Mmmh, counterhit cLP into cMK would be awesome for sure. =D
What I’m wondering about, is if they did other minor buffs… such as tweaking LP-RCF first hit, or cLK hitbox… possibly other hitboxes ? Can we dream a little bit more ? ^^
I don’t think crLP +2 on block will be happening, that would be some Sakura sLP pressure right there - together with the throw range and the walk speed i think a bit too much…
As for +2 on hit I confess at first I was one of those elitists. “you should work or your links” and so on. And the feeling of nailing crLP crLP crMP xx EX FBA is still great.
But now, the prospect of having every crLP that hit transfered in an untechable knockdown is prettyfucking great.
faster U1 gonna stop vega from being knocked out of it without it even starting by a single normal and will it stop other characters stuffing it out of the air even tho it looks like it’s supposed to be some AA ultra when going forward? if not then what’s the point?
Also it would be nice for U2 to be a better AA and just saying when i watch claw players on stream I rarely see 2 cr .lp’s into cr.mp (._.).
also wouldn’t easier cr lp give us more charge time while hitting your opponent as soon as you crouch to go for a rcf, ST, or ex fba in a quicker spur of the moment when playing footsies?
I withdraw…
cr.lp buff is very nice.
Don’t give me the bs about cr.lp cr.lp being easy, it’s not. I see high-level Vegas miss it and you’re just asking for a juicy reversal Ultra if you’re not careful.
I think Vega is the only character without an easy confirmable jab link? Everyone else is rapid cancel or 2-frame link minimum.
Pretty dumb, makes us the only character who can’t reliably convert some damage off jabs without being scared of random Ultras.
More I see high-level Vega play, more I think he needs an invincible reversal. Watching that Ken in Evo was gross. Just random jump-ins and jab all day and Vega can do absoutely NOTHING. Off a jump-in, Ken has many chances to throw for free. Vega can only crouch-tech/backdash at best, which resets the situation for another jump-in. It’s too common to see a Vega get bodied after getting knocked down once.
And so will I, then. After all there are quite others 1 frames links one has to master… that arguing about just one was a bit off from my part. =)
If you see the throw coming, you can ST ou jump back/neutral jump as well. We are not defenseless, the thing is most of our defense options do require space to apply. Most of us would wish to have I-frames on ST, but now we know we won’t. Why complain, then ? =)
For those asking for a reversal,
If you see high level KOF, most of those AA are reactionary AA.
Learn your god damn AA, its not hard. And SF4 is so much god damn slower than that game and peeps over there know how to AA. There’s only one thing you have to know as a Vega now player now in days and that’s spacing. this isn’t SSF4 where we could apply a good offense on a low throw mix up game and win off that.
The changes once again are cute, but fail to address any of the real issues that Vega has, either offensivly or defensivly. Where Gen is like Vega where he lacks any real defensive moves once peeps are in and has amazing buttons on the neutral game, he at least has the tools to apply a mix up game that is legit and super consistent. Vega does not have anything other than a risky and expensive 50/50 wake up mix up. We lack the tools to win once we command the space through superior footsies.
Either make Vega a super poke hungry character with the ability to do more damage per poke than other characters, or give back the offensive game he had.
EX ST will never win anybody any tournaments, its just a temporary fix to a much bigger problem that is SF4. Although I like playing cheap characters and it will be nice to have a band aid, I’d rather see that they fix the character rather than give a false fix.
So none of these ‘changes’ being discussed are official, correct? Just a Combofiend suggestion list?
And, I’m sorry, I’ve read through every post on this page and cannot side with those people that are advocating extra stun on jab.
Isn’t challenge supposed to be a part of it? Not just the challenge of your opponent’s skill, but the challange of mastering a character and finding ways around his/her (supposed) short-comings. Or maybe that’s just how me and the rest of the losers who grind and hone in training mode feel…
Besides, Vega needs improvments in other areas before we even consider touching his jab (which has the range of Ryu and Ken’s cr.mp with a faster start-up). It’s a great move as it is.
And no, cr.lp > cr.lp isn’t hard, it just isn’t easy. There is a difference. I don’t mean to make assumptions, but I feel the people who want that extra stun on jab spend most of their time online…or maybe not shrugs
However, without online lag, hitting that 1 frame jab link becomes sub-concious muscle memory with practice, I am living proof of that.
I came to the conclusion that most tournament worthy Vega players won’t find the cr.lp buff too noticeable to their overall gameplay, unless jab pressure wasn’t already part of their offensive style.
I recommend abusing cr.lp more than ever now, and hit confirming when it counts.
Although some may feel it is difficult, cr.lp counter hit into cr.mk, cr.mp xx EXFBA is going to be huge for us. That’s going to be the funnest part about the buff. That, and maybe “st.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp”
Combofiend is giving characters interesting buffs. It’ll make things funner. Kind of how he gave Dudley more damage on his target combos. A really random, and arguablely unnecessary buff, but interesting and fun nonetheless.
I’m assuming they are having big debates on whether or not to give Vega invincibility on his EXST. That’s a game changer for sure. Vega players would actually have to master the skill of “meter management”.
Lastly…lets training mode hella hard, because you know Capcom loves adjusting little things without announcing them.
Good times coming!!!
Claw and mask shouldn’t come off on block/focus. Considering we have so few defensive options why are we being punished for using the few that we have? There’s no benefit to losing the claw and losing the mask doesn’t make up for the loss of damage and range of the claw; especially if we take more damage and get dizzied faster. No other character gets debuffed through the progression of the match. Some may argue that it’s not hard to get those items back, but it’s silly that we have to accessorize while attempting to mount an offense. It has become second nature for me to go get at least the claw unless I feel I can do enough nerfed damage to KO. I just feel it’s a silly mechanic
Ultra 1 draining Revenge Meter before leaving the ground is also silly. Sure misreading a meaty and getting combo’d for it is fine and acceptable, but if you try to perform an Ultra 1 and get hit, you totally lose Revenge Meter before Vega’s even considered airborne. Does any other character lose the meter before the super pause? I just can’t think of one.
Those are just two things I find to be silly. If they never change them I don’t think we’ll be too much worse for wear. But it just seems like Vega has some unnecessary stipulations.
EVO’s hero has spoken. =D
There are already quite a number of unofficial changes which are known for others chars. Specially Chun-li, who will get buffed remarquably. I’m wondering when we will get to hear about Claw’s complete change list…
I was under the impresson that these weren’t all the official changes per character, only three of them for that rather improvised .ppt presentation. So I am certain the official changelog will have other things noted too. Maybe nothing severe as EX ST, but more than just stealth buffs.
Anyway let’s put asside the crLP for a moment and look at the other two mentioned changes.
U2 (“not as fast as in super” was imo just an error by combofiend) will be back in it’s Super form and gladly be accepted for aa-ing.
The U1 buff though, faster start up? I think that was never a problem, beeing knocked out of it was… What difference will a 7f start up make? After the wall it is already one frame.
I fear that buff will be as useful as the juggle option in v2012.
Or am I missing something here?
Edit: And I terribly miss a CH announcement, just give us back one more frame of stun!
Though I didn’t always feel this way, I find the idea of an overhauled hitbox on cr.fierce far more attractive than EX scarlet terror.
Vega’s ground and poking game WILL suffer if we get those EX ST I-Frames. That’s a fact. They will nerf it. They may even slow down his godlike backward walking speed to compensate for the fact that Vega, in theory, would then be able to build a few bars, then sit back spamming cr.mp and then EX ST any jump ins.
It would be a completely different character. No longer would he be the fastest character in the game with devine pokes; he’d be more akin to a Guile or Dee Jay with decent reach, minus the projectile.
Sounds awful.
I want to be able to fadc cr. Fierce the combo potential would be so much fun.
No thanks.
These changes will be in the location tests, also those are not the only changes for the characters, there will be more changes coming out.
As for these changes to vega, it does improve offence a little more than just easier time linking like suggested here (although easier jab links will also help). c.lp will link to c.hp and s.lk and counterhit c.lp will link to c.mk.
With a faster ultra2, counterhit c.mk combo to ultra2 will be more viable again.
It is already possible now, but only from very close counterhits, the extra frame(s) will make it hit from more range and make the close one easier to pull of.
its a good start, wonder about extra changes.
Hopefully they fix his hitboxes on his claw too too.
At first I was underwhelmed by the c.lp buff, but after giving it some thought, it’s actually pretty damn good. Yes, you can build charge doing c.lp x2 > c.mp, but Vega’s pressure game in the kara throw range is going to be so much nicer now that the link is practically guaranteed. Throwing out a jab when they’re worried about a karathrow is going be a nice blow-up every time, without committing to a cosmic heel.
I’d love to see c.hp buffed. They clearly don’t want to give him a nice wake-up reversal option, but a strong (and still somewhat situational) anti-air would be nice. That move can go fuck itself, I think it’s his single worst ground button IMO.
As for getting a legit invincible ex ST… that’d be nice, and I don’t think it’d be broken at all, considering that Vega needs meter to actually do anything. The reversal won’t be that braindead when you’re sacrificing damage to get out, and keep in mind that making it safe would cost a total of 3 bars. I’m sure that the start-up would still make it free to safe jumps, too.
cLP being +5 on hit (or 3 frame start up) is a good buff because it lets us train online somewhat closer to the same we would offline. That was the entire purpose of me asking for it.
U1 reduced start up is worthless unless it’s near instant from mid screen. It needs invincibility all the way to the wall. It’s completely punishable if thrown out carelessly anyway. U2 reduced start up is a decent buff but the way its worded makes me think it’ll be reverted before launch.
cHP needs more active frames, not necessarily a hitbox tweak. EX ST is fine as it is now if cHP gets buffed.
pedoviejo nailed it though. He has no defense and a makeshift offense that completely revolves around 1 move. Until that single aspect of his game (entirely revolving around the kara throw) gets fixed there is no point (for me at least) in playing this game. It should be a tool not a crutch.
U1 buff may be to improve comboability, I don’t really see the point otherwise as it is not invincible, just as you said.
Well, actually sLK/cMK or PoM pressure can assure a very decent offense, when used in conjunction with kara. Plus cHK/CH can have good whiff punish potential. It’s always better to get the izuna vortex going though, but we are not tool less.
The thing is CH isn’t a good offense launcher as it is currently, and I don’t see them buffing it to the point of making claw’s regular normals optional.
Thanks for the voice at Capcom unity btw, when it was time for us to be heard, to you and Haztlan as well I think. =)