Is there anyone who thinks Zangief still has a disadvantage against Ryu?
Well you should probably watch Snake Eyez and Alex Valle’s match at West Coast Warzone 2 and see how difficult Snake Eyez has it against Alex Valle. 
… with a Xbox 360 controller no less. 
Yeah, I saw it. The word ‘rape’ came to mind.
That said, I just don’t think Valle played the match right. His performance yesterday along with vids I’ve seen of him having a hard time vs. guys like Jodim and Kuni makes me think that possibly Valle is simply a bit weak vs. Gief? I mean, Damdai vs. Daigo at SB4 was like, the exact opposite. I have a feeling that a DGV vs. Snake Eyez match will look much different if it happens.
I’m still inclined to call the match at least slightly in Ryu’s favor because of his fake FB.
Which part of the stream has that match? Thanks.
So me and GoldenArch finally played our match.
Ended up:
Shari - 10
GoldenArch - 8
We both agreed it feels very even and at most 5.5-4.5 in either direction.
We eventually settled for simply 5-5
Feel free to draw your own conclusions from the footage though.
[media=youtube]WIxtN3j0KHY[/media] Part 1
[media=youtube]QTFnRIrXf9s[/media] Part 2
[media=youtube]xsesISMDQXg[/media] Part 3
Although, in fairness to me, it was 6-4 Ken at one point!:bgrin::razz:
Heh.
This is theory fighter, I’m trying to understand how this works out:
T.Hawk vs Ken 3
I don’t understand how Ken wins so big here since it seems like T. Hawk could win by mid-range zoning if he gets ahead:
Fireball is answered by jump & dive, or - even better - Fierce Tomahawk.
Uppercut is punishable on reaction.
Tatsu is answered by crouching strong - which can also be used as a poke.
Ken’s Tatsus are pretty bad against T.Hawk most of the time, that’s true. And Hawk does have some great pokes to counter some of Ken’s tricks, like jab SRKs. Good Kens don’t spam SRKs or throw out Tatsus to close space against Hawk, though. They may bait your limbs into SRKs, but they’re really just trying to get you knocked back to start a zone game. His jab fireball recovers pretty fast, and is sloooooooow…he loves using it to get you to attempt a jump-in or dive so he can punish you; don’t for a minute think that is not what he was expecting. Couple that with his amazing assorted SRK properties (range, first-frame, invincibility, wide hitbox, fast, great recovery), and he can knock you out of the air on reaction on his terms most of the time. You can’t effectively safe jump or cross him up either if he’s competent; even neutral jump baiting him is difficult compared to other matches. It’s just a much harder grind to get in against him.
To add to the madness, staying in on Ken for effective damage is much more difficult than the rest of the cast overall…once again due to his amazing SRK flexibility. He can beat everything with the strong one, catch you off-guard in his face or out of the air with the fierce one, and whack your limbs with the jab version. He’s pretty much tied with Cammy and Akuma, and just a step below Honda for the Hawk lopsided match factor. It’s also tricky to get in on good Ryus, Sagats, Guiles, and DeeJays…but once you’re there, your options are much better, since your risks are minimized in comparison. For example, really good Ryu/Guile players will typically wait for the tick to follow through, then will attempt to reversal your throw attempt. If you know they are prone to doing this, you can tick into Rising Hawk instead, and it will beat their attempt clean if you were both tight with your execution. You simply cannot risk this against Ken unless he is braindead, since he has such good options.
Your best bet is to threaten pokes and stay on the ground as much as possible; if he goes for crouching strong, forward, or roundhouse you have your standing strong, fierce, and roundhouse primarily, and if he has a tendency to use higher pokes or (the much more likely) fireball from midrange, always be ready to Rising Hawk his ass. If you sense he’s getting psyched out, you can threaten walk-up throw more, so it’s very important to draw his moves out by hovering around his favorite ranges (sweep, jab SRK). It’s funny how effective walking back and forth there can be to bait him and set him up for a command throw; it’s probably your best bet in landing them on him (though this is much more difficult online). Remember that he can get desperate or creative by tossing fierce SRKs, Tatsus, and even walk-up throws of his own if you’re unwary or too passive. He can also reverse TK Tatsu to get the hell away from you in a hurry if he has the space available behind him. If he does widen the distance, you have to be patient and do what it takes to get back in range without setting yourself up to get knocked right back out, like openly jumping after him. (If you can read him doing something like this fast enough, though, a quick jump into dive is good as a short distance closer; just don’t rely on it to get you all the way there against Ken.)
7-3? Can’t say for sure from a stats POV, but it’s definitely one of his rougher matchups. Hope this helps!
Kens tarsus are good in combos but it’s char dependent. It connects well on hawk btw. Also tatsu after punch throw is a good way pressure to the corner since it sets up wakeup srk setups. Jizz is right tho, r.ken’s zoning got buffed with fierce srk. So neutral jumps are more dangerous over hados dive or not. That goes for everyone tho.
This is (roughly) the maximum distance that FP rising hawk will punish Ken’s Hadoken:
Crouching Ken & Hawk are the starting positions.
It’s relatively easy to do on reaction as long as you go after the start-up.
Forward Jump into quick dive should work from even further away (depending on how quick you are probably most of the screen).
[media=youtube]0u5afMY3oWw"[/media] all of this in action.
Soooooooooooo…
Going back to the Fei vs. Deejay matchup. :lol:
Has anyone changed their mind about it being 7-3? I’ve been preaching about it being a 6-4 matchup, and I hope I was able to convince some of you. 
My next debate is on the Fei vs. Vega matchup. Right now the chart is at 6.5 - 3.5 in Vega’s favor and I say it’s about 6-4 in Vega’s favor.
I would consider Balrog, Sim, and Honda Fei’s worst matchups at 6.5 in their favor. I wouldn’t consider Vega being fustrating as those three. Sure it can be annoying trying to get in on Vega with his pokes, slide, flipkicks, and wall dive shenanigans, but once you knock Vega down you can begin your mixups which can lead to big damage if Vega guesses wrong. Plus when you trade limbs with Vega using st.HP, st.HK, and cr.HP it’s usually in your favor since he dizzies pretty easily. Also you get free x2 Rekka damage off wall spike whether you block or get hit on the ground (Was Fei able to punish it before in ST?). Although, I don’t think he needs wall spike to fight Fei.
I also think Vega losing his walldive knockdown, and Stored flipkick also helped Fei a little.
Those are very interesting thoughts, Aqua. While you might be on to something regarding DeeJay, I’d be hardpressed to agree with you on Vega.
I think Fei’s worst matches, in order are: Vega, Honda, DeeJay & Balrog. I’d argue that Sim is about even–or just slightly in Sim’s favor. It is easier to get in against a quality Sim than it is a good Vega but I’m digressing.
Think about this Aqua: Vega doesn’t really have to pressure in this match–he can simply read and react, making this a Very bad matchup. Fei has to do more guessing and take more risks in order to win.
Rekka < Vega cr.LP, cr. MP, cr. MK, cr.HK. It is also unsafe on block in most instances.
CW < flip kick, cr.HK to go underneath it. Or, when the CW hits, there is a good chance that Vega simply throws/flipkicks Fei anyway to reset the playing field or start crossup games.
Flame kick is highly unsafe against Vega as even the LK version is very vulnerable on block and that gives Vega a free poke/sweep. Additionally, Vega’s cr.HK is mostly safe against the flame kick (it misses Vega most of the time)–again setting up a throw/poke situation.
What is worse is that when Fei finally manages to get close to Vega, he has an inferior throw range and the flame kick loses to the backflip kick. Sure, Vega takes a risk doing the backflip kick but use the LK version which is harder to punish online. Besides, most will use the flipkick as an anti-air to punish jumps and CW anyway.
Trying to outpoke Vega is a guessing game that I’m sure most Vega players will eagerly play. For every st. HK that Fei misses, he will eat a cr. HK for the knockdown/crossup shenanigans.
The knockdown will be more easily scored by Vega which exacerbates the fact that Fei is easily crossed up, despite the “option select” FK/CW. Add the very fast and maneuverable wall dive to the mix and it is possible to consistently disrupt Fei’s counter inputs…in turn, setting Fei up for flying body slams.
The wall spike is just superfluous in this match and is really only used as a finisher or to punish Fei’s jumping counters to wall dives. Those wall dives themselves are really just icing on the cake in this match, since Vega rarely has to leave his feet to win.
I’ve seen Branta and Blueblood tear through supreme Feis like Rice scot free enough to know that it isn’t just a slight advantage for Vega.
In short, Vega has this match firmly in hand all around: close range (cr.LP anyone?), mid range, long range, and air superiority.
Before I respond, I want to make it known that I consider 5.5 a slight advantage, and 6 an advantage.
Now with that said, I agree with almost everything you said. And I still consider it a 6-4 matchup.
Why? Because IMO Vega is vulnerable to many of Fei’s mixups/tickthrow shenanigans on knockdown (Especially in the corner). Flipkick is easily punishable no matter what strength he uses (cl.HP into rekkas = Big damage!). Flame kick is very risky in this match which why I use it only to let the Vega player know I have it so he will continue to sit there and turtle making it easier for me to work my mixups on him.
It is possible to make Rekkas useful in this match. It all depends on how well you can mixup. You can delay the third rekka to stuff whatever he decides to throw out. Or you do rekka x2 then walk up and throw to keep him confused. You can also build meter easily against Vega since he normally tries to keep away from you. So whether or not you have the health lead just do light flame kicks in place, then go after him. Now he’ll be even more afraid to attack out of fear of the super.
The biggest challenge is backing him into a corner.
It’s my observation that Fei players who has a strong combo style, but lacks a mixup game will have lots of trouble against Vega because IMO a strong mixup game is a better approach to this fight. Rice is a good example. He has a very combo oriented Fei Long. I want to ask him how his mixup game is because I would think with his style, the fight against Vega would be harder.
I absolutely suck at combos. So I have to compensate with a heavy mixup game (I’m more of a mixup kind of player anyway!).
To be fair, Rice has a great mixup/all around game. But that is neither here nor there. :bgrin:
I don’t think that play style matters a ton in this match–a Vega that knows his stuff should be able to handle this pretty readily. (It’s too bad that Fei can’t out-turtle Vega.)
What sort of mixups are you referring to? Anticipatory jump in attacks/crossups on a sliding Vega? Single or double rekkas into CW/flame kick/throw? Baiting slide and then attempting overhead?
Tick throw/fake tick attempts?
These are all risky actions. Even tick throw attempts aren’t a sure bet. If Vega times the counter throw properly, you’re thrown back into the corner and Vega is out of it…but cornering an alert Vega is a tremendous task.
I’m not saying that Vega has absolutely no risk in this match (any action or inaction is inherently a risk) but I’d venture to say that his necessity for risk-taking is far less than Fei’s. Can you point out any significant risks that Vega has to take in order to overcome Fei?
Finally, if Vega chooses to mixup, he has the edge there as well.
P.S.
You’re right about the flipkick, Aqua. I should have added that I’m on PSN where things seem faster–sometimes so fast that you don’t see them happen. :sad:
This reminds me a lot of the Blanka vs Vega Matchup. Vega can turtle HARD and just react to everything Blanka does. His walldives are 100% useless, but he doesn’t even need them to win.
Blanka has to either get a knockdown with electricity, or roll into bite to get things going.
Its so obvious when running into players who don’t know the matchup. They’re sliding and going off the wall, doing full screen rolls and trying to jump in constantly. All Vega has to do is sit with Flip kicks charges and he can do pretty well.
Matchups for my characters, IMO.
Ken Matchups:
vs Ryu: 4-6
vs Ken: -
vs E.Honda: 6-4
vs Chun Li: 4-6
vs Blanka: 5-5
vs Zangief: 4-6
vs Guile: 4-6
vs Dhalsim: 4-6
vs T.Hawk: 6-4
vs Cammy: 6-4
vs Fei Long: 6-4
vs Dee Jay: 4-6
vs Balrog: 4-6
vs Vega: 4-6
vs Sagat:4-6
vs M.Bison:6-4
Deejay Matchups:
vs Ryu: 4-6
vs Ken: 6-4
vs E.Honda: 7-3
vs Chun Li: 4-6
vs Blanka: 6-4
vs Zangief: 5-5
vs Guile: 5-5
vs Dhalsim: 4-6
vs T.Hawk: 6-4
vs Cammy: 6-4
vs Fei Long: 6-4
vs Dee Jay: -
vs Balrog: 4-6
vs Vega: 4-6
vs Sagat:4-6
vs M.Bison:6-4
E.Honda Matchups:
vs Ryu: 3-7
vs Ken: 4-6
vs E.Honda: -
vs Chun Li: 4-6
vs Blanka: 5-5
vs Zangief: 7-3
vs Guile: 4-6
vs Dhalsim: 6-4
vs T.Hawk: 7-3
vs Cammy: 6-4
vs Fei Long: 6-4
vs Dee Jay: 3-7
vs Balrog: 6-4
vs Vega: 5-5
vs Sagat:4-6
vs M.Bison:6-4
That is not completely true. It’s not like vs other characters but it can beat an upball clean if spaced properly. But then you can actually whiff punish it after Vega lands, still risky but Baconology was able to still be annoying with it against my Blanka. (bit laggy though).
Cool stuff, I left a few comments Not knocking your opinion or anything, just providing some insight which may change your mind! Then again, I’m no pro so take my changes at face value.
Come to think of it, I have seen it used on Blanka’s wakeup to beat the upball. VERY spacing and timing dependent though. Its so unsafe in general in the match, that it makes you wonder why the Vega player would even bother. If they mess it up at all it could easily lead to crossup shenanigans/dizzy/GGPO.