Cody can kind of blow up stand-tech. Cr LK xx HP Criminal Upper is actually pretty frightening to get hit by. You nail that twice you’re looking at like… close to 300 damage. That’s not to say that people can’t block Cody all day, but he’s not free to it. Cr LK xx HP Criminal Upper isn’t hit confirmable, though. You’re basically going to have to condition your opponent to stand tech. Which is what Toward FP, jump-in’s and throws are for. You start making them walk backward and guessing you can nail some respectable damage.
But it is true that Cody can struggle against hard defense. And yes, he does demand a lot of good defense on the part of the player. It’s very easy to get into hot water getting impatient or making snap wake-up decisions betting on bad-spray, ex-crim or ex-zonk. I pay for doing those just as much as I benefit from them. But hey, Cody’s gotta do something when he’s receiving pressure.
Has it even been confirmed that Cody lost his throw invincibility on the EX Criminal Upper? Or is everyone just going off what some dude thought he felt?
Even if it has, the EX Criminal upper is much better as an attack reversal than a throw reversal. You can do other things to deal with throws (nj, backdash, EX zonk, tech). Just cuz pushback got reduced is no reason to panic. When you block an ex messiah, or a shoryuken, you are able to land a heavy punish. That’s all capcom has done here. When an EX CU got blocked before, most characters could only punish him with a poke/sweep of some kind. Now since it is a legit attack reversal, if it gets blocked he’ll also be eating a heavy combo too. Which is fair.
Now please get yourselves together guys and stop trying to revert EX CU back to AE 2012(when we’re not even certain that it lost throw invul). You’ll ruin a good move. I, for one, become enraged when I spend an EX bar on a move only to have it stuffed.
Forgive my misunderstanding. Maybe my knowledge on paper isn’t adequate but It’s called getting knowledge on your oppnents tendencies. When he/she stand techs, cr. short/combo, sweep, ghetto slide ect can take care of it, forcing them to cr. tech. You got to mix it up. Also Cody’s armour breaking moves at a close distance are optimal for keeping focus attacks in check. I like to use the MK Ruffian as the best. Like I posted before, Cody as a character depends more on the player than some other characters.
Confirmed from the notes at location tests. We ARE certain it lost throw invincibility. Also it still can be stuffed as it’s only invincibile 1-6F, you just can’t stuff it AS easily since it becomes active on the same frame it loses strike/projectile invincibility. It’ll still get stuffed by a lot of lower profile attacks and jump ins as the hitbox on the first part of the attack isn’t particularly large.
You’re mistaken on the damage.
Let me break down some of the most common combos for multiple characters including Cody
Cody:
crLP - crLP - crMP - HP Criminal Upper (Full Hits): 200dmg 334 stun (one of his best hit confirm combos but you only get that much damage against about half the cast and only point blank.)
crLP - crLP - crMP - HP Criminal Upper (Only Tornado): 158 damage 285stun.
crLP - crLP - crLP - crLK - HP Criminal Upper: 166dmg 307stun
crLP - crLP - crLP - crLK - MK Ruffian: 148 damage 235stun
crLP - crLP - crMP - MK Ruffian: 179 damage 250stun
clsHP - crMP - HP CU : 288 damage 476stun (assuming all hits)
F+MP - crMP - HP CU: 248 damage 376stun (assuming all hits)
F+MP - clsMP - crHP - HP CU (his best combo without a jump in): 322dmg 514stun
EX Zonk - FADC - F+HK - EX CU: 296dmg 494stun
clsHP - crMP - HP CU - FADC - crLP - clsMP - crHP - HP CU: 378 damage 639stun
(I don’t want to even bother with her FADC combos I think you get the point, she hits hard.)
Cammy
clsHP - crMK - HK Spiral Arrow: 246 damage 394stun
crHP - crMK - HK Spiral Arrow: 251damage 444stun
clsHP - farMP - HK Spiral Arrow: 261 damage 394stun
crLK - sLP - crMP - crMK - MK Spiral Arrow: 208 damage 340stun
clsHP - crMP - crMK - MK Spiral Arrow (char specific unless opponent is crouching): 272 damage 435stun
That is without getting into her dive kick stuff.
Juri
crLK - crLK - sLP - crMK - HK Pinwheel (only works if opponent is standing already due to sLP whiffing most but not all crouchers): 190 damage 303stun
crLK - crLK - crLK - MK Pinwheel: 142 damage 231stun
clsMP - Fuhajin release - crHP - Fuhajin release - crMK - HK Pinwheel (requires you prep with fuhajins before hand): 341 damage 484stun
crMP - Fuhajin Store - EX Pinwheel (corner only): 240 damage 241stun
crMK - Fuhajin store - fuhajin release: 160damage 200stun
That barely scratches the surface of the things she can do with Fuhajin fireballs, she has some crazy FADC combos too and her FSE stuff.
Seth
crLK - crLK - crLP - crMP - MK Spin Kick: 178 damage 300stun
clsHK - crMP - MK Spin Kick: 276 damage 420stun
crHP (both hits) - LP DP (delayed cancel, no followups.) - 3x air stomp - dive kick: 282 damage 456stun
crHP (both hits) - MP DP - 1x MP DP Followup - 2x air stomp - dive kick: 295 damage 435stun
crHP - HK Spin Kick : 240 damage 400stun
HP SPD : 150 damage 200stun
Tanden Engine - clsMP - clsHP - HK Spin Kick: 297 damage 460stun
Tanden Engine - clsMP - clsHP - HK Spin Kick - 3x Stomps - Dive Kick (requires opponent is in the corner after the HK Spin kick, can be done at about 1/3rd before the corner and still get it.): 392 damage 590stun
Tanden Engine - clsMP - clsHP - Sonic Boom - FADC - clsMP - clsHP - HK Spin Kicks - 3x Stomps - Dive Kick: 437 damage 685stun
@AuLord Yeah I know he can “kind of” blow up stand techs, that’s why I wrote “almost at all”. They are however extremely risky and shit. Delayed cr.lp xx cr.lp, cr.lp xx cr.lk, cr.lp xx EX CU, cr.lp xx MK and LK Ruffian and cr.lp xx U1,U2. The thing is, you know how those moves can be punished. How about this scenario: You’re playing against a good Sagat, you really struggle with his zoning and his stand teching. You curse about how lacking Cody’s walkspeed is and he’s ability to deal with Sagat’s zoning. So after you’ve gruelling made some counter-hit pokes to take some of his health, and have scored a knockdown, you think OK, he has stand teched the whole round. You do the safe jump, and do cr.lp, and then even delay the cr.lk xx HP CU, but he still blocks. You know what happens next? You lose over 500 health due to that read. Good luck now doing a comeback, but hey, it’s fair.
@Touchdown I was pretty hungover and annoyed when I wrote that reply, so I’m sorry that I came off rude. So I’m gonna explain some of this posts misunderstandings to properly educate you to why the things we are discussing are so crucial:
You cannot do a ghetto slide after a cr.lp, you will be thrown from it.
You cannot do a sweep after cr.lp, you will be thrown from it.
You cannot do ect [SIC] after cr.lp, you will be thrown from it.
You cannot force the opponent to crouch tech without doing the extremely risky and so hugely punishable, cr.lk xx special move.
The reason for this is frame data. Do you know what that is? It basically tells you how much you are at an advantage or disadvantage after a move being done. So let’s say that you would like to do a sweep after cr.lp. The reason why I write that you can’t, is because of frame data. cr.lp is +2 on block, and cr.hk has a 7 frame startup. That means that the opponent has 5 frames inbetween these two moves, which enables him to jab or throw you guaranteed. Besides, cr.hk is -9 and cr.mk is -6, so you will eat a LOT of damage for throwing them out there at high level play. Look at Momochi, he NEVER did that due to this fact.
MK Ruffian is “ok” dealing with Focus Attacks, that’s true. The thing is, dealing with focus attacks is not really that hard anyways and I couldn’t care less if they don’t buff that region of his game. What I however would like to see, is them dealing with stand techs. It’s basically unfair at the moment how limited his options are compared to other characters who play like him.
@KingVaroon The difference between EX Messiah and EX CU is simply that EX CU Is not a legit reversal. It will still lose to meaty attacks. That’s why @Eternal though it is unfair that even though it will still be pretty bad, they also made it so extremely unsafe.
Can someone please point me to these notes where it says it lost throw invincibility. I haven’t seen them anywhere yet.
I use this move to blow up crouch techs, so I would say worse comes to worse you’ll get a trade, not a stuff on low attacks.
Also, I must also add that I’ve beaten Seth’s Jump HK with the first part of the attack before, so I wouldn’t be so sure about it getting stuffed by “a lot” of jump ins.
I’m not saying it won’t ever get stuffed, I just don’t think it will be “easily” stuffed as a lot of you guys are assuming.
I will still take this move the way it is now over it’s previous version, where nearly ANY meaty attack could stuff it.
Capcom never released official notes to the public. The notes were compiled from people who went to the event and saw the notes that Capcom only showed privately to those who attended location tests (Myself included.)
@Eternal - actually the big green box is the space cody occupies (keeps him from going through characters). I’ve seen these before. It might not look like much, but from personal experience, it hits crouchers/most low attacks just fine. I do realize there are exceptions, certain attacks will still go under it. But I still feel the moves current application (getting out of frame traps/pressure) is far more useful than its previous one(throw invincibility)
@GroundedSF - so how often did you use this move to beat throws? everytime you thought your opponent was going to throw you, you threw out an EX Criminal Upper? some dude knocks you down and stands right next to you waiting for your wake up, do you charge EX Zonk/backdash/nj/block/tech or dial out an EX CU?
Actually, if I have the meter and I sniff a throw or tick-throw set up? I dial out myself a piping hot EX-criminal upper to the jaw. Generally it works. Sometimes it even beats late active meaties. It’s a good move. Sometimes I go for EX-zonk. It really depends, but yeah, EX-criminal is definitely excellent for blowing up tick strings and throw attempts. I actually do use it almost exclusively for those scenarios. That’s what it’s meant for to me. It’s kind of a bootleg shoryuken, and it costs meter.
@Eternal - You’re right. I didn’t see the second picture when I made that post. But I still feel the moves current application (getting out of frame traps/tick pressure) is far more useful than its previous one(throw invincibility)
Usually it would be block or delay tech, although I suppose that depends on the opponent. EX Zonk is fine sometimes, but there are plenty of times you’ll be knocked down and it’s virtually impossible to react in time to charge it. I rarely backdash unless it’s clear the opponent isn’t option-selecting against it. Neutral jump (or any jump) on wakeup is rarely a good idea. Personally I prefer to try and tech throws as much as possible and use EX CU occasionally to discourage opponents from abusing throw, but more importantly EX CU in its current form is a huge help against command throws because of the combination of unthrowable + pushback on block putting you out of throw range.
I generally use EX zonk as opposed to EX CU. i’m usually holding down zonk when i’m in hitstun/blockstun just in case I am knocked down. But then again I don’t really use any EX on wakeup unless I really want them to calm down or remember I have options.
but really. just block lol. Especially if they’re safe jumping/OSing you (which is what this game is anyway). both lose to those anyway and which is why we’re at this situation on a somewhat decent reversal on wakeup.
There is a difference here, Cody dropping the knife on focus is intentional, it actually has a very specific “Drop Knife” command on first frame of focus/throw/taunt/ultra/super. Sagat’s U1 in the corner was a glitch due to a single number being set as a negative value when it needed to be set to be a positive value.
