Dance with the Claw: Vega Match-up Guide/Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
601

Played the Adon and Gen matches a fair amount today; some notes.

Vs. Adon;

Standing MK is a go to poke for this matchup. c.MP is as usual solid, but I was using it more as a reminder to Adon to stay honest from its max range and using s.MK far more. MK seems to do a great job shutting down Jaguar Kicks. From what little I tried reaction attacking back against Jaguar Teeth, s.RH seemed to do the job pretty decently. I’m fairly confident I threw Adon’s reversal Rising Jaguar (non-EX), which is awesome if confirmed. Neutral jump seems pretty good against Adon, since Rising Jaguar moves him forward. Adon’s anti airs aren’t the greatest, so j.FP can be a good risk to take. Splendid Claw works amazingly well on reaction against Jaguar Kicks of all kinds unless you do it WAY too early so he hops over you; the amount of time it takes for him to go through the move and landing recovery is enough to reaction U2. U2 vs Jaguar Tooth on the other hand will trade with no cutscene or lose generally, unless you catch him straight up in recovery, which can be difficult because he can mix up the strengths. Punish blocked Rising Jaguars with c.MK, c.MP, EX FBA I think; Cosmic Heel takes too long to come out / you’re not sure which side he’s on immediately.

Vs. Gen;
This one’s pretty tough. Gen’s jumps are going to be a pain for Claw’s to deal with, since between the arc and Gen’s walkspeed, they will often sail above standing RH range, which leaves you with Airthrow, jump back FP/MP, and neutral jump RH. You really have to be on point. His shoryu is annoying to punish on block; often times I’d settle for a ST, but that’s up to you. c.MP does hard work for you in this match; it’s largely a footsies battle. You have similar moves; roll attack, walldives, good pokes, good walk speed. You have slightly better range (And the better walldive imo), but he’s got a better air game and funny ultra potential. This match comes down to straight up footsies, and how well you can shut down a Gen jumping around you. If Gen gets to jump for free, he has a lot of ways to ambiguously cross you up and end in a throw / overhead mixup. Don’t forget he’s even got a neutral jumping attack that hits twice. :wink:

Hawk’s regular DP is not good and will lose to a lot of things, including jump back FP I believe. The EX version on the other hand is much more serviceable for him.

Haven’t played much vs. Viper. The only footsies I think you really have to deal with is her c.MK / c.MP; most of this fight is probably how well you can move and deal with her game in general as a player. NJ.RH against her super jump, bait and punish reversals properly (Make her whiff / hit her out of EX Seismo, punish blocked FP Thunder Knuckles / EX Burning Kicks)

602

Does anyone know any tips for being able to Cr lp *4? i stop at 3 at best adn rarely do 2.

603

I’ve fought Wolfkrone before, he won 7-5. His Viper is beasty.
With Viper you gotta stay 100% unprecitable, if he catches you in a combo he can pretty much stun you that instant so you dont want that.
CH shenanigans work really well in this match up coz all Viper’s options in this situation suck and she pretty much has to try to guess right and block. j.HP/j.MP beats or avoids anything she can do on wake up and in general you can safe jump her all day and bait silly reversals.
SHC works wonders in this match up, especially the MP version. if you use it right the Viper will be too scared to jump and do her air shenanigans.
Her wake up game is a bitch if you keep trying to block the flamekicks, either FA then dash away (usually this isnt an option as it can cross up plus she usually has enough time to punish your dash after her recovery, but Vega’s backdash is fast and cover good distance so you’re good) or KKK flip early. ST is surprisingly useful in this situation as well.
Against her TK strings, either backdash away or reversal Ultra. Anything else will get beaten (counterpoking, FAs, throws, jumping)
If she doesnt have meter Poke the living shit out of her, in the right range (outside the gay elbow overhead range) she wont be able to do shit, if you’re in range for the elbow just throw a c.Fierce/s.HK/ST when you expect it. with Meter you just gotta do it carefully coz of EX Seismo. there’s also EX Burnkick that’ll hit you if you’re at kissing range, so as long as you’re outside that range you’ll be alright.
I use U1 in this match up coz Viper is in the air alot and you’ll get a lot of chances to hit it. plus you shut down the full screen seismo pressure option when you have it stocked.

I hope that somehow helped.

604

Just took 3rd at a local FFA tourney with Vega. Still gotta learn the new adjustments to the other characters, and Rufus is still a stupid matchup against Vega, but at least you won’t die in one Ultra anymore. More room for error, even if the match is fundamentally the same. Exclusively used U2.

605

If you find wolfkrone beastly, you’re gonna shit your pants against FlashMetroid. I got my ass handed to me so0o bad by him yet my viper matchup isn’t usually that bad.
No wonder why he’s considered 2nd best in america…

606

Thanks for that, Eternal. I’m gonna have to be on my toes 500% lol

As for Flash, yeah. That guy is too much. Apparently he lives near me and goes to my local LAN center for casuals. Maybe I can catch him in there one day.

607

If this has been asked before and I simply haven’t read far back enough then I apologize. But I was wondering if there are currently any matchups where we would 100% want to have Splendid Claw over Bloody High Claw? I still currently prefer BHC since the motion has been pounded into my skull since the start of vanilla. And it gives the option to pick which wall I want to dive from, which has saved me a few games. (and a made a few wins even more beautiful :slight_smile: )

Maybe I’m misguided, but I really don’t see any situations where I’d rather have SpC over BHC.

608

Any one with a dive kick, or vortex pressure.

609

Just a question that was concerning me, I’ll ask it here rather than start a new thread…

What characters can deal effectively ith the Corpse-Hop?

I don’t really use it much, but was beaten recently by both(the excellent) Knucklez and Assasain Jay and the main difference was their proficiency with the corpse-hop and associated shenanigans. I know it works well against me, but was wondering does it work as well on your average Ken/Ryu/Akuma/Bison?
I’m going to put a bit of time into practicing it, as I basically need it to raise my game to the next level and any help/advice would be greatly appreciated…

610

It’s a shenanigan like any other. I use it alot though since it’s safe and sometimes it confuses opponents.

611

Here is what I gathered from my experience against a good Bison today.

Bison has good pokes and a strong zoning game, and he is on par with Vega’s walking speed. Unlike Super Turbo, Bison is not totally vulnerable to jumps during wakeup, his EX moves have good priority, enough to get him out of sticky situations.

Bison’s major strength, his ground game, is better than Vega’s. With st.MK, st.HK, safe Scissor Kicks (light version), cr.MK and his slide, he makes a fearsome opponent. Not only that, but like metioned before, his walking speed is fast. With that being said, Vega is not that far from him when it comes to it, my matches were pretty much a poke war and zoning all day.

Wall dive is a big no on this matchup, Bison has ALOT of options to beat your Wall dive: j.MP which can lead to Ultra, Teleport and laugh at you, Ultra 2 will hit you if you feint the dive, not sure of it hits if you perform the actual move, EX Headstomp which does ALOT of damage. Unless you are using the EX version during a combo, wall dive is not an option.

I couldnt find a way to beat his Devil’s Reverse zoning, at best I ended up trading hits with him. I didnt try air throw or n.j.HK, I need to hit the lab and do more testing and hopefully get better results.

I didnt have the change to test Ultra 2 alot, I only landed it from common mistakes that couldve been done by any other character, like focus attacks, meaties and crossups, need to hit the lab for this too.

It would be appreciated if someon else elaborates on the matchup, as the only thing I did was re tell my experience.

612

Hi guys,
i’m thinking of making a list of what Vega can do against all the characters to punish every special move
example: vs Ryu
L. Shoryuken: mp (the damage that could do)
mp mk (the damage that could do)
lp (the damage that could do)
FB (the damage that could do)
lp. FB (the damage that could do)
…etc.
L. Haduken : mp (the damage that could do)
mp mk (the damage that could do)
lp (the damage that could do)
FB (the damage that could do)
lp. FB (the damage that could do)
…etc.

is that fine?? should I post in this topic or a stand alone topic?? and if its in this topic can the topic maker edit it in the first post??

613

It punishes unsafe jump ins and neutral jumps. The only match you should consider using BHC in are shotos imo to shut down fireballs and this allows vega to effectively zone. Of course I would recommend learning how to focus fireballs dash -> BHC because this can be an effective baiting tactic because most people think once you dash you lose charge. This will also open up the rest of the later rounds so you can freely focus dash through fireballs.

614

Cr.mk sucks. That’s not one of Bisons best pokes. His best ones are really light SK and st.hk. St.mk and cr.mp are also great. But all of these don’t really have as much range as Vega’s pokes and light SK can be stuffed easily on startup. St.hk can be whiff punished by ducking.
If you’re looking out for them, Bisons wakeup options are weak. Also, he can be safejumped.
In general, jumpins are pretty good because Bison’s AA game is one of the worst in the game. His st.HK is an okay AA but can be beaten easily. His cr.hp is slow. If you manage to hit him just between the range of those two normals, he’s not going to be able to anti air you reliably.

615

My two cents on Bison:

cr.mp is godlike. You will want to use this as much as possible. With it’s superior range, you’ll keep Bison out of his most effective zone (but still inside your area), and it can even stuff his SK. Just lay on him, Bison’s AA, wakeup and reversal options are pretty weak. Of course, the same goes for you, so you’ll want to be the one pushing the pace in this match. Air throw owns him all day long - especially if he’s trying something as foolish as headstomping you. The thing I have most problems with is, well, except getting out if I end up in the corner (but this isn’t match up specific, I always have problems getting out of corners as Vega), is frame traps. I have yet to learn that sometimes, the best thing to do is to just hold downback.

616

cr.mp gets eaten alive by st.hk, and st.mk, from my experience

617

I don’t know if this has been mentioned/discussed already but cl.hp is really good for punishing OS techs. Best used against characters with no reliable reversal. It can also be used meaty (on wake up or after air to air reset) as well which pretty much serves the same purpose.

Of course, it’s nothing like Chuns cl.hk by any means due to it’s slow start up, but it can be used after blocked jump ins. Easily hit confirm able and safe if blocked.

It’s nothing new, but I just wanted to remind everyone of it’s utility.

618

What I learned from the Sagat matchup:

Sagat was a beast in vanilla and that hasnt changed in super, he is still a power house. On the plus side, Vega’s mask and claw endurance is a big help against the bald tiger. His uppercut doing less damage is a gift from the gods, but that doesnt change the fact that he can take about 30% of your life (or more) with a BnB combo.

You dont want to rush Sagat, miss one of your block strings and get a free mashed uppercut to the face and maybe even Ultra if he has the EX meter, your best bet is poke him at a distance where his Tiger Knee doesnt reach, st.HK, cr.MP and st.MK come to mind when you are trying to keep him away from you. Probably because Sagat is so tall, just like Zangief, ST seems to work more often than with the rest of the cast. Corners would be your worst nightmare, you will probably loose all of you equipment if you ever get caught and Sagat can Ultra after an EX Low Tiger Shot (yes he can).

Sagat may be more manageable than before, in a way he reminds me of the Zangief matchup, trying to keep him away and stuff but Sagat is faster and has Tiger Shot and that doesnt mean that you will win without any patience from your side.

Feedback would be appreciated.

619

I wanted to ask a few questions and not to bring up a dead horse here, but a Zangief I had played at a tournament a couple weeks ago had me really confused.

  1. He would neutral Jump and do like a headbutt, now I could be totally retarded, but never dealing with a zangief doing this, St.HK and ST would trade and me getting some sick stun from it, like if I took more then 3 of these 4 I would be seeing chickies.

  2. What’s the best poke to keep him from jumping at you to gain some ground? I probably was nervous and fucking up st.HK, because I was trading it a lot when he jumped at me so that could be my own fault.

620

that headbutt will stun you after like 2 of em. The best things to do is keep him at bay with s.hk. It beats his larriats and regular green hands and punishes his spins. If he jumps, s.hk will anti air at the right distance or just do some early Hk ST as soon as you see him jump. When ever you knock him down, give him some distance or go for safe options like an instant overhead jumping backwards with HP. He needs to get close to do damage, the only good option he has is EX green hands, everything else you can beat or punish with a s. HK or early ST. I also prefer to use U1 against him