as Much as I’d like both, i can’t see him having both without being top tier and having a whole horde of bandwagoners coming aboard just so we can go through this nerfed to shit again with SF5
This is what I’m asking for, although this is only one frame of the animation. Obviously, the hitbox would follow the animation on all active frames.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2246/crhp1.jpg
Edit: If this doesnt combo with sHP, i’d recommend enlarging it down+right just enough until it combos
First rule of Street Fighter: DON’T JUMP.
First rule of fighting Vega in Street Fighter 4: JUMP.
This needs to be fixed. There is pretty much zero risk in jumping in on Vega then pressuring from there, while making more jumps at random to close the gap when pushed out during your mixups. Wheras against any other character you must worry about their AAs when making stupid jumps and also must second-guess your offense against their reversals, committing to a jump is the best thing to do against Vega. The risk/reward is way out of wack: you might get bopped by 1 little air to air, oh no, but an uncontested jump against Vega means you probably win the round.
And then consider the skill it takes to make a jump and pressure Vega (none at all, any scrub can jump) and how early Vega must react to a jump, the moment their feet leave the ground, and it’s just a stupid situation to be in. Vega needs to be focusing on their jump in order to react with an nj.HP or jump back MP in time in most matchups, meanwhile the opponent can just do a retarded lolderp jump at any time without thinking and win. Air to airing w/Vega is hard and takes concentration / fast reaction, but jumping is the easiest thing to do in SF. Seriously, Vega is countered by the stupidest thing you could do in Street Fighter. That’s fucked up.
I still say the best way to handle it is to make c.HP and s.HK into situational anti-airs, as opposed to useless non-functional anti-airs. Vega should be able to AA with those moves if it’s from a spacing where the tip of the limb hits. c.HP if they’re very far away, s.HK if they are a bit closer. (This is how AAing with most characters work, you have to judge the distance and pick the right normal for the jump.) However, to keep Vega from being OP (dominating ground AND anti-air game), make it so that he still has no effective anti-air when it’s aimed at his chest/head. This will make it so he has anti-airs against the stupidest jumps, but still has to pay attention if he wants to reaction air-to-air.
Golfguden has a good point tho. A reversal would give people a reason to actually hesitate and second guess during frame traps. As is it, dive kick characters have no reason NOT to dive kick a lot of Vega. What is he going to do, random Ultra? When you’re in on Vega, you get to press all the buttons you want, there’s pretty much zero risk.
Oh, wow. Yes, that’s an amazing anti-air. With that, I’m not sure what option I’d prefer (well, I’d prefer what I posted on the first page, for funsies).
This is the adjusted cr.hp I imagined, and I’d take i-frames over that in a heartbeat.
I probably should be a bit more specific in my post then on CU. When Vega opens up Thurs I’ll post pics of hit/hurt boxes accordingly
I love getting anti aired by Juris and guys cr. punch that is shoulder height
This would be the opther option if they didnt want to, or couldnt change the angle
screw it
stupid delayed and double post
Don’t need to worry about such petty things as “bandwagoners” ain’t no body got time fo dat. You’re prolly expecting a lil bit to much of what you think people reactions will be if we have both. I t might too long before we have SF5 so we might as well have both now and forget people about what they would think about Vega, there are way more character that will be talked about more than vega. 
I really like how Dieminion organized his post about Guile. http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29822783/guile-balance-suggestions?post_num=326#530172761
Yea that’s a great idea, you need to show Capcom that we are just using just a little half of his claw.
LRN2FOTZIE
seriously, only time peeps should jump on you is when you are on the floor.
C’mon dudes, its 2013, not 2008 - 2009
Would Vega need any changes to his start up if Vega gets a bitter hitbox on his cr.hp?
Or any other Framedata changes I know Vegaman already said making cr.mk to 5 and someone said Comsic heel going back to SUPER or Vanilla any other things?
I don’t want to make the move a crutch and considering the usefulness it’d have, increasing the startup to 6 frames would remove the comboability of the move completely. Decreasing the startup to 4 frames would mean he’d have 2 4 frame heavy normals, I’d rather keep the startup at 5 frames.
cLP becoming +5 on hit would be the next thing I’d ask for on my list and I’m seriously considering adding it. Only other request I’d have would be to reduce the recovery on sHK… which if cHP didnt get buffed then sHK would definitely need a decrease in recovery by almost half.
I am confused. People say that don’t want to make Vega top tier and then they want Claw with a godlike AA move.
Really, when I ask for AA is something to stop people jumping at me no matter what. If I have charge they can jump anyway and all I have to do is hope that I will at least trade. Because to make it trade I have to react REALLY fast. If I have I-Frames they may doesn’t react to the crouching animation (ST charges in 42f) or at least they have to walk through our crMK/MP/LP. Either of those crHP and Claw will be WAY too good at zoning. No zoning character has mix ups nearly as strong as Claw’s. He can’t have such a good AA.
Vegaman, I don’t understand how the invencibility of the legs on EX ST that start on the 4th frame and goes until the 8th could make the EX ST a Reversal move. It still would be stuffed by a jab (and the head/torso would be vunerable during all move).
Also, ST doesn’t have terrible recovery, that is Flash Kick. ST has the same recovery of stHK. Its still can be punished by Ultra, but it has to be Reversal. Its -12/-15 if the FIRST hit connects. It can get to -8/-11. Which is no worst than an st.HP or something.
Also, pedoviejo. Claw needs to stop using Claw Throw accidentally. It happens to everyone. Also, he needs the help of Mask Throw to make comebacks.
And yeah. I forgot about the negative edge SHC stuff. That shit must be exorcised from this game.
but its a non issue when you look at the whole of the picture.
People need to stop being satisfied with that shit sandwich Capcom has been doing since SSF4. Just because it comes with peanuts this time, doesn’t mean you should jump at it. Demand real change, not trivial changes that do nothing to address the issues that plague this character.
You are right with the negative edge, that shit needs to be nuked to hell and back and back again. Its retarded, and that costs more games than accidental mask/claw throw
People are demanding “trivial changes” and “real changes” together.
that godlike AA that can still get crossed up, comes out in 5 frames and only has 2 active frames (which surprised me cause I thought it had 3 till i checked just now) and recovers in 27 frames? It’s not as good as Juri’s and Juri isnt top tier for her cMP. On top of that she has another decent normal to AA with and can also EX pinwheel for a reversal.
Giving claw a good AA will not make him top tier. He already has good AA’s. The difference is that cHP removes the requirement of jumping enabling you to stay on the ground. This is an offensive buff, that reduces the risk for attempting to keep the opponent out, while setting up almost optimal spacing. That’s it. does nothing for wakeup. does nothing for crossovers. does mediocre for neutral jumps. is -6 on hit if they aren’t airborne (but due to pushback can be hard to punish).
Claw has 1 mix up right now. It’s a throw or no throw mix up. So I dunno what other mix ups you’re talking about. His overhead isnt comboable (although to try to NOT make claw’s main way of dealing damage being from throws, and single hit crap, i’m asking for it). He doesnt have a dp or dp similar move, and the closest thing to dp requires charge and isnt FADC-able. He dosnt have a reliable crossover (not counting wall dives, we all know 95% of wall dive use isnt solid game play). He doesnt have a projectile. So… I’m not seeing these awesome mixups and zoning tools that Vega has. Especially when people can just focus through over half of his moves. If Focuses were not in the game I’d agree with you and say his zoning game is a bit strong with that cHP along with the hitbox extensions I’m asking for. With focuses??? no. It’s fine. That’s why i didnt ask for cHP for SFxT v2013 for Vega. He doesnt really need it.
I kinda wasnt responding to you on the i frames starting on frame 4 as opposed to the i frames starting on frame 1. I was referring to the people that wanted it as a reversal (can’t remember who and not going back a page to look). To directly respond to i frames starting late on ST… I think it’d be a useless buff, except for the instances where you catch someone neutral jumping at point blank range. I don’t like the fact it requires charge. The idea is to provide an incentive for people to get off down back lol, not do it more.
Edit…
Ran across this trying to find an example of SHC coming out on release. Cause… you know, Vega doesnt need a grounded AA. Jozhear shoulda just air to air’d. (btw the cHP I asked for would have stopped the first 3 of those after the jump in on wakeup)
@2:35 since timestamps dont work
Giving claw an AA is not going to make him top tier.
Did you just complain about people wanting to give Vega a godlike AA…and then ask for one that stops jumping entirely? Bro, Cody’s and Sakura’s got a good AA but people can still jump with the right spacing. What you’re asking for is stupid and won’t ever happen.
snort You mean like Ibuki or Seth or Cammy or hell even Balrog, right?
Also why are you still yammering about sitting on downback for an invul move. You’re Claw, your character design isn’t to sit on your ass all day as if you were Guile or Honda. You keep moving, You charge as you pressure, it’s really that simple. I shouldn’t be having to type this.
You REALLY need to get your frames straight, bro.
I haven’t had this happen to me since Vanilla SFIV, what in god’s name are you doing to get that?
This is just about the only execution issue from which I ever suffer and nowadays it only tends to be online under lag. I think I may have got it once in a blue moon offline. Possibly because I taught myself to not hold buttons.
Seriously, all I got from this post was a lot of whining and not a lot of input.
They are already situational anti-airs, designed to work exclusively against far jump-ins. The example of sHK illustrates very well what developers had in mind when designing Claw’s AAs. There are two hitboxes, one for it’s close version, and another for the far one :
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3470/clawshkdesignarcadia.jpg
The far one is decent. I’ve stopped countless air tatsus with it. It’s not great, trades often, but does the job.
But the close one… IS DESIGNED NOT TO AA. The nerf is so obvious compared to far one, close sHK won’t work against anything coming above Vega. It will lose even to the shittiest jump-ins hitboxs in the game.
And cHP is the same, it’s only functionnal VS opponents coming from the front, not from above.
So it is obvious they did not want Vega to have an up-close AA, specially not one not requiring charge. However, they will situationally work against jump-ins landing very far from Claw, but not any closer. =)
+1
I’m a ready to accept Claw not having grounded AA as character design. But why should I accept him being the only character not having decent reversal when spending a bar in it ? Even only if it’s armor and not true invincibility, Abel style, it would still do. =)
+1 about changes, and +100 about Negative edge, which is a plague for any char aside Juri and Gouken.
I disagree, he hasn’t any decent grounded AA. If you look at ST’s hitboxes, they are as pitiful as close sHK’s.
But I’m sure you meant air to air. Air to air hitboxes are great for Vega, but they are quite slow. Most of them require 5 to 6 frames startup, added to jump startup (4-5 frames). Which means they need more than 10 frames to start, which means you have to go for the ones aiming above Vega. And there, you have njLK (which does whiff 8/10 times due to shitty range), or njMP (which does whiff often as well 'cause hitting too high). If you go for bjMP, then you have a great hitbox against anything in front of you… but against close jump ins, with 10 fs startup, opponent will arealdy be in top of your head, which is unprotected.
So… air to air is good when already being in the air, or foreseeing a jump, but it’s not great against up-close jump-in pressure, for speed reasons. =)
I beg your pardon, but you might be underestimating our opponents. Even if you’re aggressive minded (as I am), you’ll still be facing players just waiting you to be close enough to land the first blow (or jump, for instance against Claw). Who has never taken a karathrow against a decent Ken ? Who never had to block a meaty armored charge against a rog ? Who has never been KD against a good Ryu ?
One KD is all they need, until you have U2 then can keep pressuring you until you guess wrong inbetween blocking, evading, and teching. I’ve faced really skilled shotos, and it’s just plain arrogance to pretend not having to downback against them. Throw or tech, that’s the deal at every knockdown. And if you’ve faced only the ones not OSing backdashes, then you’re very lucky.
If you look at Jozhear’s tourneys and FT5s, you’ll see that iron defense is required for Vega players to win. That’s why he lost to Daigo so badly, that’s why he improved after it. Blocking and guessing until the rush runs out of gas. And among those, I-frames would allow not having to guess between normals and throw, which is huge.
That’s the difference between facing meterless Abel, and one with EX stocked. The first one is a big victim as soon as he’s KD. Rushing the second one in a similar fashion would end in a 50-60% reset in his favor… with a high probability of getting that 900 stun which signs the end of the match for Claw.
Btw, 900 stun is a bit low considering scholar girls have 950. We could ask for a little buff to it as well. =)
That isn’t the point that I’m making.
Vega isn’t designed to sit on downback, so they won’t give him a normal that aids in that. We had a relatively OK anti-air in U2 for less than a year before they nerfed it.
Kara throw teching has ass all to do with anti-airing, so I don’t even know why you’re mentioning that, nor the other examples, since we’re specifically talking about Vega with an Anti-air in this part.
I don’t think I’ve ever faced a Ryu that DOESN’T OS backdashes, it’s that bloody easy to do.
Without sounding too much like Moriarty because I’m a Sherlock nut, but THAT’S WHAT PEOPLE DO.
Seriously.
It’s a no brainer. Vega has always needed a pilot with solid defense.
It’s how he was designed.
Also, Abel is pretty even in matchup, meterless or not.
I will agree though that 900 stun is low considering his stun deal isn’t high. Like, for example, before Bison’s nerf on his scissors stun, his low stun rate was deserved since he dished it out very very quickly.
Vega, I never quite understood, let alone the handicap of having his health/range nerfed upon equipment loss seeing as he can still be out-poked with his claw on by characters without said handicap.
Edit: about the aggressive Vega thing, I assume you’ve never seen me play. I don’t believe in sitting on downback until I have a huge lifelead and my opponent’s refusing to come near me because if you want to run the timer down whiffing shit and throwing fireballs at the end of the screen hoping I’ll chase you so you can DP FADC > Ultra a lifelead, lol good luck, I’m not so easily baited.
I keep in motion. Because that’s what Vega has to do. Pressing aggression is my favourite thing about him.
Ultimately what we need is for an opponent’s jump ins to be more risky.
juggle state, faster air normals, more damage and stun, or even an airthrow with a real techable knockdown we can run safe jumps and meaties off of …
I would prefer the juggle state though like xtekken
