Whether or not they are available at all times is irrelevant. It’s whether or not the mechanic is any good is what we’re looking at. Would you rather if ultra combos were accessible at all times?
And what if ultras were in 3S? What if Daigo punished that super chip attempt with an ultra? He’d have still won. The point I was making was that, one way or the other, Justin messed up, and Daigo utilised a powerful mechanic to punish that mistake. Justin didn’t respect a mechanic that was available at all times and he lost for it. If you lose because you didn’t respect a mechanic that’s only available half the time, then you doubly deserve to eat it.
Whether that mechanic is called an ultra or a parry doesn’t really matter. The only thing that matters is how balanced that mechanic is. True, ultras are not as skilled as parries, but neither of them are free.
I’ve already said that ultras need to be changed. They CAN be balanced and they CAN be good. They’re just not. Unfortunate.
Were not talking about mechanics, were talking about comeback mechanics.
The fact that you can use parries to make a comeback does not suddenly make it a comeback mechanic. Or would you call blocking a comeback mechanic too?
And no it doesnt matter what the mechanic is called. What matters is how its implemented. Parries are just a universal mechanic just like blocking and jumping. Ultras are moves you get for sucking balls. Ill go as far as saying any mechanic thats implemented for the sole reason of helping the losing player is dumb as shit.
And tataki, again, not part of the arguement. Ultras are good dmg of fast and hella safe shit. And who cares if you can bait it, theyre safe in most cases.
parries are accessible to all at all times, and takes skill and timing to even “comeback” with them. you can’t compare that to an ultra in any way. it’s not a comeback mechanic.
it’s not like he even played so bad. he barely got there, justin had 30% life, and time was sorta close to running out. if it was bad play, there would’ve been much more time, and more life on justin’s part. justing just made an unexpected error.
ultras are not the same. they can be free and are overpowered in many cases. you’re not even comparing them right
Parries would only classify as a comeback mechanic if you had to fill a “revenge gauge” before you could start using them, lol. Unless you want to count stuff like crossups and throwing as comeback mechanics, too.
Comeback mechanic = Something engineered to give the losing player (and him only) an advantage, no? Anything else is just a regular game mechanic.
Full “comeback” meter at the start of the round, but your comeback move can only be used when you’re at 30% health (alternatively, you can use it whenever, but then you can’t regain meter until the next round). You can also spend comeback meter during the match on defensive moves (eg. Ukemi, parries, teleports - can vary by character), and you can regain a bit of meter by doing high-risk defensive moves (eg. taking slow recovering gray damage - the more health you recover the more meter you get). The less meter you have left during comeback move activation, the less damage it does.
Only thing I have to say about this post is that it can be taking in all seriousness. I’ve seen what happened to a Viper player with 65-75% health after beating a Blanka player into a bloody puddle until the Viper got caught with a fully charged ultra. That shit was automatic DEATH. Im sorry. You can gimme all the explanations on how ultras are available to both players, and yes it was Viper’s fault for getting caught in the 1st place. If they were gonna do that take away that shitty character specific health bars at least.
But that was the most blatant spoonfed match that I had ever seen. Blanka came out with the win so whatever.
You’re both either blind or really stupid. I said twice that ultras are not where they should be. We are talking about comeback mechanics in general and I used ultras as an example.
Seriously can we start handing out infractions to people who post total bullshit about games that they don’t even understand? Comparing 3S’s parry system, a universal system mechanic, to SFIV’s ULTRAS? Are you serious?
You realize how much skill it takes to [media=youtube]1UbE7wNObqM&#t=1m13s"[/media] a quick succession of attacks like this?
Or how much planning and execution it takes to stock two meters then [media=youtube]ZEx0jPAGA-s&#t=2m25s"[/media] after waiting half a round for that one single opening?
I suppose that [media=youtube]cZ-6kz5LyiI&#t=1m50s"[/media] takes the same amount of skill as landing a single attack + FADC + ULTRA?
You obviously have NEVER even played 3S, DHEvil, judging by your post. Why you would talk about a game that you know very little about it absurd. Especially on a forum where people who know even basic 3S will dismantle you, and heaven help you if an more knowledgeable 3S player reads your post and argues with you. But I’m sure you’ll throw out the typical line of “I’ve been a hardcore Street Fighter fan all of my life” as your defense.
I’m surprised that people haven’t mentioned [media=youtube]u83LQ5G5kpE&feature=related"[/media] more in this thread. Even the Duc vs Sanford featured MM a few years had a good deal of comebacks in it.
Ultras cannot possibly be good for the game. It’s an unnecessary, superfluous mechanic that can only ever possibly serve to reward a player that does not deserve it. Just because you could theoretically balance them to not be retarded doesn’t mean they’d actually be a positive influence on the game.
It’s obvious he’s a complete baddie whose first competitive SF is four - there’s nothing wrong about starting with SF4, mind you - but when you see him pretend he was a T. Hawk player back when SSF2T hit the arcades, yet calling Ultraing through a fireball on reaction “machine-like”…Well, you know you’re dealing with a winner. Knowing your place is important too, 'knawmean?
I actually wanted to play him on GGPO, we exchanged PMs about it but we live way too far from eachother for it to be worthwhile. :lame:
The standard Super Meter which increases as you attack is a Slippery slope. the more successful you are, the more moves you gain access to. In SF4; not only did you damage your opponent, but you gain access to EX moves and potentially a Super Move.
The Revenge Meter is the Antithesis to the Super Meter.
You gain EX moves and a Super for beating down on your opponent and bringing them closer to death. By winning, they gain more options to win with. This is Countered with the Revenge Meter. The Super Meter is actually allot more useful than the Revenge Meter. It gives you a steady stream of more moves to maintain your advantage with and to prevent your opponent from getting out of your traps or gaining Advantage over you.
Revenge Meter just gives you an Ultra move. While it often can turn matches completely around, generally you only get one per round and it can be wasted pretty easily, and does not carry over. Wasting an EX is not so big a deal.
The problem with the Revenge Meter in SF4 is that the top tier characters manage to have both Amazing EX options and FADC options, coupled with really easy to connect Ultras which do allot of damage. Capcom had the incorrect Mindset of making Ultras the equiv of Level 3 Supers so to speak. Bigger super moves. Instead they should have just been additional moves that can be helpful in Punishing or dealing with problem situations.
Seth has a well made Ultra. It has allot of good uses and can really change a match in a psychological way. You have to rethink what you are doing knowing Seth can use his Ultra to grab you from across the screen. However, the damage it does is actually less than his Super. It is a Utility Punish/Counter move. Also; because it is so different in damage and function from his Super, there are clear reasons to do one over the other if both meters are full.
More of the Ultras in SF4 should have been treated this way. A better use of Ryu’s Ultra would have been to give him Denjin Hadouken instead of just a bigger Fireball.
If we’re speaking specifically for SF4, someone mentioned earlier to have the Ultra meter deplete during the round. If that was the case, along with once-per-round Ultras and less damage potential, I wouldn’t mind it nearly as much. If that’s the direction the games are going, and we can’t stop it, then fine. I don’t like it, but fine.
and for real it comes down to the game and what direction the creators want it to go.
obivously for street fighter landing ultras is the name of the game, love it or hate it thats how its down. games like virtua fighter, have the guise of appearing more hardcore in the sense of you make the most of what you have and you stick to it throughout.
personally, i feel more accomplished winning through mindgames alone
I don’t usually get myself involved with other peoples’ arguments online. But your boy Devil’s posts didn’t seem to make much sense. And by checking his profile he’s 20 years old.
Meaning he was “repping T. Hawk” at the age of 5. And Sagat before then, presumably at age 3 and 4.
