False. One of the biggest evo moments of all time was the Daigo full parry moment. that was nearly 100% execution. Yes, there was tons of step up and mental chess and competition to get to that moment but what impressed everyone was the ability to execute a flawless full parry against a live opponent and win the match.
Sorry if I implied as such, the quotes were simply meant to display a degree of scorn for that kind of skill, not to say it is not a skill. As you can see if you follow the content of that and all following posts.
That’s exactly the point I raised, if you’ve been following the thread.
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The execution for that isn’t even that hard, after the initial set up most people could learn that parry without too much trouble.
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The dazzling display of execution has led thousands of casual viewers to completely miss what was actually impressive about that moment; his mental and competitive game.
The fact that “everyone” is impressed with the execution is exactly what’s wrong with having a focus on execution in games. It leads people to miss out on what truly makes the game a great game. People are entirely missing out on what was being said there. “Yeah, I’m hurt. I know you want to chip me. I know you want to get close enough so that I can’t parry this after the flash. You know I know that. We both know that’s a ridiculous, stupid idea, because we both know I’m already waiting for it. BUT. But…none of that matters. Because I know you are a broken man right now. I know I’ve broken you. I should be the one who’s broken, considering how much pressure I’ve been under for the past few minutes, but I’m not. Because I’m an ice-cold fucking machine. But you, you are a man. And you are about to make a very very stupid mistake, and I’m going to capitalize on it. And even though you know it would be a big fat mistake, you can’t stop yourself.”
Let me ask you this: after watching that video, and oohing and aahing after the flashy sparkles, did you even notice the fact that Daigo was already attempting the parry each time Justin made a movement beforehand? That for several seconds, he was basically announcing “hey I’m trying to parry”, and Justin knew that? But he still cracked and threw the super anyway? I’ll bet not, because you were distracted by the flash execution display. And I don’t blame you for it one bit; I blame the game for putting the emphasis in all the wrong places.
A game that is 100% execution (Guitar Hero) wouldn’t get any of you as followers. A game that is a minimum of execution (it’s impossible to completely remove it), would still be a great game. Many fighters have had much easier executions (early soul calibur series for example) and still been fantastic games.
i prefer SF4’s combos over any previous fighting game’s tbh, im not a fan of chain combos where you can basically just mash however many LPs or LKs possible given the situation.
i think the timing needed to preform links is a better approach that keeps players who havent put in the practice from busting out blockstrings, though i wouldent say they need to be done in 1 frame. again there are always exceptions to rules, like balrog’s “links” are so easy id almost call it a chain untill the headbutt comes out, but thats just my opinion.
Maybe we’ve moved a bit past this, but the truth is there are a number of executions in competitive Starcraft that are roadblocks on the way to becoming a better player.
The first one every player faces is the split at the beginning of the game. You may argue that a normal player can just select all of his drones and right click a mineral patch and let them sort themselves out, but in many situations the minerals lost by doing so can literally cost them the game.
The second one, which fits a lot more into your definition of execution skills, is an absolutely necessary skill to play Zerg at a high level. Mutalisks in any matchup require a basic execution to micro them well enough for them to even be remotely useful (keeping them stacked and making sure they attack in unison at their max range, which they will NEVER shoot from on their own), and in Zerg vs Zerg, the ability to micro Mutalisks to kill closeby scourge without eating any of them is a skill that players spend hours in custom maps to learn, most of the time with almost no success whatsoever.
CS may be a good example for your arguement, but Starcraft is loaded with execution tricks that take hours of training to get down to reasonable success rates, and even the top pros can struggle with some of them.
Wow, looks like I hit a nerve with some people
My personal opinion is that even 2 frame links are too difficult. Taking a broader perspective, I don’t like the additional barrier to high end play provided by any highly difficult execution in this game or in Starcraft.
When it comes to Starcraft, I’ve always preferred to play the game on “Normal” speed, so even though it takes longer you can micromanage your units. The game breaks down into a ridiculous clickfest at the highest speed
In any case, **there’s a trade off between strategy+tactics and execution **
Street Fighter 4 has a great strategic game, but the execution is a huge barrier to the strategic game. If I try to execute a blockstring, what ends up happening is I get FP SRKd out of it halfway through, so then the game just devolves into baiting and 3 hit combos
I could get better to some extent if I practice the game 4 hours a day 5 days a week, but I think that’s a waste of time
And would people still be talking about it today if that was a one button press that automatically parried every attack and countered? You think execution means nothing so you should agree with that right? Don’t fool yourself. LESS people would have been excited, when you whole argument is making execution meaningless to get MORE people into the game. You are being intentional retarded.
if they do that then it’ll change how to combo especially in chain vs. link especially if the move can be chained. it wouldn’t know if you actually wanted to chain the previous cr. lp or link it. so then, do we let guile cancel his flashkick from a chained cr. lp in a cr. lp, cr. lp->flashkick? guile’s cr. lp has a 4 frame start-up and has +4 frame advantage on hit. if we do that should every character get it?
So if Viper was the only character in SFIV…would everyone quit SFIV?
Edison is quoted as saying, “genious is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration”. In other words, thinking about something is only part of the broader picture, you’ve actually got to put in work too.
As for the folks arguing to turn SF into theory fighter or rpg fighter, let’s face it, you just want the game to be easier so you can cool more skillful. Let’s not mince words or argue about semanics, you want an easier game. They have one, with one button specials and everything. It’s called smash brothers.
Here’s a scenario that represents your ideal fighting game:
Player 1 jumps at you.
At this point, the game stops and asks player 2,
'what should you do?
A) block high
B) anti-air
C) do nothing’
after making a selction, the game would resume and would continue in this way until someone dies. After the game, the losing player would then say, ‘i would have won if I had just selected the “parry the super and counter with my own” option, because I totally kne about it, which should be the same as being able to do it’.
And for muken to downplay the full super parry? bullshit. Just because it can be done in practice mode after multiple tries, doesn’t mean it’s an easy feat. how many times has someone had the dexterity to actually do it in a high pressure situation? I count one. Just because you know you can do it, shouldn’t equate to being able to do it. If games weregoverned by that logic, why not just read every book on games and call yourself a master because you theoretically know all the strategy?
Thinkers complain. Do’ers win evo.
I don’t think MuKen is necessarily saying that execution should be ignored or removed, it’s just that people give it more credit than the steps taken to give you the opportunity to execute a wonderful combo on someone. Specifically in regard to the Daigo full parry, it’s not that the full parry wasn’t impressive in a high-stress environment, it’s just more impressive why it happened.
I don’t feel good about myself landing a cross-up 3x jab 1 frame link into fierce when I’m playing my Guile, I do feel good watching my opponent break down and begin just throwing shit out at me that’s just going to be back to back punished.
Yeah, but they broke down BECAUSE you did something skillful. Game recognize game, and if you do something known to be difficult, it makes the opponent wonder, “what have I gotten myself into? Can I win this one?”. Self-doubt like that cant be projected or instilled in your opponent with your knosledge of the game, but throughactions taken in the game. If you beat them with jumpkicks and sweeps, it would still be a win, but a win that struck fear and inspires awe? I think not.
Okay, Tekken is like this… where there is very little timing required for any combos. Why is Tekken not as popular? Or better yet, why not play Tekken if that’s what you want? A game like you’ve described is already available.
Street Fighter 4 would be so much better if I was the only person that could ever win.
:lol:
Nobody that can execute would complain about execution. People just want to be effortless SF virtuosos.
And seriously, if you want to complain about execution being too hard… Street Fighter IV? Really?
If there is such a hardcore unbreakable emphasis on execution, why isn’t Poongko the SF4 champ?
Complaining about learning match-ups makes exactly as much sense as complaining about learning combo timing.
How about, there should be no prerequisite of game knowledge. Why should someone get to win just because they spend tons of time and energy learning match-ups and game mechanics? What, just because you know the right thing to do at the right time in each match-up, you should get a huge advantage over me? Why should there be such an emphasis on knowledge?
I have really good execution, but I can’t be bothered with learning how to actually play the game, what to do, when to do it. It’s elitist to think you’re better just because you take the time to learn how to counter my moves. I can do huge damage combos, but i can never land them because some elitest prick keeps countering my combo starter.
This argument is exactly as stupid as the argument against execution.
I don’t mind 1 frame links at all. What I do mind is getting the timing down on the 360 and being afraid that the timing might be different if I go play on the PS3, or arcade. As the other user said, the timing could vary. For that reason it’s slightly unreasonable, especially when missing certain 1-frame links can cost you the entire game.
I play on 360 at home. Our arcade has SF4 on PS3.
It’s the same shit.
combos in this game are easy, it’s like DDR for children…
play blazeblue, guilty gear, cvs2 or virtua fighter, those games need execution.
Yeah, I’m sure you do full parries at EVO against Justin Wong all the time.:tup:
So let me get this straight. Full parries in 3S are super easy, but the execution in SF4 is way too hard… ummm… yeah…
Because in the end the game is about making your opponents health go down to 0 regardless of how you achieved it; mind games, perfect execution etc.
Agreed. I use a pad and I don’t have much trouble with links, only one that I’m not consistent with is Abel’s F.MK > Dash > Standing Fierce but I’m getting there.
The game isn’t just about Mindgames and out-thinking your opponent, and It’s not just about having perfect execution. It’s both of those things. Most top players have both of these qualities.
Hell, check out HDR. You know how deep a jumpkick has to be in order to combo off of it? Compare that to SFIV. Easy mode. Seriously.
Let’s create a helmet peripheral that can control your character based on the moves and combos you know of/about. THAT should make the playing field more even. Oh wait, now we’re not catering to the mentally retarded and comatose folks. What if they’re actually really good at street fighter too, but being incapacitated means they can’t display their talent?
Worst Cop-out for losses. Ever.