Ouch.
NKI :smokin:
I dont have much more to say than ownage.
Good shit Kuenai and NKI.
for shit and giggles i tried the fei long fierce jump in vs ryu’s fireball on arcade ST, xbox AE, and DC ST…and guess what…it whiffs on all three. . lol jump in roundhouse is better lol
the only way to make him happy is if we get superguns for evo. hell it wouldnt be a bad idea since now there is a ps1->jamma adapter with no lag.
Why is NKI such a beast?
because he knows what hes talking about. unlike some people around here 
nki is handsome no homo.
this WILL be my last post on the subject.
on further testing: found that old fei long jumping fierce is better than new fei long’s.
if you watch the animation of his jumpin fierce you will see he throws his arms down afterward. Old fei longs hits when is arms are going down, but new fei longs arms don’t
hit when they go down. i’m guessing with the timing and hitboxes and your location to trying to hit ryu is extremely small if you are new fei long…but it’s easy as pie to hit ryu fireball recovery with a jump in fierce with old fei long.
so sirlin if you are reading…if it’s even plausible…try and see if there are more hit box
differences between old and new and see which one(s) would be better for the HD.
and no…i really don’t expect you to do this.
Yeah Phil, there are other lagless converter solutions out there for the DC besides the Innovation converters, the TC/TCP converters by EMS work just as well as the Innovations, are readily available and are only 20 bucks. For your argument about sticks, most standard arcade home sticks are usually made with the four face buttons along with R1/R2, and if they include L2/L1 are either to the left of the face buttons or the to the right of the R’s. Besides, the most used retail sticks by these guys are either HRAP’s or some variant of them. Which means that the only real problem would be custom sticks, though I’m not saying it doesn’t exist it’s generally hard to find a custom stick that has the standard capcom 6 button layout with L1/L2 instead of the R’s. But again thats one in a thousand, and thats their fault. Which they can always change themselves. If it’s a premade then they can always replace it themselves again or ask the creator to replace it for them.
The funny thing about all this is that all thid really shows is that ST is kinda dumb.
There’ll be drama whether this is a good port or not. ST is a really glitchy game. Lets allow an arcade tournament for this at Evo.
ST is so annoying.
ST isn’t dumb, it’s just that the players of ST demand perfection. Which will never happen, which is why I want a common version adopted, which is what people like NKI and Jason Beasley and his buddy Kuenai have prevented for years.
Kuenai’s quote: "When playing ST on arcade, then moving over to DC, I have noticed NO gameplay differences, and I play this game as much or more than DSP does or any of the ST authorities out there."
Sounds like you suck balls because I played for 2 hours and noticed multiple differences.
"The ONLY difference between arcade ST and DC ST is the size of the characters. No hitboxes are changed, and unless you’re absolutely pathetic and just NEED an excuse to mess up on footsies, then you shouldn’t have a problem adapting to the character difference. Nothing is warped, just stretch ever-so-slightly vertically."
So nothing is warped, yet you need to adjust. Hrm. Sounds like if you need to adjust that hitboxes are warped…if not, the game is drastically changed because things that should hit higher/lower aren’t hitting…
"We have been playing DC ST in Seattle for more than two seasons now, and we have no problems finding Dreamcasts (just find marvel players and check craigslist/ebay!), no problems with converters Look! They still sell virtually lagless converters with multiple Fierce and Roundhouse button configuration options!, and no problems setting dipswitches. Once you set it to the 1994/02/23 dipswitch auto-setting, it saves to your memory card, which loads from port 1 every time you boot up ST from that moment on."
You are the exception to the rule. I just attended a major where 1. none of the ST players were used to playing on DC, 2. nobody owned converters that worked, and 3. dreamcasts were hard to come by. Also, the Total control converters don’t work with sticks mapped to the L buttons. So you just shut out anybody with a custom stick.
"I know that I’m not dropping $400-$500 on an X-Box 360 or PS3 plus peripherals just for ST. Aside from that, did you know how hard/expensive making a custom 360 (also compatible with PS3, since sony’s awesome like that) stick? Did you know that you can’t make a 360 stick with a Perfect 360 in it? There goes the stick of choice for a great many players in the ST community."
So you’re saying you’re not going to play STHD? The next logical choice for ST players and the announced new edition of ST for EVO? So why are you even posting? OH NOES you can’t make a 360 stick with a perfect 360? Good thing that no ST players want a fucking perfect 360 because we all realize how shitty that thing is. No corners on ST = DEATH = you have just proven your scrubness, and I will not address the rest of your post. Except for this:
"How you can use Claw’s izuna drop (which I have never, ever seen personally, as it’s extremely hard to recreate without setting it up) to prove that DC ST is terrible is beyond me."
You’ve never seen the Izuna Drop? Wow. I hope you meant to say “I’ve never seen the DC Izuna Drop glitch.” And if that’s the case, play the game with Chun for a while and you’ll see it. Or else read NKI’s post below which claims it happens on arcade.
OK, done destroying this scrub. Now to move on to bigger fish.
I said: “so much for the whole dipswitch thing being easy.”
NKI’s quote:
"Hold ‘Y’ while going into the Options menu.
Press ‘A’.
Press down.
Press ‘A’.
We could literally train a chimpanzee to do that."
Is this without a memory card? if that is the case, you do realize that the mass majority of the ST community had no idea that you didn’t need a game save, correct? If it isn’t, the problem is that nobody has a DC memory card with this game save, and expecting them to load a code is ridiculous.
I said: “the jumping fp comepletely whiffed” referring to my Fei’s jumping FP whiffing on a Ryu who completely missed a fireball and I jumped over and attacked.
NKI’s quote: "Can you reproduce this? If not, most logical people would chalk it up to “Phil mis-timed his jump-in”."
Can you reproduce your input lag test for CCC2 in real-time in front of me with exact results? Will they match EXACTLY? As in, will the seconds of lag match up perfectly? Because I’m not a scientist, but I guarantee that neither of us could perfectly reproduce jack shit. Unless you show me your tests in real time over and over with the exact same results, you will just have to take my word for it…just like everyone on the planet is taking YOUR word for it with your fucking tests.
NKI’s quote: "Sigh…the one thing you almost got right, and you had to blow it way out of proportion. Yeah, the Dreamcast version displays at a slightly different resolution (which has already been discussed and documented), but this is nothing to scream about. We’re talking about maybe 10 pixels, and it has no known effect on any gameplay. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary…?"
As I stated, 10 pixels can equal an INCH on some TVs. I’m sorry, but being that I am a serious ST player, it threw me off like crazy at C3. I constantly whiffed expecting things to go longer, and they did not. You want proof? Try playing the game instead of saying it’s not a big issue. Sounds to me like you need to play more and test less.
I said: "the punch faced as if it was a crossup, but completely whiffed. dictator landed and got thrown by boxer for free. this seems quite odd but I can’t say for sure that it doesn’t happen in other versions."
NKI said: “It happens in the arcade version, too.” And his sentence linked to a video that was one example of it happening in the arcade version on the left hand of the screen. He didn’t test the right hand of the screen, and he didn’t test different stages. I thought this was our super thorough playtester who saw from every angle and confirmed that things were 100% correct? Also keep in mind this was the one statement where I said “I can’t say for sure it doesn’t happen in other versions” because I wasn’t 100% sure, yet this is the video he posts up as proof…
I said: "people were forced to use lag-inducing converters."
NKI said: "Sorry for repeating myself, but again, your statement above confuses me. You said that you felt nothing was wrong with CCC2 which has 4 frames of input lag, yet you’re worried about 1 frame of input lag from a converter…?"
I thought the issue at hand was input lag? It’s been established that converters can add 1-3 frames of input lag. Maybe I adjusted to the lag from CCC2, but assuming we’re talking about the common gamer - why would we force them to use converters that add lag? My point was that the vast majority of gamers do not use DC-native sticks anymore, and so using converters just adds that lag factor back into the equation. In fact, I saw a few people trying to use those super-old Agetec DC sticks in this tournament (the old school DC players call them Green Goblins due to their green sticks and buttons) and most of them actually swapped out for a PS stick after their first match. They don’t work and they suck ass. They actually opted to us PS2 sticks with lag-inducing converters b/c they are just fucking better. That’s right - THEY WANT LAG OVER SHITTY CONTROLS. So much for your anti-input lag argument.
NKI said: "I’m sorry, I literally LOL’ed when I read that. Do you want to know why people take me seriously but don’t listen to you? Because I actually take the time to back up what I’m saying. Like above, when I said that in the arcade version, Dic’s headstomp vs. Boxer in the corner behaves the same way you described? I didn’t just pull that out of my ass. I tested it in the arcade version, and even made a video so that you could see for yourself. Or like when I said that the DC version outputs at a slightly different resolution? I actually took the time to snap some photos for side-by-side comparison. That way people can see just how “drastic” it is (or in this case, how drastic it isn’t).
By the way, I’m still waiting for your evidence that supers don’t come out in the PS1 version of ST."
People take you seriously because they feel you are the only person who has taken the time to playtest a game. I was actually in that boat until I found out that DC is the version of ST you are backing this year. It’s not just you, it’s Julien Beasley and his buddy Kuenai and anybody else who jumped onto that fucking bandwagon. You guys consistently find flaws with console versions and tell us to tall take a shit onto them. Yet we still don’t have a playable version of ST after all these years, while all the other Capcom games are fine…I see a problem with that and I will speak up when I see problems. You now quote an issue that I said I was not sure existed on arcade or not, but yet you quote it because you seem to have evidence. Notice there is no evidence of a retard Vega backdrop without touching the wall on arcade ST…because playtesting is just like science. Do you know how many times scientists have told us that “BULLSHIT” causes cancer? EVERYTHING causes cancer. That’s science - you can prove that anything causes everything. It doesn’t matter. Bottom line is, we want a consistent version of ST to play and you have fucked us in the ass year after year and we’re sick of it. Please prove me to the contrary.
I said: “someone did a wall dive, chun jumped back and did an attack to stop him from reaching the wall. instead of hitting him, vega kind of froze for a second, and then backdropped her anyway without ever touching the wall. shag got it on camera, a true WTF moment. DC ST at its best!”
NKI said: “As a Chun player, I can tell you that this does happen in the arcade version too. It’s rare, but it happens. ~ So if anyone cares about real, actual, tested, documented differences, please see the ST Wiki, and ignore everything Phil says.”
There is nothing in the wiki describing anything about the vertical stretching of the game on DC to the extent i’ve described it here. In fact it is still to be determined if the hitboxes get stretched or not. Either way, the game is still different from arcade in a drastic way and NKI has no other counter to this besides “it’s not an issue for me.” Well why did they abandon DC ST for PS1 ST at EVO 2005? Hope you have a good answer.
Short version for normal people
I made my long post for the nerds, now it’s time for the short version of my reply:
Well why did they abandon DC ST for PS1 ST at EVO 2005? Hope you have a good answer.
That is all. Keep in mind NKI supported the PS1 version of ST at EVO 2k5 and that is one of the reasons they used it.
Wall. Of. Text.
try using [ quote = name ] and [ / quote ] without the spaces phil
Yeah it is. Sure, it’s a great competitive game, but it’s also buggy as shit.
That’s the main reason ST always has to change systems. Somebody loses to something fucking stupid, they bitch, change systems, repeat.
The reality is that arcade ST is fucking buggy. So why does everyone want an arcade perfect version of a game, when the arcade version isn’t even perfect?
The reality is that there is so much dumb shit in ST, that there’s no end to what people can bitch about. What’s worse is that ALL the players (not just NKI, DSP, or whoever the fuck) like to act like they know all there is to fucking know about Super Turbo, so when anything looks fishy… it must be a porting problem…
No… the game is just dumb to begin with. Enjoy ST when it plays well, but when some dumb shit happens, just live with it. You’re playing a buggy fucking game.
How dare you own all ST players so hard? My balls just shrunk three sizes.
I AGREE with you. The game is buggy. Which is why we need to focus on one version PERIOD and accept its bugs and move on. Which is what has not happened thanks to our glorious authorities on the game. All of the other “big four” games have done so, yet ST is unable to, due to certain parties. Fuck that shit, let’s just accept something as the common ground and play it and stop the chaos.
why cant u just accept the fact that DC st is the best port out to date? and they switched to ps1 st because when they used dc st W/O dipswitches(the menu wasnt known yet) the year before and had problems. THEN after using ps1 ST there was problems. then the menu in DC ST was discovered and we changed back to DC st because with dip switches set the game is the best port.
do you understand now? you just keep whining about things that have been proven wrong or are known already.
also you saying that NKI cant reproduce the ccc2 lag is retarded. i bet you could do it if u had the time to make the setup.
ST is a glitchy game. That sums up the thread. GOGOGO SF HD. They just didn’t make games the same back in the day. :lol:
NKI said himself dipswitches don’t change major gameplay issues. Until my points on DC ST are disproven, dipswitches are irrelevant.
If dipswitches were the issue, are you telling me that it took 4 years to discover them? Nobody knew about them beforehand? I find that hard to believe. If dipswitches were the magical answer, why weren’t we using them for years now instead of using so many other versions of ST?
NKI claims I’m posting useful info about the DC version of ST because I want attention. Maybe his constant cries for a different version of ST every year were HIS cries for attention. Maybe I could sit in front of multiple versions of a game for a week and playtest them to perfection…or maybe I just play the fucking game and accept it. Guess it all depends on your perspective. From the people I met at C3, seems like the common gamer agrees with me. Go figure…
i dont think anybody tried to beat the game 32times with every character including the olds. so finding the dipswitches a while later is very likely to be the case… and he wasnt crying to get different version every year. he was just going with what was thought to be good. except for ccc2. NKI said there was something wrong with it from the start. but the game was picked anyways(probably because it was said to be “arcade perfect”)
can you understand why the game was changed over the years now? that is pretty much as clear as i can put it.