DC Comics Thread

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3601

Detective’s taking in place during his first year as Batman. There’s your ‘noob’ Batman. Everything else is taking place in current time.

It’s just because DC didn’t want to flush Morrison’s entire run down the toilet along with John’s GL stuff, IE the stuff that was selling. Almost everything else got scrapped.

Batman not knowing about the Court? You mean like how he was the last to find out Identity Crisis, or not knowing his childhood best friend was scheming during Hush, or not knowing about all of the Thomas Wayne shananigans? Didn’t Moriarty fool Sherlock Holmes? It’s just a device to keep readers entertained.

About the compressed time, what cramming 80 years of stories into 10 (even with reboots almost every Batman story still happened according to Morrison) was easier? It’s a sliding time scale even under the best circumstances. Years turn into months. Then weeks. Then days. That always happens.

About Damian’s back story, don’t forget that Morrison tweaked the hell out of Son of a Demon to even get him to exist so in many ways that is a story that’s never ever ever been told. Except for Talia playing Maury Povich and saying “In the case of Damian Wayne Bruce, YOU ARE THE FATHER!” And that’s all we got. :smiley:

Sure DC will tell the story eventually and play ‘continuity cop.’ For the continuity whores (that are worse than I am) who want everything to fit, make sense, be believable and seem realistic when it will never be. It’s about a grown ass man putting on a bat suit and punching out a clown on a nightly basis. :rofl:

To be honest I hate most of the reboot because of all the drastic changes and if Batman was a noob in year five or if they started him over too with DG in diapers I’d probably drop that too. I’m glad most of the changes are really only on the surface at best.

I freaking HATE what they did to Superman personally but I get that like no one was reading his book prior at least. So changes were probably necessary from DC’s view of things. Just not crazy how they went about it. But if it’s selling and people are enjoying it hey more power to them.

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3602

On the note of superman I hate action comics and how supes/clark is portrayed. Anyways as sano said I don’t think we can expect a realistic canon especially since the majoirty of comic canon is party broken or fragmented. We have enough explanation to get by and as long as the revisions aren’t to drastic or suspend disbelief to much i don’t see why it has to ruin the reboot…although I will admit I’m slightly confused about when JL takes place.

3603

Well the first arc of JL was during DC’s year one. The following arc is five years later in current time.

I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around Cyborg being a founding JL member and now it looks like he was probably never a Teen Titans member.

I might drop JL too if Johns wants to write about “we the people love the JL” for this arc like the first issue was leaning towards. Come on man another fight please.

3604

Cyborg isn’t interesting enough to be given such a crucial position in the new 52…captain marvel or even power girl would have made more sense. I’m also doubting he was a teen titans member but I’m confused if the team ever happened to begin with cause the teen titan book takes place currently and it seems like it’s a generally new thing. However in batwoman it was stated the team had existed beforehand but that book is taking place at the same time as teen titans sooooo…giant canon WTF

3605

You should read some Holmes - the only person who ever fooled him was Irene Adler. Moriarty only got away with things because he had resources, and he still got bodied. He was never a match for Holmes, though he did take him with him. Holmes was only brought back with a very Marvel-esque retroactive retcon, and only because Doyle wanted people to stop throwing eggs at his house. None of that is the point.

The owls aren’t Moriarty. They’re crazy people that think they’re owls and live underground. And Bruce is no Holmes; Holmes is ten times the man Bruce was at his best, which was in 1986. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Returns

Comics change writers, writers have off days, you get good arcs and bad arcs - the stupid owl stuff isn’t a big deal. Taken in perspective, it’s not bad at all:
http://www.cracked.com/article_16870_the-20-most-ridiculous-batman-comics-ever-released.html
Nobody expects realism from comics, but a degree of logic and order is still necessary for stories to function, and every time we get one of these outrageous reboots/retcons, the foundation is weakened. These big continuities become increasingly cumbersome, and getting in there and hacking it up and changing things certainly doesn’t help. We’re not even going to get into the concept of having respect for decades of story. I mean, who cares about that? Not DC. Not really me, either - but they could’ve found a way to stomp all over it without insulting the reader by asking him to buy into things like all the robins in 5 years. With DC raising prices and doing even more desperate money-grabbing stuff like Before Watchmen (at 3.99 no less), it’s hard not to feel some disappointment. To add insult to injury, continuity aside, there’s an awful lot of mediocrity in the New 52 lineup. I read 8 New 52 titles, and only two of them are actually better comics than they were before the reboot.

I was happier before I knew about some of these changes, *especially *the 5 year thing - when I started reading New 52 titles, after only a short break from most DC comics, I **didn’t have a clue that there had even been a reboot - I thought they’d just reset the issue numbering. **Because there was no indication in the actual comics that anything was different. Everyone was acting the same as always. I seriously thought that they’d just reverse-aged everyone a little, and that we were just back in the thick of things by publisher magic. And that worked for me. Continuities have to be trimmed and managed when they get out of hand, because they always do - and there may not be a right way to do it - but I can guarantee you there are ways less wrong than this. That said, I’m still enjoying all the DC titles I’m getting, to one degree or another. Except maybe Catwoman.

3606

Lol I read Sherlock Holmes when I was in school. Now I actually love classic literature and lots of luck trying to get me to read a prose book that isn’t at least 30 years old or more. But I still found his adventures to be mind numbingly boring. I’ll have the Queen call me a heathen and stick to the Robert Downey Jr. movies over reading his adventures again. I get how the stories influenced Batman and modern day forensics, but I’m sure not reading Holmes ever again. Give me a Charles Dickens book any day.

You sure wanted to focus on a throw away line, but I did put it out there so my bad. My overall point is Batman has had the wool pulled over his eyes many times.

With that aside, being a detective means you deal with facts and clues as opposed to looking into conspiracy illuminati style theories. If the Court didn’t leave a trail, Batman wouldn’t look into it. He’s not exactly The Question who thinks the boogie man is behind every corner.

If that’s still hard for you to swallow again, it’s a device to keep you entertained and it’s not real anyway. You have to give things leeway here and there.

If you haven’t you should check out GoodMourning’s miscellaneous video thread. In the first vid a fan asks Morrison how old is Batman.

I’m on my phone and on the train so I can’t post a link but to sum up Morrison says that kids at a very young age know that stuff like the Little Mermaid is fake.

As we grow up we know that stuff like Batman is fake but we try to attach realism to things that are fake when in fact, it’s fake! How old is Batman? He’s over 80. :smiley:

I wish the reboot never happened too and say what you want about DC editorial but I don’t think Snyder and the Bat crew (except for Winnick just because he sucks IMHO) are insulting the intelligence of readers. They’re relying on us being intelligent enough to know none of this is real anyway and are keeping us entertained within the limitations of the universe. Again without discarding the entirety of Morrison’s work.

Except of course for the continuity whores who they probably lost along the way. I love continuity but I get that within these sliding time scale universes certain things you just have to turn a blind eye to.

Not you in particular Wish, but if this is something you can’t do you might want to start looking into other forms of fiction that offer actual realism, growth and change instead of the illusion of it that Marvel and DC provide. Most of what gets changed changes back sooner or later. Barry and Hal, WHAT’S GOOD?

4 Robins (neither DC Universe really considered Spoiler a real Robin) in five years, ten, fifteen plus Batman appearing in 10 books a month, it’s always going to be a tight fit. At least with Batman now the only thing that counts is Morrison’s run and whatever else can be tweaked further as they see fit.

There’s a thing Marvel and DC do where they rarely bring up anything that is older than 4 / 5 years old. The reason is because every few years the audience changes and they don’t want to bring up stuff the newer audience isn’t aware of.

With stuff like Batman, GL, Aquaman, Flash etc. it’s pretty much the same exact thing, right now it’s just in your face and blatant is all.

It’s not like in the old universe someone was going to pick up on a loose end Denny O’Niel left in the 80s. Now you just have a guaranty that it won’t happen.

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3607

Funny but in the very first line in the new Batman issue that came out this week Batman straight up says something along the lines of, “You can live in Gotham your whole life and not know anything about it.” So no need to read my long head posts lol Snyder got your back.

Anyway the Court of Owls crossover is off to a good start. I really liked Nightwing. ABOUT TIME he does something cool. :cool:

3608

Any of you guys reading Green lantern New Guardians? Apparently they’re crossing over with Blue Beetle and somehow Bleez from Red Lanterns is also there

3609

Yeah after the reboot it’s just Justice League, Batman, Batman And Robin and Nightwing for me. Tried a bunch of other titles but these are the ones I’m mostly sticking with.

I’ve never been a big Green Lantern fan just like I’m not that big into Marvel’s cosmic stuff either.

I really like the Green Lantern CGI cartoon though have to say.

3610

Welp Blackhawks is over.

Shame the last issue makes it so they could do anything. Shame

3611

Argues about Batman, somehow cites DKR as his best incarnation…lol.

What else is DC canceling besides Blackhawks? I was thinking OMAC, Frankenstein, and a few others would be on the chopping block.

3612

OMAC is done for sure, I think Men Of War, Blackhawks and maybe one other series is getting canned. Frankenstien is sticking around with a new writer, Lemire is going to JLD. Milligan focusing on Red Lanterns.

3613

“Best” and “most representative” are not necessarily the same thing.

The Batman who took on Superman and the U.S. government to remake the country in his own fashion has to be pretty far up in terms of capability.

3614

Yeah Men of War is over so is Hawk and Dove I think

And Deathstroke might as well be over

3615

The Wish said: The owls aren’t Moriarty. They’re crazy people that think they’re owls and live underground. And Bruce is no Holmes; Holmes is ten times the man Bruce was at his best, which was in 1986. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Returns

So yes he said “Best” and it’s a subjective opinion, he’s welcome to it, but it’s not concrete by any means.

3616

Actually wanted to know everyones take on Red Hood & The Outlaws. I knw a few might bitch about Starfire, but other than that, after reading its first 7 issues, I’m really digging it. LOVE the art.

3617

I love the artwork too but I couldn’t wrap my head around ‘Slutfire’ and them devolving her relationship with Dick Grayson as being all about sex.

That’s the second time they pulled that because in Nightwing’s annual a few years back they demoted their relationship to Starfire just being a ‘rebound girl.’

I know people at DC really don’t want DG to have a serious relationship with anyone other than Barbara or hell someone that comes from the Bat-verse but geez. Taking things too far much?

I honestly don’t have a preference between DG x BG and DG x SF but I swear DC does and that’s what makes this whole thing bothersome at times.

Ha remember when DG Batman and Starfire were both on Justice League and Starfire just up and left because “Oooh nothing is going to happen between me and Dick Grayson anyway so I am just going to quit.” What a coincidence! I quit Justice League at the same time too!

**TL;DR: Yes I’m another one of those fans bitching about Slutfire. NERD RAGE!!! **

3618

I don’t see a reason to ‘bitch’ about it, but at the same time I understand why a fan would dislike how Starfire’s been treated. I’m not a starfire fan myself, but even with what books I’ve read featuring her, her interpetation in the Red Hood book is…unimpressive.

At any rate, my fav. book from DC this week, was, as usual, All-Star Western, DAT ART!

Aquaman was good too.

3619

Paging through some random old Superman comics… a surprising number of them depict him helping to clean up the damage after a disaster/supervillain battle/whatever.

Kind of preempts all the attempts to deconstruct the superhero by pointing out that they cause so much damage, at least in Superman’s case.

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/152745-2/Bruce_Lee_reaction.gif

3620

The only version of Starfire I actually knw was the whiny annoying version that was in the Teen Titans cartoon. This one being a cold, dangerous sex freak isn’t really a problem with me. Look how many comics and movies alike that make female characters that will have sex or makeout with a guy and slaughter them next.
But you never really answered my question, storywise, what do you all think of it?