I’m really just done trying to reply to you, because I’m legit unsure if you just don’t understand my humour and manner of thinking or if you’re trolling me.
I don’t think nerfing characters is the right way about doing it. The game is really tame as it is, barring the characters that excel at mix up games once they start.
How is that OP? How? Explain please how that is OP, when there are other characters that exist with stronger, better, and less linear modes of attacks.
Yeah, I agree, but this is CAPCOM we’re talking about. We’re gonna see nerfs up the ass, and we all know it. (If there is an update). Makes me kinda sad, because I use Ibuki now >.>
Well, our idea is to do things a little different this time - don’t nerf the top, but buff everyone else, that’s why we are making a buff list for everybody.
Regarding capcom only listening to japanese - I don’t know about this, but I think is worth trying, anyway.
Oh okay. If that’s the case, then I like the idea of just reverting all of Vega’s Super-to-AE nerfs while keeping what buffs he has already, since that would be adding a lot of good stuff back to him already.
If I had to do something new with him then…
I’ve always wondered what it would be like if EX RCF had armor instead of projectile invincibility. He’d be able to still go over normal projectiles (and most EX’s too if it has more than 1 point of armor, I could see it having 2 points of armor with how slow it is on startup), and it would also help him deal with meaties and pressure from certain moves a bit better too, and give him interesting things like kara-canceling to ultra. Not to mention, since he’s a character that lacks a bit in the dangerous frame traps department, giving him an armor move would give him an extra, damaging, option to deal with people who like to press button, at the cost of a meter.
That’s my idea for Vega, but really, I just like the idea of giving back his lost Super tools.
I pondered the idea the other day of potential of Scarlet Terror if you didn’t have to force stand the opponent. IE; It could hit on crouchers.
I wondered how nice U2 would be if it had Bison’s ultra motion too, instead of having to sit on DB for it.
Of course with the startup, I figure they did it to stop people cancelling out of cl.HP into it.
I’m just playing theory, these aren’t necessarily things that I want, but things that I’m curious about if he had.
If I take a look at forward moving frame-traps from others characters, it appears that indeed, Cody’s fMP can have a maximum of +3/+8, and Ibuki’s overhead +4/+6. Dunno about Dictator’s LK Scissors and Sakura’s LK tatsu 'cause motion maybe more complex.
So it’s not OP relatively to others. The thing I was saying, is that it would make CH claw’s normal move with best frame advantage, so it might be imbalanced if he is supposed to excell with fast long range attacks, and has in fact less benefit to use them. I’d would rather buff again sLK or cMK, or more interestingly cLP, than give +3 to CH. Personal opinion. =)
Yeah, with a +3 CH, it’s filling a role for the character that he is not meant to be fulfilling by design. He is definitely not supposed to be a character who can the enemy at close range (though he is still pretty good at it if you’re smart!).
I don’t think they will ever buff cr.lp. It has very long reach for a light attack and would be too strong to be a 2 frame hit confirm
into ex.fba combo.
However I definitely agree with cr.lk being 3f startup so it combos into itself. As a crouch tech it is possibly the worst in the game at its current state.
I am retired for a couple reasons…
- Being good at the game lost its allure
- The game stopped being inspirational
- It’s impossible for me to keep getting better and expect to win at the rate I am, against intn’l comp.
- There are other, better, more engaging things to do than Street fighter these days.
So i cut my losses and went back to what i did before SF, music. Which is becoming huge to me at the perfect time since i am almost done school. Before it was “finish school, play street fighter” now it’s “finish school, play music”. Right now I have no plans for Evo and for future competitions and am even considering not entering canada cup 2k13, if it even happens.
Really there are a ton of good reasons to quit playing SF competitively, especially for me and my circumstances. But i just don’t think about it anymore and am moving on. It was a fun ride, 3 years I will most definitely not ever forget.
cr.LP being +5 is OP. Really guys, stop it. Being +2/+4 on the hand would be decent, as being +1 with a 4f jab is not good at all.
Also, getting rid of cl.LK would make me really happy. Make it like stHK which has the same proprieties as far and close goes (hitbox put aside).
Have you actually payed attention to the game in the past 3 years?
Good characters have tools to go on mix up offense once they win the footsie battle. They have unblockables, or strong frame traps that lead to good meter building, good damage, and easy access to Ultra.
You don’t win tournaments with footsies alone. Its why Vega hasn’t won anything or come close since SSF4, even though some of his bad match ups have been made easier for him. It doesn’t matter if you have a 5-5 match up. If your offense game is mediocre from beginning to end, you aren’t going to win that match up 50% of the time because you don’t have the tools to seal the deal and are forced to work even harder since your modes of attack are linear, and if they do succed, don’t net rewards like Cosmic Heel did in SSF4.
You want a competitive Vega that isn’t OP or homogenized with the others? Don’t buff cr.lp, don’t make it chain, don’t give him a 3 frame cr.lk, don’t give him AA ST. Just give him back +3 Cosmic Heel. You now have something that forces the opponent to block and give you time to make use of frame traps/kara/cr.mk once you have successfully won the footsie battle .
Experience dictates that low tier character can win tournaments because they have something that rewards heavily once they have earned the offense. Vega doesn’t have that.
So what are the nerfs that Vega received since Super ? from what I know:
- Ultra 2 - 1 more start up (8)
- Ex FBA - 20 dmg less
- cr MP - 10 dmg less
- CH: here I’m not sure I understand. Right now the move is -3 on block, while in Super was -1. This is what you would like, to be returned to -1 on block ?
What about like someone else said, a compromise, -2 on block ?
And what do you mean by +3 ? +3 on hit ? but isn’t CH a luncher, so what would be the purpose ?
Was that question really worth to ask to an active SRK member, Pedoviejo ?
If the one answering it hot tempered, he will just get salty. If reacts in a mature way, he’ll just think you may be a bit full of yourself. In both way, not suitable for someone really wanting to discuss instead of just imposing his point of view.
IMO, Claw has more of a vortex than half the cast. Each izuna or CH-ST knockdown leads you to precise frame advantage, allowing you to safe jump, or to corpse-hop (with frame-trapping added to high block/low block mix-up). You can even add wake-up untechable grab in the corner, and a small possibility of cross-up mix-up with FBA.
So he has a vortex, and if you use lights attacks he has a lot block/tech mix-up opportunities. Not to mention overheads. It’s not Ibuki’s or Akuma’s, but we definitely have valuable offensive mix-up.
What he lacks, is what makes able other characters to stop other’s vortex : a reversal. That is the main reason why Claw did not won majors, we have to keep guessing, while others can say stop.
You want even more mix-up ? Buff the lights, that simple. Even just an as simple tweak than fixing cLK to connect on standing after cLP cLP would help our pressure game. Cosmic heel isn’t a good core for offensive tactics to me. No wonders you consider our attack as linear if you rely on it.
I agree with that, it would be a good idea.
I would still prefer cLP to be a 3 framer, with unchanged stun (with would make it comboable from cLK, a better frame trap, and make FADC combos easier)… but I would take any buff concerning our crouching lights. ^^
Frame advantage on block is given when an attack connects from it’s first active frame. The attack causes a given amount of stun, and frame advantage is calculated by analysing the difference between it and recovery.
However, some attacks have several active frames. They will always cause the same amount of stun regardless on the frame they do hit. But, if they do it later, then you can save the previous active frames from total recovery, and thus improve your advantage.
If CH is -3 on block at point blank range, it means it hits at it’s first active frame.
If you hit at the 5th active frame, on block you hit 4 frames later, meaning you’re at -3+4 = +1 frame advantage on block.
That is called a meaty. =)
On hit you would score a knockdown, so it’s another problem.
The EX-FBA knee hit damage got reduced from 50 to 30. The actual Claw Strike ( or Izuna) remained the same.
As for crMp minus 20 in damage I think.
No we are always talking about frames on block. When you do a CH you move forward, so it is important from where you do your attack, allowing you to control the frame disadvantage on block.
The CH has more than one active frames, it has five. If you are doing a CH on point blank, you would hit your opponent on the first active frame, leaving you with four more active frames plus your recovery frames where you opponents block stun frames start right away. So in the end he recovers 3 frames faster than you (leaving you at 3 frames disadvantage or “-3”) in AE2012, where in Vanilla/Super Claw had less recovery frames (leaving you at -1).
If you do your CH at max range, it means that you would hit your op on the last active frame , so the recovery frames starting right away where the block stun frames for you opponent would be the same, leaving you at +1 In AE2012 ant even at +4 in Vanilla/Super due to less recovery frames.
edit: DAMN trias I hope at least you are doing this from work! Wasting MY work times in redundant replies 
Nope. My work is kinda intermittent : quite intense when I’m at it, but with large periods of time when I’m not. I’m in the large freetime period right now. (^_^)
I’m sure of it. It’s good to know.
Thanks for what you did for the Claw players community. You were truly carrying inspiration for us (specially at Canada cup 2011 and Absolution) , though you’re turning to other paths right now. Thank you for that. =)
I’m glad to have been a help to everyone and like I said 3 years of as much SF I played was a very fun time. I’ll always remember my time with the game very fondly. But for now, it’s time to move on to different things.
I’m just happy that, for a brief period there, I was always in the discussion of “best Vega”. Knowing I did that with what resources I had available to me - with my first SF game ever - is an accomplishment I’m very proud of.
yeah it is.
Are you seriously going to sit there and claim that Vega’s lack of reversal is what keeps him from being a tournament winner?
Come on dude, come on.
lol what??
Vortex? That isn’t a vortex. Those are simple mix up games. Stop using words that don’t apply.
no he doesn’t. Look up what a real vortex is, all he has is simple mix ups. This isn’t SF2 where 50/50 games can lead brutal to brutal health loss.
come on dude, you aren’t even trying. Remember SF4 Akuma? That’s a vortex, a unstoppable force that doesn’t give two shits about your reversal. Or Viper/Abel/Seth, more characters that have the tools to minimize risk to a minimum while not caring. A reversal isn’t going to do anything agaisnt those characters, all it does is provide such a minimal chance of escaping. The character as a whole would be better off with more offensive options that lead to the same situation with high damage output if successful and doesn’t need EX meter.
Tame characters don’t ever win anything.
bwahahahaha
come on dude, the damage Cosmic heel does, the ability to use cr.mk even more effectively, the better throw game it provides, the better frame advantage compared to cr.lk -cr.lp, the frame traps.
bwhahahaha
good luck on your Barlog/Bison clone.
Learn to counter hit set up
Cosmic Heel +3 was a real nice way to set up Counter Hit cr.lk. No need to buff lights and turn Vega into a Barlog/Bison clone.