I’ve thinking and I think i found the answer, why would be people be mad of their character becoming top tier… I guess the same people Who keep saying their character is fine the way he is at mid-tier and keep acting like the character is too holy to actually at least say some good buffs that would make that character become top tier, but people just wants certain buffs (When I say ceartain buffs those are just just fixes that really shoouldn’t be called a buff) or no buffs at all to make their character stay at mid tier at best…
I kinda agree of what Seth said about what most Vega players said of “didn’t want many changes”… and it’s happening now again, Look at the 3rd post of this thread 3 people already agreed for no buffs for Vega, with you right now you just want Vega back to how he was and is not asking for buffs but for nerfs and fixes.
I still don’t know why you think it’s crazy how Capcom did these things to Vega with the “derp” you said when you’re one of the people who actually asked for it even if it was read or not lol.
And the majority of you actually wanted no buffs whatsoever claiming EX ST being invulnerble make him a down back character when in fact it wouldn’t. Many of you also agreed with the Cosmic Heel super nerf citing “derp” fully knowing that Abel, Akuma, Viper, Fei existed. So yes, Capcom was right in knowing players didn’t want buffs
That’s what im saying Pedoviejo, people acting like they weren’t one of the people that made Seth say such a thing. The only reason I want a high tier buffed Vega so I can watch the Vega players that actually go to major tourneys with a high chance of actually winning it. Is that so bad to asked?
Playing a high Tier Vega online would kinda be fun too
Actually this whole tier thing is kinda irrelevant : nobody agrees on that. I’ve even seen Cammy players claiming she was low tier, Ryu players complaining about links, and people asking to nerf Dan. X_X
Though you are right about asking one chance to get to the top, which we haven’t demonstrated yet.Seriously, when chars without non EX viable reversal are without meter, they are so exposed to brutal rapes that I feel almost sorry for them. Then I remember, that we are in that sorry state even with EX. And I just laugh at this ridiculous fact, which I highly suspect not to be fixed in an hypothetic v2013.
Not for all characters if you take Boxer and Dudley… and… well… yeah, you’re right. (^_^)
Maybe its too early for me to be reading, but I seriously don’t get what you were trying to say. I’m not asking for Vega to be nerfed, thanks.
He could do with buffs, but if you had read my post properly (which I forget, people on this forum don’t), you would notice I saidthat there’s no point in asking for anything because whatever we ask for, Capcom do the complete opposite because THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT OUR OPINION.
If you want to make a difference, go to Japan, go to the Loketests and pitch your ideas in.
Making a wishlist only escalates into flame wars because X person wants this and Y person thinks that it’s unnecessary.
And it’s all for nothing because Capcom aren’t going to read these suggestions anyway.
and Trias, that’s pretty much what I was talking about. I try not to pay attention to Capcom’s stupidity other than the fact that they kicked Vega in the balls because they felt he was evidently too strong in Super.
they didn’t even give the damn game time to develop before flipping everything around again.
I was talking to my other half about this yesterday and I honestly think had they given Super time to develop, Vega would have been a pretty strong character.
All that really held him from being the top of the tiers was the lack of reversal and solid AA.
Which I wish people would get through their heads when I say this but CAPCOM WON’T GIVE HIM THIS.
This isn’t me going “I don’t want buffs” because I fricken do.
Who doesn’t want to see their character at the top? But look at the reality here that Capcom seem adamant on not letting him become even as strong as he was in Super, so what makes you think they’re goingto give him an invul reversal and a decent AA anytime soon.
Vega would still be sucky as a down back character with EX ST having invul because it requires meter so it really would only be a “Get away from me” sort of thing, but Capcom still won’t do it.
So I urge you before you reply to me this time to read the TLDR footnote of:
I DO WANT BUFFS BUT I’M LOOKING AT THIS REALISTICALLY. I’M SORRY FOR THAT BUT DEAL WITH IT.
I think you are too pesimistic.
v.2012 brought some nice changes for Vega, too:
+1 blockstun for CH - I’m sure you enjoyed this buff - it was a buff in the right direction, exactly what Vega players asked, only not at the extent they wanted. But good, nonetheless.
+20 dmg for cr HK - another buff I’m sure Vega players liked.
expanded hitbox for U1 was also nice.
So it’s not true that Capcom never listen and ignores us. Actually, I think there are a couple of problems that stands between our input and capcom:
negativism - “capcom never listen, we don’t need buffs, character X is fine, etc”. I’m sorry, but if I would be a capcom employee who is checking these forums for input, then I would say that Vega doesn’t need much, since many players are saying Vega doesn’t need anything. If the v.2012 Vega wish list thread was the same as this one, I’m not surprised Vega didn’t get much. tl dr: if you don’t ask, you don’t get.
unreasonable requests: there are other people who just simply list everything and the moon and the sky. Not only huge lists of buffs, but buffs that are simply stupid.
lack of organization: everybody has their own list of buffs, and they rarely have things in common. It’s a nightmare to understand what those players wants.
everybody is doing this alone: so Vega players may request nothing, cause Vega is fine, while Honda players request 10 buffs and won’t get much, because I doubt capcom will give honda 10 buffs and Vega nothing. Most probable nobody will get anything.
I think these are the main reasons why we don’t get much.
My idea is everybody make sugestions of buffs. Decides what are the most important/ most wanted - I don’t know, U2 back to Super, inv. frames for ST, etc.
Make a list and discuss them, so it doesn’t include op stuff - is invincibility frames for Ex ST too much ? I don’t know, discuss it and decide. It would also be nice to write some explanations why these buffs are needed/ wanted. Everybody is doing the same for their own characters, then put these lists together ad send them to capcom (email, Ono tweet/ capcom unity, ask a mod/ admin to put it on the front page of srk, etc). If then we get nothing, then indeed capcom is not listening. But…BUT. You never know. Plus, I think this is really fun.
Protip: the developers in Japan balance off the opinion of Japanese gamers.
Ever wondered why in Capcom games, you don’t push buttons to set the controls rather than choosing them off a menu (like you can in HD remix?), it’s because people in Japan prefer, for reasons I’ll never understand, to choose from a menu rather than press buttons. When I spoke to S-Kill about this a couple of years ago, he said to me that Japan was pretty much the only country that felt this way.
Guess what system Capcom puts in their games?
Anyway, if it’s a wishlist, 4 frames of invul on EX ST, make c. jab c.jab a two frame link.
Those two changes would make my life so much easier <3
When I look back at your 1st post on this thread you didn’t ask for any buffs, only fixes then you asked for a nerf/downgrade on BHC. Yea it’s very early for you to be reading to not understand what you’re saying lol.
I actually believe they were reading some of the stuff on this forum from what Seth said and what I was reading from your post and others that are keep saying Vega is fine. If people would stop saying that maybe he would have never said that. But really don’t act like you’re not one of the main people who argued with people from buffs but to say he’s ok like he is right now.
You say they kicked Vega in the balls, but right now it looks like Vega is just fine for you right now except you want the SHC claw thing fixed and BHC nerfed and “Job done” what sense does that make?
Having a i-frame reversal and a reliable AA is > Not having a i-frame reversal and a reliable AA Having the first option doesn’t force you to change how you play with him, but it’s still a added bonus.
It’s sure better than saying Vega is fine and hardly needs anything else that would make a person (Seth) say a Fact statement of what was actually going on in the Vega forums back in the day.
“Looking at this realistically” Is the kind of thing again what made Seth say what he said, my whole reason for me replying to you is trying to figure out how the things Seth said was “derp” when you’re pretty much one of the people he was talking about lol.
Smh. Just. Smh.
Can’t you read what it says under my username?
And we only develop the “Capcom don’t listen” attitude because…well, they don’t. You have to have a catalyst that makes people think that and they have.
AE2012 brought more fixes than it did buffs. Fixes for things that should never have happened;
CH being nerfed
EX SHC should always have hit everyone regardless of crouching, it also should have dealt the full damage.
And the slide +20 was to put back the 20 they took off us previously for no reason what so ever.
The only change that I can truly say that I went “Oh good.” about was being able to HIT someone with a non-EX SHC and NOT be ultra’d for landing something because it now KDs.
And to re-iterate, they don’t go on SRK to look for changes. They ask Japanese players. So my point still stands that this is pointless.
Though on the opinion of crLP, crLP being two frame. It doesn’t need it and I’m GLAD they changed it to 1F in SFxT.
EDIT: @ JokerJ
Actually I said REVERT ALL NERFS GIVEN BETWEEN SUPER AND KEEP THE BUFFS.
You know why I said remove launcher?
BECAUSE YOU NEVER GOT HIT OUT OF IT ON STARTUP BEFORE IT HAD A LAUNCHER.
IMO The launcher was a blessing and a curse, so that is why I don’t like the launcher.
Eitherway, I’m done, because I’m evidently not allowed an opinion.
Everyone needs to calm down. Its a discussion not an argument. Okay, there are some truths in things people say but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Let’s not turn this into flame wars.
Stay beautiful.
Again you asked for no buffs just fixes. Another reason what Seth said was partly Fact. I still call that a nerf because they can actually keep the launcher while still being able to go the wall not being hit out of it on start up. You are allowed an opinion, just don’t act dumbfounded on what Seth said about Vega players like that wasn’t happening most of the time on the forum.
I feel like the launcher for Ultra 1 is one of the things that lets Vega keep up with the current metagame of SF4, since upon any a2a antiair, or cosmic heel (especially in the corner), it’s basically a guaranteed 30-40%. It’s a crossup that’s faster than any Magneto tri-jump setup, basically. I love it, but maybe that’s just me?
To be honest, if the stronger characters get nerfed, then Vega won’t actually NEED buffs, since he’s already a pretty strong character. Nerfing Adon, Cammy, Sak and the other really strong heads will automatically make him tournament viable. I’m pretty sure him having no get-off-me’s is a weakness they’re giving him on purpose for the type of character they’re making him to be.
And she said revert the nerfs. That’s the same as giving him buffs. I don’t understand what you’re saying, jok3r… lol
Upon achievement of full super bar, a random chain-linked fence is brought on screen by Spaniards.
-All Flying Barcelona Attack & Izuna Drop (special, ex, super) can be done with SF2 fence climb effect by holding its associated :atk: button.
-As long as the super bar is full the fence remains standing.
Claw throw & Mask throw become actual projectiles similar to Cody’s knife throw.
-Claw throw uses :atk: to control were the claw lands on hit, and the claw lands behind foe on block.
-Mask throw cost 25% of super bar, deals half the dmg of Claw throw but double the stun and can be delayed for more dmg with knock down effect.
What I was saying Rizhall is that reverting a nerf back to what it was before isn’t a buff it’s just simply going back to the way it was basically “fixing” it back.
Stronger characters getting nerfed doesn’t make it 100% sure that Vega won’t need buffs, he will still be acceptable to buffs. Other characters getting nerfed doesn’t take that away.
I think there is some truth in that. For example, I i do compare cosmic heel to Ibuki’s overhead, she is +3 on block and can combo without too much trouble on hit. The frame advantage we had did not seem abusive, specially if we consider that CH is a slow move, and that Claw should have max frame advantage from midrange. =)
Absolutely. Though good aa would be against his character design, lack of reversal is the main reasons which holds him back. =)
I’m afraid you’re right. =)
I never read what you write after TL;DR. Too much loss compared to original message. (^_^)
It’s not a buff, it’s cancelling a nerf which no one understood. He had always been 110 in previous versions than AE. =)
You are right. We can’t ask something that would go against character design of Claw. For instance, we can’t ask for good aa.
However, I still don’t understand why his defense should be weak against grounded attacks, but asking for a reversal… well… no one sees it happening.
However :
— Buffing cLP is a good idea. The thing is they don’t want Claw to be at ease at close range.
=> So, why not ask to be +5 on hit (easier hitconfirming), while staying +1 on block (still weak to throws or 3 frames jabs).
=> Another idea would be it to be a 3 framer while not changing stun (and that would allow to combo into it from a cLK), and it would still be weaker than other’s characters jabs (which are chainable for most of them, and +2 to +4 on block compared to the +1 we have). I kinda like the idea of a 3 frames jab, 'cause if would help for defense purpose and FADC strings as well.
— Fixing cLK is not that much to ask. After all, cLP cLP cLK strings are what most characters use to pressure opponents (it’s one of Ryu strings for instance), it’s not unreasonable to ask for a cLP cLP cLK LP-RCF working on standing hitboxes. Asking for it to be +4 on hit and +0 on block would make it useful too, but i don’t think they would do it.
— Making flips reversable : well, it’s not much either. Why aren’t they reversable in the first place ?
— Super startup for U2 : to make him comboable against grounded. So many characters have comboable ultra. Even blanka has.
— CH blockstun between 2012 and super : asking for what it was in vanilla (+3 at best) is OP for me, but a +2 on block would make it a very reasonable move given the fact that it’s very rarely done perfectly meaty.
Honestly, I would prefer Claw to be a little more balanced, and having to fight top tiers all the time, than fighting nerfed top tiers with always so little options to counter them.
Though the comparison does hurt feelings indeed. =(
so…