yup, it should also mean that.
it’s dumb.
heres a good one: you use the same moves you would normally use, but instead you get hit a lot less and make a comeback
He didn’t read anything before his own post.
nope
cya later
Ultra’s are gained for getting hit but the moves themselves are not as fast, safe and game changing as the better ST supers. So if you could deal with a super charged character in ST then dealing with ultras should be easier.
Complaining about ultras as a comeback mechanic is funny when some games have straight up BS like TVC. When the opponent is sitting on 4 bars you aren’t even allowed to hit him!
[media=youtube]1Yg5psW642s#t=01m00s"[/media]
GGs
A comeback implies the other has already built up a significant lead so yes. You would have to do 3 times as much and spend 3 times longer doing it, and have to avoid getting hit for 3 times longer.
Tired argument. Speed and safeness of ultras don’t matter if they can be hitconfirmed off of fast safe normals and specials.
I would say Melty Blood Act Cadenza did the comeback mechanic well enough… Heat/Blood heat is manually activated and gives you benefits like: steadily regain red life, knockback to opponent if done right next to them, access to an Arc Drive or Last Arc. But depletes over time, and meter goes back to zero. The opponent has lots of options baiting that heat (panic!) activation because of that knockback and life gain, so the player must be very careful when to use them. On high-level play though they do combos that lead to safe activation.
I haven’t played Actress Again to get a feel of those new moon styles. Heat system differs depending on the moon style, crescent being basically MBAC style.
that would solve nothing.
all it would do is create different groups of players and then we’d have debates on whether or not they should be turned on during tournaments. SF woiuld basically become another joke like the smashboards where they ban half the crap in the game to make it somewhat playable.
personally I’d rather not have any comeback mechanics that specifically help the would be loser. oh shit I just got hit with a random FDAC from ryu and now I lost 50% life because I kicked his ass too much eariler in the match.
To think of it another way comeback mechanics purposefully further reward the loser player and further punishes the likely would be winning player for making a small mistake (could be a big mistake too but for the sake of the example lets go with small mistake). The risk reward ratio with these comeback mechanics is completely wack. Your giving a huge reward to a losing player for guessing right against something that should be difficult to defend against, something that the other player would feel is normally quite safe. Why should the ratios of whats safe and whats unsafe completely change just because the opponent has a potiental comeback mechanic that he can activate and beat me in 5 seconds?
think about it this way, what would happen when you took a balanced old game without as strong of a comeback mechanic and put in SF4’s? Like ST? Meaties become useless which was a main point in the game, several strong characters get even better (ryu, sagat).
-
An option to turn off comeback mechanics would be fine because the tournament standard would be to have them off. The mother’s basement standard would be to have them on. It’s not like these two groups are combined as it is.
-
Comeback mechanics smother the excitement of an ACTUAL comeback. It’s thrilling to perfect or nearly perfect a competent opponent. It also feels great to come back from the brink using the same tools your opponent used to put you in that situation.
what is the reasoning for a come back mechanic? asking for tools to make a comeback rather than create a come back is the scrubbiest shit ever. If you’re in the spot where you need to make a come back, you’ve fucked up along the line somewhere. You’ve already had a chance to stay solid and not lose life but you didn’t so now you’re stuck in this position.
mvc2\GG do a good job with their comebacks. There are no BS ultras. The high damage on loops are what creates a comeback but that damage is EARNED through a technical combo. That takes practice. The comeback tool in sf4 is an extra FB motion, thats it. You didn’t really earn it did you?
Can Ryu/Sagat hitconfirm the DP before wasting half super meter?
Ofcourse many characters can use half meter+ultra to make a jab combo into a stronger combo but it suffers from big damage scaling.
Whilst I agree that stuff like ultras and rage mode are lame, you do realise that (at least in the current versions) you gain bar whilst being hit in MvC2 right?
The thing about mvc2 is that @ top tier player you pretty much die in 1 hit or two. So if magneto hits you in the opener, sure you build bar but you may never get the chance to use it. This is never the case in sf4 ever. The other guy will always have a shot to do his ultra.
Give everyone seth health. Best comeback mechanic evarr.
I don’t think you need an obnoxious special feature for comeback mechanics, you can just design your game system in a way that can subtly help comebacks happen. To use Guilty Gear as an example, you have the burst, which you can use to escape a combo, but you still have to apply it intelligently and can be punished for using it carelessly. You also have the guts mechanic, which causes some characters to take somewhat less damage when their HP is low enough (for example, Baiken is a character who can’t survive many hits, but she has a really high guts rating that can let her hang in there longer and potentially make a comeback). You also gain some meter while taking damage, and since even 25% is valuable in GG, it can give you just enough to turn the match around.
On a more general note, although it still applies to GG, having an aggressive, offense-oriented game can lead to more frequent comebacks, as you will see obvious shifts in momentum that can change the whole course of a match. Similarly, high-damage games are more likely to see comebacks occur, although whether high-damage games are desirable or not is another debate in itself.
You could also implement something like Garou’s T.O.P bar. Although you can set it anywhere, it kind of works as a comeback mechanic. Each position and setting as its advantages and disadvantages.
Really, if you’re going to include a comeback mechanic you just have to make sure that it has a decent disadvantage.
Maybe have a War of the Gems type option where you can choose a one time use “comeback special” that’ll give you a boost in a certain area like damage or defense for a short amount of time.
Im not sure if supers are considered comeback mechanics. But I know that I do have negative feelings toward them. Well should I say the way some games do them. The best super mechanics in my opinion though you might not feel the same is the desperation mechanics seen in such games:
Fatal Fury Special/BAT/: The specials here were sort of comeback mechanics but since you or your opponent could spam them anytime you wanted to it was more of who knew how to use them better to their advantages.
Samurai Showdown: I wish SF4 Ultras would’ve been like this. They give you certain amount of time to do your Ultra or it will deplete. Just a thought. SF4 would feel more intense so to speak that way. I believe (from the heart) that this could have encouraged more aggressive based gameplay in SF4 more than the campiness which most players complain about.
So I think the eventual depletion of the super bar, or the **Negative Penalty **thing from GGXX where if both players haven’t been aggressive for a while lose some meter that would be the best way to do comeback mechanics. Keeps fighters fresh imo.
Although for not the best game I like how BB gives meter over time when you lose enough health. It’s slow enough that you don’t necessarily get free supers but still gives a good chance.
Comeback mechanics can be good. They’re just not right now. Ultras are okay but they need work. It’s as simple as that.
Mechanics like these can be just as much a part of the game as any other.
Hell, you can say the same of parries in 3S. Why did Daigo deserve to win that match Vs. Justin? I mean, he played the game so bad to the point of having a pixel of health and being in an unavoidable position (save for parries) where, by all rights, he should have lost.
But he didn’t. You know why? Because he used a powerful mechanic of the game in a skilled fashion to turn the tide. Justin didn’t respect that mechanic , made a big mistake, and for that he lost the match.
Ultras are the same. They’re not free. You have to use them right. Again, though, they’re not at a place right now that I think they should be. They need to be tweaked abit before I’m completely happy with them.
^ wtf? Parries and ultras? Sorry dude but thats not even apples and oranges, thats more like peanutbutter and washcloths, no comparison.
Parries are a central game mechanic available at all times just just blocking, jumping, dashing. Ultras are hella powerful, braindead easy to combo moves you get when you’re taking a beatdown.
meter cost wasn’t part of the argument.