**My opinion: **The timing required for the combos you need to play at a reasonably competitive level is a way excessive in this game. That is to say, you’re at a major disadvantage if you can’t pull off “basic” 5 part combos like with Akuma, c.LK c.LP HP into BnB. Note that this involves 15-48 millisecond windows for inputting commands between 1/60th and 1/20th of a second is not a reasonable input time frame
What are your thoughts on the timing in this game? Should the timing be as hard as it is or maybe even harder to punish new/clumsy players, or should it be less strict to provide a more strategic game?
It’s fine the way it is. They give you absurd windows to input everything, sometimes so much so that something else you’d like to do turns into something else because it happens to fit in that window. (Spinning back-fist as guile occasionally comes out as a sonic boom even after letting go of holding back for “apparently not long enough”)
Combos will be harder for pad players to pull off though because we’re just using a thumb for 4 face buttons as opposed to stick players that have so much versatility on their side.
I mean, I main Chun and it’s virtually impossible to execute some of her Lightning Leg set ups on a controller.
I don’t play SFIV competitively or even intend to. But I will be getting a TE eventually, more important stuff just keeps coming up.
Oh and if you’re a stick player and are having trouble with certain links … Then I don’t know what to tell you.
That’s a different subject, I think just about everyone can agree that the game’s a little too lax on how you can input your specials while not in the middle of a combo
My beef is that you have these absurd 15-60 ms windows to hit a button in order to link one hit into another, and if you f up by 1/20th of a second you get a shoryuken in the balls. Just seems pretty far out of line to me
No it’s not a different subject, it really matters what you’re using to play. Do you use a stick or a pad?
You see on a pad it’s very difficult to consistently move your thumb back and forth on all 4 face buttons to execute certain BnB combos. On a stick you have your whole right hand available to hover over 6 buttons.
Most capcom games have had these crazy links, it’s nothing new. Eventually it’ll become muscle memory and you won’t have those issues again.
Oh and, if you’re not confident about certain links, do not risk them. Every character has reasonable BnB combos that do decent damage.
I think that it should be less strict. Kind of like how Reversals and throws are; easier to be more accessible, but not over done so that they’re overpowered or pointless.
Also, certain moves just need to be changed. Gen Kekiro move should NOT be so hard to pull off. Not only does it suffer from damage scaling, but you miss out on a decent amount of damage if you screw up even one input.
It’s fine, you’re just hoping to be better than you are without having to put in the effort. The game is very very strategic, but when you’re beginning though it’s usually whoever has the better execution is crowned winner. Practice it dude. I practiced links for about an hour a day for a month before I felt like I could use them at all and it’s still quite iffy in matches. If you want mashable combos you should probably play T6 or SC4
well, 3 frame links are generally piss easy, 2 frame ones are still easy once you get the rythm (offline or anything with 4 or 5 bars online).
The only difficult ones for me are 1 frame links, am not consistent with those but I can play just as well without even risking to try them in a real fight. With most characters you can play on a competitive level without ever using 1 frame links.
I think the timing is perfect as it is, i just would like capcom to get rid of the damn shortcut system in the next game
As a pad player I find the hardest combos to pull off are the ones that involve rapid inputs like HHS, legs etc.
Tekken is actually a very good game, the reason alot of people don’t like it is because of ground pounding and 40% life juggles. I don’t know what the beef is with sol cal online though, I’ve had mostly smooth matches on that game. Then again, when the game lags and you’re facing Kilik :bluu:
the thing is, becoming proficient requires that kind of dedication. But if you already know how to play musical instruments, the skills transition over well. :rock:
sigh If only every link gave you the luxury of 1/20th of a second. :-p
ahkeen is right. If you’re playing on pad, you have no right to complain. The combos that you’re trying to do are above your level of execution or just really hard to land on pad.
That said, combos should be hard to pull off. I shouldn’t get a free 400 damage on someone just because they left themselves open. I should have to like, execute a move.
My advice to you is give up on the bigger combos and use shorter ones instead. Cut out a move or two or use different ones to get to the end result, which with Akuma is lk.tatsu -> hp.srk.
I feel the button inputs are fine the way they are, but the joystick inputs room for error is too lenient. Personally, I think if anything other than the specific joystick command needed for a move is input, a special should not come out. The auto block string crap is bogus, as well.
all I want is the change of all 1 frame links to 2 frames. It still means you have to practice, but it’s not so crushingly depressing at the beginning.
As others have mentioned, 1-Frame links are an issue (and 2-Frame links somewhat) - imo the over-strict timing required for them takes away from the game instead of adding to it. There are many players who dislike that CAPCOM has decided to include 1 frame links into the game, which as a result almost immediately removed hundreds of possible combo and strategy possibilities from the vast majority of players’ repertoire.
To those saying stuff like “practice more”: some people (including me) have done extensive software testing with 1 frame links on the PC version of the game with programs/scripts (at a rock solid 60fps), and not even macro software could hit 1-Frame links 100% of the time. (my results were about 88/100 of the time, which met the result of other people who were also running similar tests independently). And that’s offline, imagine online - ugh.
Basically there are other factors outside of CAPCOM’s control which decide if a frame is being drawn or not (such as the videocard drivers, the back buffer of frames, a possible frame skip, opponent lag etc) causing these issues. Sadly fighting games are built upon “animations with respect to frames”, unlike most other games which are built upon “animations with respect to time”.
The 1-Frame links instead of adding to the complexity of the game, imo instead take away from it as most users who would have used those moves if they were 2-10 frame links instead just give up on them. Not to mention that in online play (which is probably 85% of the multiplayer SF4 which takes place in the Western world) 1 frame links are horribly unreliable.
I suppose if you were heavily involved in local offline tournaments, or happen to live in the Oriental world (like Japan/Korea where arcade play is the norm) then it does not seem so bad. But that’s maybe 15% of the SF4 playerbase, its the other 85% who would like the online experience to not have to suffer due to design decisions such as this.
Not to shoot my argument in the foot, but this could be related to the way you’re scripting
If you’re just using windows APIs like SendInput, they can easily be off by 5 milliseconds, and if you’re using some scripting tool that isn’t 100% accurate you could easily drift by 50+ ms over the course of a long combo
You’d need some sort of virtual device driver that emulates a keyboard in order to be completely sure your inputs are fast enough
No, you’re absolutely right - not to mention different processors have different ways of handling very small time values, some processors up 1-4 ms time increments to 5-10 ms increments depending on their architecture. (an interesting side effect of this is that the time window for certain links may actually be very slightly different between the 360, PS3 and PC). And yes, using windows APIs on top of that can even cause even more inaccuracies.
However at the end of the day, I agree that whether or not a button was pressed within a 15ms window should not at all be the deciding factor as to a successful link or not. It is just way too strict of a time-frame, which makes it almost useless online due to latency, and useless offline for the vast majority of people who play the game.
If every 1-Frame link was converted to a 2-Frame link (hell or even 3) it would open up a higher standard of gameplay to tens of thousands of players who have given up on 1-Frame links (and probably given up on competitive play) due to their insane strictness.
It’s like replacing the ball in basketball with a tennis ball and reducing the hoop to 3 inches and saying ok the game is better now because it takes more skill. As other top competitive games (like counterstrike and starcraft) have proven over the past decade - you can have a highly competitive and skillful game without impeding its accessibility by a great amount. 1-Frame links have impeded upon SF4’s accessibility to competitive play way too much.