I am constantly irritated with all the shortcuts in this game. I agree Ultras are stupid in this game. I agree reversals are way to easy. I am not asking for a new tool to make the game easier, I am suggesting a better use of Ultra meters that do the exact opposite. Instead of big splashy game ending Ultras which make super moves redundant, I am talking about small utility moves which actually require more thought to use properly and give a smaller advantage overall.
I only play SF4 because I cannot get GGPO to reliably connect anymore and there is no local competition here with exception of a few friends, my options for real life games is maybe once a month.
When I see someone play Akuma and combo into Hurricane kick, Dragon punch, FADC into fireball for a juggle I smile and enjoy playing someone who took the time to practice that. When I play an Akuma player and it is third round and I have controlled the entire round and am close to full health and they land an Ultra and I am dead out of nowhere I shake my head. Heck; his Ultra actually makes his low life an advantage and not a disadvantage since he charges it faster than most characters.
In theory I like the concept of the Revenge gauge because it counters the reward the aggressor gets for being ahead of you (EX.Super meter), however in execution it has way to much impact on the game. When the mechanic used to give people a possible comeback becomes the dominant mechanic of the game, it is broken. It is part of the reason why the game is so turtle dominant (combined with the oversized stages)
Here’s what you do vs an Akuma with meter: Stop backdashing in situations where he can do demon, do not walk up to him and focus, do not jump at him.
Now the ONLY way you can get hit by an RD is if he focuses next to you or does a highly risky guess which is about the same as any character with a fast hitting/invincible ultra.
I don’t see why people get so upset by characters getting things that create situations that limit what you can do, these types of things define street fighter
They made the Super meter like the ST bar so of course you can’t whiff normals to gain meter like in other SFs. So it didnt really get nerfed so its pretty much the same as its always been.
Now the only thing is that is much more difficult to build regardless of whiffing specials, landing blows, or not. The players will definitely have more access to their ultras more than their supers. Bet that.
Yes, but you also build meter way slower in SFIV than you do in ST. And I don’t know, but ultras don’t do a shitload of damage either. Okay if you are hit with a full ultra with no combo, yeah the damage is draw dropping. But the game has evolved to the point where most players won’t get hit by an uncomboed ultra. That is why people who have no reliable way to combo their ultra generally are lower in the tier list. Comboing ultras usually scale except if your name is Rufus or Sagat. They really aren’t the game changers people are making them out to be.
In ST the supers in that game were way more like game changers than ultras. As I said, a lot of Capcom games since ST has had metagames that revolve a lot around meter. It seems like SFIV intended to make this less of the case.
I’d hate to give a four word response but, preventing lame duck scenarios.
That said, I’m indifferent towards comeback mechanics. Being too lazy at the moment to give my opinion a proper explanation, I want comeback mechanics to be more like bursting and getting meter from taking damage/blocking, and much less like Ultras.
But one has the option to make the gameplay like that. You can have players/teams that are losers have better radar, more shield, or higher damage - while the winners play without. You can even alter a players abilities right after he respawns.
One way to allow for comebacks is simple: high damage.
Still, that doesn’t really help if you are, say, stuck in the corner and getting stomped down by your opponent’s high damage. And it certainly doesn’t help if you’re playing HnK and your opponent’s Raoh isn’t dropping sai links: it’s not much of a comeback mechanism if it’s wholly predicated on your opponent’s failure.
Being smashed to the edge of the arena in some 3D fighters is a sort of comeback mechanism, simply because certain moves might ring out the other guy instantly. Both players need to be aware of these threats and alter their tactics, because it can literally be an instant win. I don’t think you can ask for a better comeback mechanic than instant win; can you?
Rumble Fish had an interesting idea on this with the Defense Gauge, which supposedly only built by defensive actions (like blocking), and an Offense Gauge, which supposedly wouldn’t build (much) when you are getting hit, blocking, etc. The Defense Gauge could be used for a parry-like move which would cost some of the Defense Gauge, or for a Defense Art (i.e. super) that would cost all the gauge. The Defense Arts didn’t do much/any damage, and were usually things like fast reversals or combo breakers; things that you could use to get the other guy off you and turn the momentum around, but not give you a ton of damage like Ultras do.
I liked how the k-groove in CVS2 can be built up by doing just defense, so it a good player can build it up on his own. It also built up when hit, so I guy getting beat up can come back when in rage mode and he got the option to do a lvl3 super.
When I first heard the ultra system in SF4, I thought it would be similar to the k-groove, so it built up when you got hit or you can build it up with your focus attacks. What made the k-groove more to my liking was that you cannot sit on it because it went down, so once you had it was time to go on the offense.
Though i don’t know if it’s considered a comeback mechanic, since you can get it built up by getting beat, but the just defense worked really well in building it up so you don’t need to be on the losing end to have it.
so then your stuck with the bad players winning because they were given an artifical advantage so they think that they’re the shit, and the better players losing because they got caught up in some sheniagens like handicaping.
In fact if thats the route you wanna go then we already have that, handicapping ones health. no need for anything further. however its extremely stupid when people record matches that were handicapped (like 1 person plays with full health and the better player ends up playing with 10% health. Why even upload a disgrace of a match like that?
Pretty sure a) they’re not promised success even with advantages and b) they don’t think they’re “the shit”. Once again people undermine proven conventions with “be afraid”. I’ve played Halo games with the elements I spoke about, and while that certainly isn’t the way I’d play regularly, it did present an interesting meta-game that was close despite the skill of those involved. Once we got through with it, back to default games. And the Space/Time continuum goes on.
Options do not present the crisis you guys speak of. Speculation has nothing on experience, and one extreme case (Smash community) doesn’t compare to an industry wide observation.
Fighters have always had comeback mechanics. You do more damage as your health decreases. When it gets to below like 25%, you do A LOT more damage, especially in games like ST.
That’s all you ever need for a comeback system, really.
A come back mechanics is apply to level the playing field in both sides favor. Damage is defiantly one way of doing it’s not limited to that only. But that a case by case thing.
I think come back mechanics can work just fine in fighters. It’s just Ultra’s are not come back mechanics. The first step to really helping this discussion is to come to this realization.
Edit: Though I think a really easy way to fix the Ultra system would be to reverse the damage/Focus meter gain. Give less meter for getting hit and more for focusing stuff. Works with the risk reward theory a lot better, encourages use of the focus system and makes getting ultra more something you earn then something handed to you.
