Command Grab, c.Fierce canceled into Ultimate Ecstacy Crush. Does around 9255 damage from one ratio 2 to another.
A quick question: do the different punch strengths of the command grab make a difference?
-wow, todo rocks. i thought he was a joke character, but he’s definitely going into my A-groove team now (it looks like i’ll need a new avatar:lol: )
-but anyway, here’s another ghetto CC, if for some reason you can’t hit his standing fp xx lp wave CC…
activate CC, command grab x8/9, standing fp, super.
-from my R2 todo to a R2 kyo, it did 6344 damage. not too shabby. of course you can also just wait until the bar ends, and cr mp xx wave, or whatever combo you do after a grab. and try to input the grab command right after you hit him with your fist. that’s how you can get so many throws in there. and if you accidentally do it too quick and whiff, do it again. the other character is stunned for a long time remember, allowing for you to just grab him again.
-his dash is excellent also. he can hop over downed bodies, which sets up even more chances for his command grab. sometimes you can command grab, do cr mp xx wave, then hop and do it again. the wave distances them perfectly to do it again.
here’s some questions i have…
-what are some of his good pokes up close? yes forward + mk is good from a long distance away, but waves can get predictable up close.
-what are some of the better ways to set up his command grab? I do…
*jump in with short, command grab
*dash, command grab
*tick into command grab
*empty jump into command grab
what are some other good ways?
-what is his most damaging non super/CC combo after his command grab?
-and i’m having some trouble hitting the corner combo where you do command grab, lp wave, standing mp, lp wave. what is the timing on when you should hit his standing mp between his lp waves?
-what are his anti-air options on a crossup? does he have any?
thanks.
EDIT- the most consistent way i’ve found to hit his CC is do the command grab, (activate), cr hp x3, lp wave, [standing hp, lp wave]xN, super.
His strongest non-meter consuming combo out of the command grab is c.Strong, j.Wave. But you could always be adventurous and after the command grab, run forward and command grab again.
c.Strong, j.Wave is hard for me to do. For whatever reason it rarely combos. Maybe because I’m just slow. In the place of c.Strong I use c.Forward, but it dishes out little less damage.
Great information. This thread is really going to help my todo game greatly.
Great job guys!!!
At Last!!!
My Computer Works!!!
Time for some more Info Guys
If you have a Bar
And you are in the Corner
And you don’t want to waste it (Say, you are in S or K Groove. Or N for that matter)
And you can’t do the Corner B&B (And don’t want to Try)
And it’s a Big Character you’re Facing (Eg Sagat, Zangief etc)
Here’s what you can do!!!
Command grab -> C.MK -> C.MK -> Cho Kasane Ate.
Hey The Cho Kasane Ate hits for 4 hits, so it’s not too bad.
And I recently found one one BAD thing for Todo. He’s not 100 % Covered when he does his Super Counter.
SURPRISE!!! it’s true. I’ve only been hit TWICE out of it in my life.
BOTH on the same day
BOTH by the Same Ryu
Both when for some inexplicable reason he actually did a VERY deep Crossup , such that he hit me below my back RIGHT AFTER my Counter Flashed.
I got Hit.
I screamed (in a noisy arcade it’s ok)
People around me were shocked.
After he lost, he put in his credit.
He did it again.
BOTH times I betcha he didn’t plan for it. It’s like one in a Zillion odds I tell you.
But it doesn’t seem to work for any other character I know though.
Ok To answer some stuff
-what are some of his good pokes up close? yes forward + mk is good from a long distance away, but waves can get predictable up close.
S.MP is fast and high
C.MP is Low and Meaty
Both Connect to Wave so it’s just nice
-and i’m having some trouble hitting the corner combo where you do command grab, lp wave, standing mp, lp wave. what is the timing on when you should hit his standing mp between his lp waves?
You should train to do it the instant he recovers. There is no way for me to describe how it looks like, so just practice.
-what are his anti-air options on a crossup? does he have any?
None Whatsoever that I know of.
And a Word of Advice to all Todo players
NEVER do a Super at the end of your CC, it’s MUCH less damage thanm C.MP + Wave
Just try to end your CC with a Command Grab then C.MP then Wave if you’re not in the Corner. If you are, do your Corner B&B.
If you got it down pat, you can do the Command Grab such that the portion that he hits with it is OUTSIDE of the CC, which is so much the better for you.
3300 Damage is better than 1600 Damage ANYTIME. It’s not easier said than done. It’s very doable.
Also, for people who can’t yet do the Mid Screen S.hp into L.Wave
You can do a easy version where you do Two S.Hps into one wave instead. It makes you travel faster too.
For A-Groove users, remember though there is a good reason to use the two punch version instead. If you are already Half a screen away, do the two hit version because you want to reach the corner faster. S.Hp into Wave may be damaging now but it doesn’t get you into the corner in record time to do the repeat ones. The Aim for all Todo Ccers should be to
- Assess if you’re getting near the corner
- Do the Type of combo accordingly.
A Normal Todo CC should Always be above 9000+ Damage.
what is the ideal number of fierces at the beginning of the CC that set up the waves and still get good damage before the hit count goes to hell?
Before I begin, let me say that I have done some researching, and that Damage Scaling Applies for Todo’s End of CC Command Grab if it hits OUTSIDE of the CC. It can Vary from 100 to the Full 1200 depending on how many hits you have done before hand. This also includes the Ending B&B which means all my Previous CCs I typed, all do about 3000 less damage due to damage scaling, if you hit a lot (Over 30~40 hits). This also means one thing. Do your Super instead. Sigh. It is a Very Sad day for me to have to say this.
Ok. now…
If you’re talking about the corner, then it’s Grab, PING, C.HP X 3, S.HP X4 then Wave after Wave. OR Grab, PING, C.HP X 4, S.HP X2 then Wave after Wave.
Reason - If you are confident that you can do your C.HP Accurately Fast, you can hit up to 4 times. This saves time on Damage, leaving you to do S.Hp 2 times.
For a Command Grab into PING into C.HP X4 + S.HP X2 is = 4688 Damage and sets you up Very Nicely and Very Closely for you waves that you want to connect to a grab.
For a Command Grab into PING into C.HP X3 + S.HP X4 is = 4952 Damage which also sets you up close.
But lets look at why the second option isn’t really as viable in the long run.
If you notice, Todo has a Timing on his A-Groove S.HPs. Too fast and you whiff with his Close S.HP. Too Slow and…well, you miss. So the Perfect Repeat S.Hp is actually Two Head Chops into one Chin Strike. But this is slow isn’t it?
So the First Combo Gives you 4 Immediate Hits without Waiting to Pause, The Next Two also Immediate hits without waiting to pause because after the 4 hits, you are far away enough not to have the second hit turn into a Chin Strike. If you observe the CC bar, you will see that it only took you 1/4 of a bar to do it, and you can already start Waving (Hi there!!! wave wave)
The Second Combo Gives you 3 Immediate hits, But after that is where stuff go funny. If you follow up with 2 hits into Waves, you waste the Seventh hit that is worth 336 samage (more than a wave). BUT if you DO hit one more time, you end up with a Chin Strike that pushes you slightly away, meaning that if you start waving, you must eventually do a S.HP somewhere at the end of the combo just to get close to grab. That leaves you with the option to hit once more to get close first. But thats a wasted move that does only does 224 damage (Less than a wave). The Worst part is, it ALL takes a much longer time to do than the first combo, which means you wasted one or two waves worth of time already.
HOWEVER
I’ll tell ya a secret o’ mine.
The Second Move set is not Wasted, it has a very important use in an almost true reset that my friends still like watching.
Roki’s Reset!!!
Command grab -> Ping -> C.HP X3 (Pusposedully not accurately fast enough to hit for 4 hits, yet fast enough so you don’t end up too far away. Just do a reasonable Tap tap tap) -> S .HP X2 -> Pause for a Millisecond, Now Press Toward HP but Right after the Animation Frames immediately cancel it into a Command Grab. You would have been too far away to do a command grab at first, but because of your S.HP your body shifted Forward and Voila! Command grab taht has been really reset. Count starts back at 1 and you can pummel away at the guy. Again. I managed to Reset twice in one Combo before and the Guy Died From a FULL Life. No, wait that was in Training mode. When I did it in the Arcades, the Guy had only 1/8 life left because I didn’t add in the Corner B&B ad the end.
of course some people prefer to replace the S.Hp with RC Command Grab, which is MUCH safer, but also has a Danger of not resetting. Surprisingly, when I S.Hp twice then RC Command Grab, it doesn’t reset. Maybe I did it too fast.
Well basically you can do things like that at the right distance (Say, when your Toe Touched Kyo’s Foot in the Corner for example) Which is a Distance where you wouldn’t be able to grab him, but will if you just take a Smaaallllllll step forward.
It really hurts, and Works Better than Resets with any overheads.
Ok here’s the Full String with Explanations
Command Grab -> Ping -> C.HpX3 -> S.HP X2 -> Reset Command Grab explained above -> Once the Command Grab HITS C.Hp X 4 because your body isn’t pushed away, then S.Hp X 2 -> Reset Command grab Again -> C.HP X 4 -> S.HP X2 into a Non Reset Command grab -> Corner B& B.
Damage Chain
1200 -> 0 -> 3192 -> Reset Another 4352 -> Reset Another 4352 -> If Succesfully Hit outside, as the Eight Hit, 1050 for the Command grab due to the Damage Scaling, if not succesful it does 192 damage -> Corner B&B 2000+ (Damage Scaling)
A Whopping 16000++ Max
Assuming your opponent didn’t try as heck to escape, or didn’t know better. And assuming you didn’t muck up. And assuming you’re lucky, and assuming…just about everything else.
Ah I can’t continue, I gotta go
Roki out
Rokiseph, that is good stuff. Do you have any uses for a wave that is performed using the Tiger Knee motion?
And with your little counter problem, I think the situation is that Todo won’t counter anything that hits him from behind. It is that way with Geese, at least.
Eh, Shocky… Geese will counter you, from anywhere, as longas you are using the appropriate counter. You could IAD over him and attack from behind, and it would still counter.
P.S. Even if it isn’t guilty gear, the counter is still all directions, try it vs. morrigan crossup, after a knockdown.
Fighting Kyosuke (I’m serious, just read on)
OK, this is lame, and let me put in a disclaimer that I’m fairly new to CVS2 but…
When i’m fighting Kyosuke, I have trouble stuffing his fireballs with my Kasane Ates. Since his Cross Cutter starts off as 2 fireballs on startup (hi and low), my KA stuffs the low one, but the high one bobs over neatly and pegs me. It sometimes results in a near-even trade, but if he’s RC’ing his Cross Cutter, I’m in trouble of course… This is especially a problem up close, when I’m in Jab KA range.
Very annoying. No problem once they come together, but the only practical way I’ve found to stuff them completely is from quite a distance away (not sure, but IIRC, 2/3 screen, using strong/fierce KA). The only problem with this situation is that Todo is too far away to land his more damaging combos.
Once I have a CKA stored up, though, stuffing it is not a problem. Until then, it’s pretty annoying. The trouble is building Todo’s meter when firing/landing a KA is not a really viable option.
The last annoying Kyosuke bit involves his air Cross Cutter, which pretty much shuts down Todo’s option of using his Air Kasane Ate. When that happens, I try to rely on air guard to block it and I don’t bother throwing out my AKA. C.HP doesn’t help - it’s an energy attack, and Kyosuke can psyche you out. Instead, I either roll away or try to dash backwards and throw out a KA to get in some chip damage, or a lucky hit.
Basically I have to change my strategy to play Runaway Todo (which I’m not really good at) and include a lot of rolls and blocks in my game book. However, Kyosuke tends to recover before I finish my roll (read: throw) and blocking disrupts Todo’s momentum.
So… any other tips besides Runaway Todo? I’m playing C-Groove.
(Corner) - Ding, TK Fierce Wave x fucktillion.
Just keep Todo in the air and churn the stick while mashing fierce. It’s a guarenteed guard crush like halfway through the custom if you do it properly. Take that, 1950’s society.
-rich.
Hi Mr.Sparkle.
I’m a primary K Groover, but here’s what I know of C-Groove Todoism.
Incorporate a Hop Back into a HP Kasane Ate when you can. This builds meter, although slowly, but it puts you at a good distance that may hit the opponent who follows you forward. (Like Kyosuke, his cross cutter won’t hit you so far then.)
Against Kyosuke, you hop back KA, then you super jump at him. If he does a cross cutter, it can’t hit you because you can air block. If he has meter, don’t do it of course. However none of us can really help you on that if you don’t tell us which groove that Kyosuke is in. But one thing is for sure, that other kyosuke must be pretty lucky to be able to time his C.Cutters so accurately that it goes over your waves, just work on his pattern. And you can roll anyway.
As a C-Groove Todo, try to get this habit :
When you do your SUPER, always do Level 2 Cancelled on the 5th (or 6th hit I forget) into a Command Grab. Always have one Meter Stored To keep you covered when you are in a tight situation (To counter). The Best B&B Super is of course Grab -> C.HP-> Level 2 CKA into Command Grab to reset his Juggle potential. however this IS a bug/glitch/ and you can don’t incorporate it. I usually won’t unless I play a friend who RCs and for some reason I’m in C-Groove.
Darn I gotta go I’ll be back if I can find another computer (Mine’s currently messed up)
But another thing.
Mr.Sparkle, i think you just need to play abit more and some of your problems (like the air cross cutter ones) will be solved through your experience. It’s really something about getting used to the game dynamics.
I like Todo a lot…especially on S groove…but damn some of his normals just seem crappy to me (both standing fierce and roundhouse seem kind of goofy). Although I really like his MP, and crouching fierce…and he seems to have pretty easy B&B combos…
Taking Risks in Todo CCs
Stuff to Consider :
If you are nearer to the corner and want to trap the opponent in the corner for some reason, Ping into CC, Do whatever you want, but when you want to Change Direction, Do your Command Grab, and Roll on Contact, you will end up on the other side and you can grab him again. It’s not a Combo, but the opponent is likely to be disoriented. Don’t grab too fast though, or you will actually whiff.
Todo CCs if Opponent is half a screen Away :
If Opponent Vulnerable
Ping -> Heavy Wave -> Immediately S.HP when the first hit of the wave connects, and Immediately S.Hp again as the first HP is considered a hit and moves you forward enough to hit him as part of the combo.
Alternative is to replace the First HP with a Slide kick
If Opponent Guarding
Ping -> Heavy Wave, but once the first hit is blocked, S.HP again, then Immedaitely S.HP Kara Cancelled into Command Throw, then continue CC.
Wouldn’t ticking into the command grab at the end of the CC to that Corner B&B be a viable strat once or twice?
Yes, if you’re sure that other guy isn’t spamming a reversal or mashing for activation
If you do really wanna tic throw at the end, do that Corner B&B Grab -> Wave -> MP -> Wave.
Hmmm… How about a RC grab instead of the tick throw? You move up a bit, the other guy will either be blocking or mashing. I’m sure they’ll wisen up and try to jump at the end but I thought Todo had a good 50/50 with his RC grabs.
Yes, that is correct, but remember not to do it too early because even RCed grabs , if done too fast, are considered part of the combo of a CC! Hahaha I remember postin tat on another thread… And the risk is still there, but a bit different, you now aren’t afraid of people mashing to lp you out of it, but if people are mashing for activation or going for a throw, you’ll still get hit, so it’s up to you which you want to do.
Haaa! I’m so glad, one of my friends at Arcade decided to use C-Todo (I hope it’s for the long term). JH, don’t stop using him!
Anyway, I’ve decided to fine tune Todo, and here’s the result of it.
Revision of Todo B&B. ok guys, I think it’s ok that if you have really fine execution, that you go ahead and do Command Grab -> Walk a bit -> s.MP -> C.HP. It does Same damage as the Grab -> S.MP -> Wave, and 100 Damage and 1 Stun more than the other variations. If you have it down pat, then it’s also the Beginning of the Combo into Super, which is why it’s good to practice it for midscreen B&B. I haven’t really practiced that after these years, I ought to…
And one extra thing to learn is the Kara Cancel into Command Grab. I used to say Do your S.HP (Neck Chop) And kara cancel immediately into Command Grab with LP or MP right?
Well, I’m a darned fool for forgetting about Negative Edge! From now on, do your command grabs like this Press Hp ->Do command grab movement just as it is within a few frames of coming out, release HP. It’s 2 pixels more than the Medium one (not that much, but once in a looooong while, it’ll matter)
Ok, I knew I had a question regarding this a while back:rofl:
Ok, A-Groove Resets, if you connect CC and after a bit do the kara cancel s.HP neg. edge HP command grab, and the other guy’s blocking (because, well, you know) will the kara cancelled poke at that close range get the opponent’s blocking animation to come out, so you grab him while he’s stuck blocking?
Would the prefered way of escaping this be simply holding jump+towards?