You didn’t say any nerfs in your post on CapU. We might as well ask for it anyways, it doesn’t seem unreasonable not too.
I wish CH and PoM had 1 frame less of recovery.
Better AA options.
I wish nk.HK left opponent in a float state or did more damage so I could punish a mindless jump in a little harder.
or
Airthrow could startup a little closer to the ground.
or
cr.HP or st.HK had a higher hitbox and lower hurtbox so I could use it as an anti air.
or
ST had invincible frames against air attacks.
Yea what you said can fix a lot of annoying stuff that’s not supposed to happen in the first place, hopefully capcom fix that random highclaw stuff vegaman brought up, it happens too much.
Idk know about yall but Vega U2 as a AA has been horrible for me even when people jump in stupid when im charging, they really could fix his hitbox on it to AA properly.
I was looking at Vega hitbox on his normals and they really need to fix that stuff, were are not even using the full length of his claw just a lil bit half of it, might as well fight without it.
eventhubs.com/images/2011/sep/30/vegas-hit-box-information-super-street-fighter-4-arcade-edition-image-1/
Do you have any ideas on how to fix Vega wake up game?
Didn’t you say you quit SFIV?
I did and I still “quit” SF4. I also said…
So… yeah, if they make Vega a bit more “fun” type feel and a little less “work” type feel I’m likely to come back.
I said increased recovery on SHC. Something that I think we could all agree on that would be just as useless of a nerf as it was a buff, and also appeal to people who view that move as spammable.
One of the reasons I’m reluctant to asking for ST to have i-frames, is because it requires charge. I would rather have less damage on a move that I could do while walking. if cHP were fixed properly, you can literally say “fuck you” to non-crossover, dive kick/throw mixups. This combined with PoM +4 on hit can enable you to continue your own offense if you wish. Buffing ST to have i-frames does almost nothing to address this problem as any half intelligent person facing you will just NOT JUMP when you have charge. If ST is to have i-frames it should function as a reversal. I would rather have the ability to keep the opponent out completely… esp without having to commit to a jump (which is virtually my only option right now). Giving him i frames on ST effectively shuts the door on this option simply because with both a normal AA and ST buffed, the opponent has to deal with a heavy footsies oriented character that not only can keep you out but can also get you off of him.
#1 it would instantly make him top-ish tier and then you get to see the hoard of dumb fucks come and play Vega. Anyone really wanna see a Vega bandwagon?
#2 like it or not, SF5 is not too far into the future. If Vega makes it, chances are this is going to be the template used. I would prefer Vega distance himself from the similarities of Guile, and having strong, functional normals as opposed to strong, functional specials. This increases his chance of making it into the next game, and hopefully prevents another repeat of what we’ve been dealing with for the past (me… 4) 5 years. Last thing I wanna hear when SF5 comes rolling around is “Vega was way too good at the end of SF4” and everyone complaining about him.
It happens a lot because the input window is pretty lenient. Even if i release MP after i press up+forward it still can come out. It happens with cLP too from time to time but far less than with the MP version.
I think U2 is fine. Besides, I’d rather have U1 invincible on the way to the wall as an AA than U2.
Also, Haz… Your English is good enough to where I didn’t know it wasn’t native to you. You’re fine.
Also… I dunno if you guys noticed, cMK is +5 on hit. With a 5 frame startup you basically have a comboable cMP, which also gives you almost enough time to charge and execute ST on the 2nd cMK giving you a KD and a free wakeup… with a comboable PoM. Unlike cMP… cMK HAS to be blocked low. It also gives you a 1 frame link from sHP to get 10-20 more damage over cMP.
There’s a method to the madness.
And increasing hitbox size to extend to the tip of the claw solves the cMK, cLP problem Haz, although I wasnt aware of anyone that combo didnt work on.
I don’t think Vega has anything abusable right now. Specially not SHC.
Seriously, any successfully blocked SHC can mean an ultra punish. Why would’ve want to worsen the recovery on a move which is already that much punishable ?
The thing is SHC and even EX-SHC are too risky to be suitable for tournaments because of this (there are even some not too old videos of a SRK player eating cammy’s U1 and losing after attempting SHC as finishing move) . That’s why top players almost never use them against skilled opponents. Big risk, little reward, that’s all there is to it.
I wonder if you’re not confusing with SFxT one, although it seems quite punishable too. I’ll understand you may want to make sure nerfs would only apply to moves of few importance… but it is very possible v2012’s Vega would not get any nerf. He didn’t when going from AE to 2012, for instance.
About EX-ST I-frames, even partial I-frames, I think we won’t get it indeed. That’s again character design. But I would happily trade that with an armored EX-RCF for example, while removing projectile invincibility (which EX-ST already does). That would still force us to guess, so it’s weaker than I-frames, and still suck as an aa, but would still help fixing Vega’s grounded defensive game in some way.
I think this has already been suggested, and it seems reasonable enough to me. =)
Imo if we are about to ask for a buff we should ask it without compromising methods so it is taken into serious consideration and not as a ‘I don’t mind if not’ wish. If you feel vega doesn’t need or is impossible to get full startup invincibility on ex.st don’t mention it at all in capcom unity. Instead try to be militant for vega’s other serious issues like CH being reverted to super status and buffed anti air hitboxes.
SHC is not safe but it’s hard to punish. No i’m not talking about SFxT SHC (which was already nerfed). SHC is pointless as it is. They need to find a different way to make that move useful.
Armored EX RCF doesnt sound like a bad idea at all. I never thought of that. I like it.
For those of you that really want i frames on ST (any version) explain why you would rather have an AA that requires a charge as opposed to an AA that is a normal.
I’d rather have i-frames on ST because I think it would make Vega better than a hitbox buff to cr.hp would. The lack of a reversal is a bigger issue than the lack of a reliable anti-air imo.
I personally would benefit more from it, at least. And in the end, that’s what I care mostly about, eh.
The thing is that they wanted SFIV Vega to be without invincible reversal, and without anti-air. So we can always try to ask for it, but maybe alternate solutions have better chances to be taken into consideration.
About CH, personally I’m fine with v2012’s version. It’s not my core of offense, and I’ve seen how annoying it can be to defend against when it is landed meaty (and players such as Gross_indecency excell at getting it meaty ^_^). IMO, in vanilla/super it was a bit too powerful relatively to Claw’s others normals, making them pointless to use. Other characters must have complained about it, and it was nerfed too heavily in AE. But 2012’s CH is OK for me.
May Capcom hear you ! =)
'cause we want a reversal, a get off-me move when we are being shamelessly disrespected by a grounded opponent.
Of 'course Vega needs AA, but with his ground zoning being already among the bests of the game, he could be OP if he was too comfortable in anti-air zoning. =)
+1
The thing is that they wanted SFIV Vega to be without invincible reversal, and without anti-air. So we can always try to ask for it, but maybe alternate solutions have better chances to be taken into consideration.
About CH, personally I’m fine with v2012’s version. It’s not my core of offense, and I’ve seen how annoying it can be to defend against when it is landed meaty (and players such as Gross_indecency excell at getting it meaty ^_^). IMO, in vanilla/super it was a bit too powerful relatively to Claw’s others normals, making them pointless to use. Other characters must have complained about it, and it was nerfed too heavily in AE. But 2012’s CH is OK for me.
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I get your points but the thing is that suggestions like better SHC or armored ex.rcf are tertiary needs and the character is still gonna be hovering at best around top8 with these in majors (except if they majorly nerf most of the upper tiers which is not gonna happen).
Ch being safe 95% of the time is ok but is still a momentum killer when used outside of a punish. Vega would greatly benefit with the best complementary tool to his throwing game being improved. Think how horrible and almost lackluster in comeback factor vega in x-tekken is.
Why are people asking for the non issue fixes still. Its like 2009 and 2011 never happened at all. Like some figment of every bodies imagination.
It’s lackluster but Vega at least has his partner to help him out with that. In SFxT… if the opponent presses a button, they are fucked and fucked hard. If they don’t yeah Vega has probs with down back but if you pick someone like Gief, they’ll get off down back in a hurry.
i dunno if you’ve noticed but i’m trying to give Vega new stuff to work with rather than just going back to throw/no throw mixups.
So lemme get this right. You would rather have a reversal, that requires charge, can be safe jumped, cannot be FADC’d, has a TON of recovery, and is weak vs cross ups thus not helping ANY of your wakeup game and not adding ANYTHING to your ground game…
than having a normal that requires no charge, gives you a reset at almost perfect range, helps you keep opponents out so that you don’t have to deal with reversal situations to begin with, and still does over 100 damage (likely 138 considering you’re going to have a high chance of getting a counter hit)? Am I missing something?
what are you talking about non-issues? Like i said, I’m tired of his claw going through people, I got that idea from you lol!
Yes. I would rather have a move that forces my opponent to atleast respect something when applying pressure, than a move that does absolutely nothing for me in said situation.
Vega’s ground game is top notch, and he’s solid air-to-air. Getting in on Vega is already hard for alot of the cast. Staying in, however, is not nearly as hard, given how safe and advantageous it is to apply pressure. Just go ham on Vega, the risk is pretty much as small as it gets in SF4, and up close is probably your preferred spot against him. If I could have a tool that beats more than one of my opponents options in that situation, you bet I’d take it.
not you
fools asking for a wider st.hk
an all purpose AA
mask and claw functions (as if that’s really necessary)
invulnerability frames on Scarlett Terror
or the worse one, a non FADC reversal in which if successful, the rewards aren’t that favorable
especially when that specific issue of the claw going thorugh thin air exists, etc.
Dude, Dude, Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudddddddddddddddddddddddeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I don’t know if you noticed, but this is the Vega forums after all. bwhahahahahahah.
Seriously though, I wouldn’t mind your approach, if it was guaranteed that this character got some of his balls back after the crap that was AE and AE 2012
So what’s wrong with blocking? Who gives a crap if the opponent respects you or not. The only thing i frames is going to help on is on frame traps… which everyone and their dog knows to bait out. At some point the opponent will either stop or push themselves out of range, and you wanna take a risk that huge in that situation?
and 2 points here:
- if it’s that hard for opponents to get in on Vega, then you really shouldnt be having problems dealing with pressure that’s rarely if ever there. I can go pull any random video of vega losing and guarantee you the #1 way they get in is by jumping.
- what exactly is i frames going to help you with? Throws? Nope ST beats that now anyway. Blockstrings? Nope, you cant attack in blockstun. Dive kicks? Chances are i frames will have worn off if they are doing it as part of a pressure situation (cause I seriously doubt it’ll have i frames on all startup and active frames), by the time it “hits” and you’ll get a trade anyway. But ok, let’s let that one slide and say it helps with non-wakeup dive kicks. What else? Overheads? If you cant react fast enough to block it, then you cant react fast enough to ST it anyway. Cross-ups? Nope, it’ll completely whiff those. So what’s left? Neutral jumps, frame traps and general fuck ups. Ok i’ll give in on neutral jumps. It’d be pretty effective there. Frame traps will get beat unless you’re baited, which isnt something you can react to exactly. But sure I’ll give you those. General fuck ups will probably be beaten by current EX ST anyway, so not really any help there. So we have unsafe dive kicks, neutral jumps and frame traps.
cHP covers unsafe dive kicks as well, and depending on distance of neutral jump would beat those too. Not as close as i frames would but still a good number, So the only real advantage you get is on frame traps, which blocking beats currently anyway. So with i frames on ST you get to take the risk of being a sitting duck for 36 frames (if it’s EX add the cost of a bar to that) in a window of 3 frames (because at 4 frames you already have other options) and in return you gain 160 damage (170 on EX) and a techable KD… assuming you had enough charge to begin with. As opposed to cHP where you have roughly the entire duration of the opponent’s jump, at the risk of being a sitting duck for 34 frames, not burning any meter at all, gain the ability to not be required to commit to your own jump, place the opponent just outside sMK distance (which I’m sure Meteo will probably come up with more crossover EX FBA set ups), 100-138 damage, helping to keep the opponent on the ground playing footsies… that he so excels at.
but to each their own
The “problem” with blocking is that strong hit confirming normals are both fast and positive on block. Forcing your opponent to block puts you in a highly advantageous position, because the next move is yours to make. This is true for all characters, but defending characters with more options are, of course, stronger when pressured, because the more options your opponent has to guess between, the higher your chances of succeeding. You say that the opponent will at some point stop pressuring Vega. Why would they? Seriously?
Before I reply to anything else, I want you to take http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/130/crhp1.png and draw the new hit/hurt-boxes we’re theorizing about (yes, I’m serious). Because the buffed cr.hp I’m imagining is definitely inferior what you have in mind.
