Counter Picking List

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
81

You honestly have no idea what you’re talking about do you? Dhalsim has complete control of the lower horizontal field because of his fireballs and long reaching normals. This basically forces Fei long to jump, and Dhalsim has godly anti-air control, with an attack for literally every situation. So Fei long spends all his time trying to get in close, but even if he does get in close Dhalsim still has a beasty up close game. Dhalsim’s up close normals come out fast and have good priority which allows him to beat out most of Fei’s attacks. A simple block chain can widen the gap between them. Don’t forget that Dhalsim also has a very good rusdown game of his own with his close normals, drill kicks, and flying headbutt. He also has the noogie trap and his kick throw both of which he can easily tick into. And if all else fails to widen the gap back up, Dhalsim still has teleport which no attack can stop.

Fei vs. Sim is listed as a 3:7 match-up in Sim’s favor. So sim is actually considered a counter-pick against Fei. The real question is, how good are the Dhalsim players you are playing?

82

You ripped the words right out of my mouth.

It is very simple. If Fei CAN get a opening to HIT for a big combo, he has a chance. If not he is burnt yoga fire toast.

Here are some points I bring in to help substaniate my statement.

Dhalsims throw range is 24% farther than Fei’s throw range. That is 18 pixels farther.

Out side of the phycic DP, CR. Frierce, and Deep Jumping MK. Sim can counter everyone of Fei longs moves in game on reaction.

Rekka’s are beaten with Cr. punches. (non DB) If they happen to get in, and you block a rekkas X3, use forward LK to punish. Even if they are at the perfect spacing to be protected for all other things the Forward LK will hit.

CW is beaten with Cr. lp/mp. CW will wiff, and Dhalsim can Noggie.

Random DP’s can be beaten with on thier reovery with MK or other various moves depending on distance.

5/6 jumpins can be beaten with either, Back Standing Jab, Back Standing Short, or any Slide.

The only jump in that will beat those is a late MK. (most ppl don’t even know that). If they do you start using Jp. Fierce, standing Mk & RH to hit the out of the air on the jump-in.

The only Bitch of a move to deal with is the Cr. Fierce. If a Fei knows how to throw it in here and there, he’ll can hit Dhalsim’s limbs in some unusual places, two or three of those with stop a limb spazzing Dhalsim. (not to mention its dizzy potential.) Ultimately, it just slows the pace of the match, thought it is still in Dhalsim favor.

83

Correction buddy, you mean, fierce throw. Sim has no kick throws. Your thinking CVS2 there! :wink:

84

… damn, I need to stop playing A3(I hate CvS2 Sim).

85

I love A3 Sim! :lovin: LOL!

86

Wow, I’ve never seen so many people limited towards bullshit pointless ratio win/lose charts. The only two great Sim players I’ve played were Kyokuji, and Afrolegends at evo west. You guys are taking this shit and completely backing it up with figures and numbers based on a chart. And by making sim’s sound so godly you make it sound it’s nearly impossible for fei to get in. At evo west It wasn’t so difficult for me to avoid the fireball or standing F.RH, there is something called observing? and most of the time CWing over projectiles was easy as shit for me. True, Dhalsim does have advantages at long range, this is something I didn’t say he had or encouraged. I simply said it is simple for fei to get in close. The trick is to time the CW to make sure you won’t get fucked by jumping in to early. Crouching fowards does beat out rekka, but there is something called mix up…I don’t know who would do x3 rekka to get punished by a crouching foward, to me that just sounds ridiculous. Guile has sonic booms and flash kicks… not so difficult to mix up pressure strings against him or to get him in the corner. I’m wondering…what kind of fei long players are you playing?

87

None of Fei’s matchups are unwinnable, but he does have bad matchups, and Dhalsim is the worst of those. You should play more Dhalsim players and see whether it’s the matchup you don’t find bad or only the guys you’ve played again, especially if you’ve only played two competent Dhalsims. I don’t play either character seriously, but I’ve watched the matchup plenty of times both in the best arcades Cali has to offer and in videos of dudes from Japan, and in all of them, the Dhalsim players have won way more than they’ve lost.

88

How long have you been playing ST? I’ve only gotten into the game this year and I already have learned that Sim is the best overall character in the game because he has the best match-ups, that has been undisputed for a very long time. Second of all Afrolegends doesn’t even play Sim, he uses DeeJay and Boxer. Two Sim players that immediately come to mind are Alex Wolfe(evo 2k6 champ), and Jason Cole(two time evo champ).

Heres how the fight of Fei vs. Sim works. You spend all of your time trying to get close to Sim, but once you finally get in close it’s really hard to stay there. I’d much rather take the words of top players with over a decades worth of this game being played at a competitive level to back up their claims over what you have to say.

89

I thought Honda was good in ST? If he’s not, can somebody explain why not?

90

If you ask me, Honda is better then low tier. He’s just a double edged sword. Destroys most non-fireball characters, gets destroyed by most fireball characters.

91

That’s exactly what I thought but I haven’t been playing the game long enough to be sure about anything but the following:

-Daigo is god with Boxer

-Claw is cheap. He’s my friend

-T-Hawk is hard to win with

-Dhalsim is the best

92

Honda gets killed by Ryu, Ken, Guile and DeeJay and loses to Chun; he dominates Zangief, Cammy, and Fei and beats Blanka, Hawk, Claw, and Dictator; and he goes even with Dhalsim, Sagat, and Boxer. The characters he dies against are hard because, like Cap says, he has a lot of trouble dealing with their big variable-speed fireballs; he loses to Chun, but her fireball isn’t as vicious for him. The characters he dominates and beats can’t deal with Honda turtling with headbutt and zoning with hand slaps, but they have varying degrees of problems with this. He goes even with Dhalsim because he can deal with Sim’s fireball, can knock down Sim in various ways, and Sim has real problems with Honda when they get close. With O Sagat, Honda goes over low tiger shots with headbutt, making Sagat’s best thing much less effective. The Boxer matchup is pretty even, both characters have solutions for each one’s nonsense, making it a very interesting match.

All this means Honda isn’t really high or low tier, more than anyone else he’s all about matchups. If you wanna place him in a tier, it should be smack in the middle.

Heh Nori your points are right on.

93

Ok, GREAT explanation, makes sense.

The game I primarily play is SF2T (Not Super). I know, I know, it’s not NEARLY as fun as AE but some guy at my workplace actually bought an arcade for it, so we all play here (even during work hours). In that game, all I deal with (using dictator, claw and sim, my only likeable chars) is shotos/blanka/guile. Long story short, does anybody in Super Turbo actually use Ken at high level? CAN he be used at high level?

I really like Dictator, always have but am thinking of playing Claw, Sim, or Boxer. Just not sure who fits MY style the best. Pointless stats for everybody…

94

Sure, people use Ken in high level play, and yeah, everyone in this game can be used at a high level. N Ken and O Ken are both pretty much mid tier.

Dictator, Claw, Sim, and Boxer are all good characters.

95

Alex Wolfe was there, but he wasnt using Sim, he was playing with Bison, mind you on the shitty AE version. I’ve been playing ST for over three years now. It’s funny how your relying that sim is the best overall character in the game. Just because you think that doesn’t mean he isn’t unbeatable. Everyone character has different strategy against another, which most of the time works if your a great player. Cole was at evo west, but he wasn’t doing casuals, or I didn’t see him play casuals. Rekka Ken gave me a tough time against his O ken but I still managed to get some wins, along with Alex Wolfe. I think your relying to much on what word of mouth is instead of gaining experience from playing. A year doesn’t count for much.

96

I am not using a chart to make my conculsion…

I have played for 13 years… Whats your point?

I have played afro legends HELLA matches… 100’s in fact… The dude is a demi-God, but if you using His version of Dhalsim as a basis for this agrument… Your disillusioned on who has an expert dhalsim, and how an expert Dhalsim plays.

Again I am not… This is against real ppl. I will be more than happy to provide names. I just don’t want to have to name drop to make my point.

I never said it is impossible, it is difficult.

I think most experienced players would say in is not SIMPLE for him to get in close… It is hard, it takes timing, patience, and execution. Nothing is simple if it involves those three elements.

The Good ones…LOL… Who are you playing?

I never said he was unbeatable… I am implying that Fei has to work alot harder to win than Dhalsim does in a match up between them.

What I have written has come from years of play and THOUSANDS of matches playing ST. Some of the best ST players are some of my good frieds.

You are certainly entitled to you opinion ( I am not trying to flame). However, due to my years of play and experience, I don’t think it is as easy as you say it is for Fei to beat Sim. (Maybe someone will show me something other wise, but I have yet to see it)

As I always say in these type of arguments, do your home work… YouTube is a wonderfull place to refreence some SF knowledge. Try to find some Japanese Tourny vids of Sim V. Fei Long, watch as many as you can, add it to your gameplay experience and then make your conclusion.

I have GIG’s of SF matches on my PC. I have nearly all the ones on you tube… I have done my homework and research… Why don’t you take a look… :pleased:

97

Yeah, with all due respect to kyokuji, who is pretty good (Ive played him on kaillera… we go roughly even, unless I use claw.), to call him and a guy who doesn’t even use dhalsim “the 2 greats” is a severe credibility killer. Legends is good enough that his sim, when he messes around with him, is prob better than mine and kyokuji’s combined, but if you’re looking for GREAT Dhalsims, you’re looking for Cole and Wolfe

98

Are you not understanding the point here? We all understand and agree that all matches are completely winnable(this is true in all fighting games not just ST). Deny it if you want but there are good, fair, and bad match-ups. And the past 13 years of ST being played competitively has shown that one of Fei’s worst match-ups is Sim. How hard is this to understand? Fei spends all his time trying to get close to sim, and when he does get close it’s hard to stay there. Thats how a typical Sim vs. Fei match goes, so where do you see Fei having any qualities that allow him to dominate Sim?

EDIT:

Bison is a beast in AE.

One year spent learning a great deal is better than three years learning nothing.

99

Going back to Counter-Picking…

IMO O.Guile has an easier time against O.Sag than N.Guile.

O.Guile has neutral RH AA, his fierce is backfist on neutral/holdback, he has standing shorts while holding charge.

100

Akuma