’t play it, don’t fight it, just wait until HD remix comes out. I said I’m not dropping several hundred dollars on new equipment just for one game. I am, however, supporting it when I buy it online for my friend and make 360 sticks for it. No p360s, because I don’t like the small diagonals, but even some great players like John Choi seem to.
THEN WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING SO HARD??? Why continue to support CCC2? The majority of the collective ST community has settled down on the Dreamcast for ST until HD remix comes out, which we will have to adapt to yet again.
Stop repeatedly trying to disprove NKI while ignoring every bit of proof thrown back in your face. Since facts seem to be falling on deaf ears here, I’ll try to appeal to your sense of logic (unsupported, baseless claims that make little sense): Every time you post on SRK, god kills a kitten. Please, for the sake of the kittens, shut up until you can argue with evidence to support your baseless claims. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff, dumbass.
The reason ST is so hard to port is because even internally, the code is a mess and arcane…even the arcade version is inconsistent with itself with how shit behaves… there are tons of glitches and weirdness in even the arcade ST. You can jump out of a FAB from Gief, he will be invincible and slam an empty armful down to the ground, the whole time you are trying to hit him, and then you die and see the rising sun…IN THE ARCADE. So any zany shit you can do on console, doesn’t mean it’s not on arcade unless you can reliably recreate it and point it out as a difference that happens with any frequency. As far as I know the frame data is exactly the same.
Secondly, we have been playing ST on DC for tournaments as well as on Japanese arcade cabinet here in Seattle and there are virtually no differences between the two, it’s MUCH less different between ST on Arcade and DC than between ST on Arcade with nice sticks and ST on arcade with slightly less nice sticks.
ST on DC is perfectly fine for tournament play, there is not one single documented difference between arcade and DC that actually affects gameplay at a competitive level, and I am SUPER picky about that shit.
Yeah, I didn’t see that. That’s cool, now that I know. But I’ve decided I’m done with ST until HD comes out and everyone is in agreement on that version.
