I’m getting sick the Mario Kart/Party comeback comparisons. In Mario Kart, you get a powerful drop while in last place for merely participating. In SF4, you just get a full Ultra meter. The game doesn’t perform the move or set it up for you. It’s more to it than that.
To echo Mariodood’s statement, it’s basically ‘good’ players bitching about losing to a player they felt wasn’t in their league - when clearly they were bested.
In fiction, particularly anime, the hero often finds a hidden power within him to pull off a win when he was losing. The series “Gurren Lagann” specifically uses the line, “Snatching victory from defeat.” I’m not saying put it in games because another medium does it, I just wanna point out an interesting observation…
In fiction, the villain almost never acknowledges that the hero defeated them, especially after dominating for most of the match. I find an amusing parallel between that and how real people deal with losing to ‘inferior’ players because of a big comeback - artificial or not.
From my experience, few people actually play differently once rage gets started. I’d say the same tactics you used to get them in that state should be the one that gets you the win. YOu can counter rage the same way you fight normally…
Hit them more than they hit you.
Yeah, it’s an oversimplification, but no less true.
I agree with what seems to be the majority in this thread that stated why comeback mechanics are fundamentally flawed. The inherent idea of allowing a player to come back from a lost game is ridiculous from a competitive point of view- if someone’s losing he put himself into that position (by playing worse than the opponent, not being as experienced, etc) and there is no reason why he should be given anything for free.
I think it’s also fair to assume that “casuals” wouldn’t enjoy watching/playing a game without comeback-mechanics very much, especially in fighters where years of experience count for a hell of a lot.
I’m convinced developers abide a scheme similar to the following:
Listen to both competitive scene and casuals
Realize the former is but a small percentile of the playerbase and hence not worth considering too much
???
Profit
As was said, they can’t be balanced, they can only be made less terrible than in the last game…here’s hoping for lower damage ultras in ssf4.
I says before I says again: Give people a fucking option. Problem solved. Fighting games are severely lacking in the options department and can learn a lot from even your basic, feature light FPS.
No, I don’t think it’d solve anything. Sure, it can be turned off, but why would you do it? You are playing to win, you’re not going to limit yourself, you’re going to use everything you can.
Anyways, I think something like Baroque is a step in the right direction, it can help you create devastating combos if you’re losing badly, but you’re sacrificing your chances to recover life and you’re likely to be using it so often for other purposes anyways that you’re not likely to use it for a comeback combo. I also think that something like KOFXII’s Critical Counters could be good, you can lose your chance to use it with time and you actually have to work to land it, of course, it still needs some balancing though.
I don’t mean turn it off while somebody still uses his, I mean the option to modify the general gameplay engine (ie turning off radar in FPS games). This way you don’t have to deal with it period.
I can’t imagine why I had to explain that, I thought it was fairly clear…
Anyway by offering the option, having players define their own play experience, everyone is happy. That is, of course, if everyone could accept everyone being happy.
Don’t know if you’ve been reading but I’m all for the Ultra and Rage systems. I bring up the option so people can play how they want instead of bitching about it in a thread like this.
The best comeback mechanic was Killer Instinct, if you didn’t do the fatality on time, they could mash out of it and fuck your horse. Some horses were fucked and never did ride the same again. When you think of making a mechanic like this, please think of the horses.
I think that the one thing all these comeback mechanics definitely need is a time limit. I think someone said before ultra bar should slowly deplete over time, and I think for Tekken 6 the rages should work like in tag.
In my opinion for Tekken 6, you should have x amount of seconds (I think 10 sounds about right) to take advantage of your offensive boost. Comeback mechanics should encourage offense not turtling. It also makes it so the losing player has more than enough time to at least reset the match without allowing you to to get a lucky launcher + wall and win what might have been a one sided match.
I think it would also make matches more exciting when rage activates instead of seeing 2 players sidestep and whiff bait at a distance for 30 seconds until someone gets hit. With 10 second rages, at least there will always be at least one player being aggressive, either to finish someone off or take advantage of the bonus damage before it is gone.
imo sf4 did it all wrong, and marvel is close to the right direction. a game that can have huge comebacks must, in its nature, allow for huge sweeps. both those things create excitement.
after all, the comeback is the same as a sweep, only, when you’re dying.
You could use your comeback mechanic (you had a choice of 2) once per match. Each had benefits and drawbacks. Using your comeback removed your rage gauge for the match.
The only downside was when one guy had the ability to meditate, that took jumping into ridiculous levels of riskiness.
Another fix to the ultras is to make them uncomboable. I think most complaints about ultra is due to the fact some are very easy to combo, and some are near impossible.
Making all ultras uncomboable would kinda hurt a lot of characters’ options.
Instead, they should just have severe damage scaling (like -50% MINIMUM) in combos. Kind of like Meteors in EX3.
Also, being able to earn 2 Ultras per round but taking a round and a half build up a super is pure retardation.
Instead of earning it at 48% life lost or whatever it is now, make it more like 75% for the minimum damage Ultra.
It would also encourage people to absorb attacks with focus a lot more since you pretty much would HAVE to, if you wanted to use Ultra early.
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