So?..
DoublePost, look below.
Because, you know, while Joker and I don’t see eye to eye, I kind of don’t see an issue with this either.
If shotos and Cammy can do bullshit things like that from any range why can’t we?
They can out-poke us and they don’t get the claw and health handicaps. They do far higher damage, they can turn a fucking SUPER into a poke because lol let’s go 3s style in here and crMK xx Super. it’s not like you can FADC cleanly out of a roll into something high damaging.
So, honestly, given claws lack of other options, it wouldn’t be as bad as you say.
Also, we’re talking on HIT. On block, I still say keep the distance thing because hell if you block a crMK from a shoto, you can ultra/EX RCF through the fireball before it hits. A tighter point blank range block string seems better.
Putting an RCF on the end of a crMP max range on HIT isn’t an issue. Especially because of how long you have to charge for the bastard thing and how fast you would have to input it after the crMP hitting.
If you throw it into a block because you buffered for it, at that distance, your opponent has reaction time to hit you out of it. It’s fair tbh.
del
So what are your thoughts? Making the first hit of lpRCF going 1 dot fucking 0 further than it is now?
Why buff his mid range game? Why compare him to a class of character that is COMPLETELY different from Claw?
And what shoto can out-poke you? You outpoke them. You outpoke everyone in the cast but Dhalsim ffs.
They can’t outpoke you, and they never will. If they are hitting you further back is because you are whiffing your buttons in the air. If you are whiffing shit you should be punished. The Super that you ate is because you spaced your move badly.
The one thing that should be fixes is the fact that the direction that EX FBA travels is decided on the lasts frames of the startup animation (around 7~9), so when we buffer it into a crMK we have to press crMK xx EX FBA and hold on down foward long enough to - in case crMK hits - the EX FBA doesn’t go backwards. We can’t do the EX FBA and keep holding upwards, as we would jump if crMK whiffed. Which very likely spells death. We also can’t do the EX FBA and go down back immediately because it would make the EX FBA goes backwars. Its screwed up.
Because you know, you present an idea and won’t hear anything but agreement on it when we’re merely theory fighting here.
I don’t get it.
My point exactly.
Badum psh
Edit nvm I cant read.
My fail calls for an appropriate GIF
Girl, why is that? Why can’t you explain what you meant? As I said, I am not native of this language, and I really didn’t got it what you tried to mean.
You said that I presented an idea, which I didn’t. So I got lost in your post.
And I got it. You are badass, agressive and kind of narcisist.
Its not bad, actually, I love it.
But why doesn’t you just make yourself understandable to me instead of just try to being the smart ass?
Back then when you told that my frames were wrong, why didn’t you showed the right ones?
Also, have ever crossed your mind that you may be wrong?
stHK and EX ST share the same amount of recovery. EX ST has 9 more active frames, though. I don’t really know where I could be messing up here. Any help could be appreciated.
Stay beautiful.
I wonder if a speed increase would make vega’s footsies that more dangerous…
regardless, Capcom better do something big and grand becaue the last good and well thought out changes wehre from Vanilla to Super
Removing ex roll fireball invincibility would be really bad imo. Shotos and other fireball characters needs to be afraid of canceling into fireballs in footsies due to the risk of eating ex roll -> cr.mp -> ex fba, which is alot of damage and nice positioning for vega afterwards. Ex roll is a safer option than ex st,
Y-yes? Why would they take fb invuln from Ex rcf? Did someone suggest that?
Yeeaa… no fireball characters are never afraid of ex roll.
I don’t think you know they really good part Vegaman idead of putting armor on ex roll, it’s a two in one thing.
I get why Vegaman and others want armor instead of fireball invi. 1.Having armor on vega will still get to go through a fireball not an ex fireball but still. 2. We get to punish normals on wake up easier and with a new roll they want be able to beat us out of it once it makes a hit on them following with ex FBA or a or a meterless lp or mp roll combo with the help of the new lp roll buff suggestion people have been saying.
Even tho EX RCF is pretty slow again with wake up on some characters not all we will gain a better wake up from vortex characters i guess if they’re able to chase us down fast enough till we recover from the roll to block.
So pretty much having armor is better than fireball invi on ex roll, better wake-up punishes, giving higher chance to use ex roll combos from a defensive stand.
Vegaman might be able to give you better reasons why ex roll with armor is way better than ex roll with fireball invi and why it should be replaced.
Vega- 2013
a Collaboration between gafscale100 and myself
should go without saying but for the sake of being absolutely clear
the buffs that vega has received from ae and 2012 should remain
that includes Ex rcf being +4 on hit and SHC knocking down the opponent, the reversion of the damage on his sweep etc.
First some elementary fixes:
as it is right now, when vega is without his gear and his mask and claw are laying right before his feet he must WALK forward over his gear if he is to pick them up, if he is to try and DASH he will as it were, mini hop and miss the completely. I think that it should be the case the a forward dash OVER his gear ought to trigger him to pick them back up as if he were to walk over them…
and while we’re still discussing mask and claw. We thought that it would be reasonable to both change the input for ‘removing his mask’ from dp+pp, to dp+k and to also remove it’s cost of 1 meter. His increase in damage received from attacks is balance enough to make the meter cost unnecessary.
Revert cosmic heel and Ultra II to their super incarnations.
Cosmic heel ought to be safer on block as it once was and his ultra II ought to start up in 7 frames. As it is his one and only reversal that opponents have any reason to fear it makes sense that it ought to be a good one especially since it is a down+back charge and not a back charge in which he still has some backwards mobility while charging.
While speaking of reversion to Super Vega: his crouching Medium punch ought to be restored to its original damage output of 70 points(up from what it is now, 60).
Improvements to both far and crouching fierce.
Far fierce’s hitbox is incredibly poor. Not only in regard to his hurbox extending infront of and beyond it’s hitbox, but it’s upward and downard extention all around vega’s body! The hurtbox ought to be narrowed down toward his arm to have it not lose to lower hitting normals. For a normal as far reaching and as damaging as this one, perhaps it’s fair for the hurbox to extend beyond the hitbox.
Crouching fierce is a major case as well.
There are two main primary concerns with this normal, it’s functionality as an anti air and it’s horrendous frame disadvantage on both block and hit. We feel that it does make some degree of sense that a far reaching and damaging normal such as this does deserve to have a considerable amount of frame disadvantage, perhaps -6 or -7 would be reasonable, It’s currently -11 on block which leaves vega vulnerable to ULTRAS on block if the opponent is close enough which we feel is too extreme.
It’s anti-air ability is a touchy subject without a doubt. It’s become clear to us after thinking about it that a character like Vega who has terrific walking speed and top notch footsie normals would possibly be too good if he possessed a consistent anti-air normal. Similar to bison, because their walking speed and normals are as good as they are if they were to possess an all purpose consistent anti air, their pressure game would be nearly air tight and would have very few vulnerable areas to mount an offense.
Being that as it may, I feel that vega’s crouching heavy punch STILL deserves a buff in some way. If we continue using bison for this example. Bison’s crouching fierce punch alothough slow and inconsistent STILL has a enough active frames and a wide enough hitbox to be effective with good enough reactions, Crouching heavy punch from vega on the other hand has a skill curve that is unreasonably high. Not only does it lack a decent diagnol hitbox to counter poorly spaced jump ins but it also lacks a decent number of active frames making the timing necessary to use it unreasonably tight!
As stated earlier, we do think that it would be too much to make this normal consistent but we’re looking to buff it to match something like bison’s crouch fierce. Perhaps a slight extention to the hitbox upwards, to give it a more diagnal shaped box and perhaps increasing the scarce number of active frames from 3 to 5 or 6 to help relax the timing window.
And finally, changes made to a couple of his special moves
SHC and ST
SHC
For the level of risk this moves carries with it, I felt that perhaps it’s reward is too underwheling.
As it stands right now, the normal version of SHC is relatively slow, is very unsafe on block, hits once and does not armor break and leads to a techable knock down which does not yield any valuable pressure opportunities for vega.
Given that vega does not a reliable cross up and given that Vega’s up close pressure is very honest, what say that his SHC were to break armor and give a UKD?
As stated earlier, for it’s slow speed and its horrendous frame disadvantage and given that Vega doesn’t have the offensive tools to impose any game breaking offense, giving him an opportunity to try and implement his pressure game seems fair!
ST
No, we didn’t agree on having the EX version be invincible nor did we agree to have any of his STs be FADCable, instead we simply thought to better the improve on is Medium Kick version for anti-air purposes. I did make the argument rationalizing vega’s lack of poor anti-air options, We made an exception here in light that ST is a charge move along with the fact that vega’s poor defense would balance this out.
and what’s more is that if we were to buff MK ST than it would mean that EACH version of ST would serve a purpose
we would have
LK = Juggle
Mk = Anti-air
HK = Damage/ combos
Ex = Juggle, better hitbox, more damage etc.
we put our thoughts here to flush it out ourselves after giving ourselves more time to think it over
other players are welcome to comment and share thoughts…
How do I put this?
Because I’m sick to the back teeth of the incessant whining of this board in general and as such can’t be fucked contributing anything useful, so it’s easier that I just throw in quips and gifs to keep myself from going insane and calling people stupid.
I’m DONE trying to throw in anything useful, as it either gets ignored, or I get flamed because people don’t read posts correctly, so why bother.
Whilst I’m almost flattered, I’m actually not sure if I should take what you said as an insult or a compliment. I am far from a narcissist and a badass. Aggressive to a point but only in game play, I don’t appreciate judgements on myself, good or bad, thank you. So let’s leave the attempt at flattery at the door.
P.S. For the sake of clarification, I was talking about this;
“cr.mp xx light RCF from any range? Do you know the range of crMP? Its ridiculous. The way lpRCF is now it can’t even combo after a crLP from max range. lpRCF would turn into a poke if he had that much range.”
I presented why it wouldn’t be as bad as you are saying, and then I get blown up on because you DIDN’T. READ. WHAT. I. POSTED. CORRECTLY. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Strongly disagree. It is so f-in annoying trying to avoid picking up the mask when it comes off. His walk speed is fast enough to where picking up the claw isnt a problem.
I also strongly disagree with changing any inputs for Vega. Particularly with dp + k for mask. The absolute last thing I want is an accidental mask throw instead of ST. The meter cost is fine if they up the damage. If not then there’s no reason to have the meter cost.
while these are all good buffs 2 few points.
#1 this stuff was nerfed for a reason. doesn’t matter that the reason is probably wrong or stupid. Capcom nerfed it for a reason. Chances of getting it back are slim.
#2 why in the hell do you want to go back to making his kara throw even more of the definition of his game? This is not only annoying to opponents, but becomes extremely boring to do. Why not vary his offense?
#3 cMP damage nerf is fine. Why not buff cMK instead to give it fairly equal reason to use?
far sHP has virrtually the same vulnerabilities as sMK. the trade off is that it’s slower and does more damage. The only thing I recommended the change for is to extend the hitbox on far sHP making it his longest reaching poke. Because of the range and damage, having it risky is fair. If you need to go over low’s that’s what cosmic heel is for.
cHP being unsafe on hit is fair due to the utility i recommended on it to anti air. cHP would become a crutch if you could just throw out a 5 frame heavy with the kind of range cHP would have. It’s still fairly safe if done at max range anyway
honestly, i still don’t think that’d help this move. Short of Vega’s wall dives doing something like this: (@2:53 since fucking time stamps dont work!)
and removing the dust trail on his wall dive so that the opponent does not know which side the wall dive is on till he touches the wall, nor whether it’s SHC or FBA until he comes off the wall…
I really cant see this move being useful in this game.
But this is far too drastic of a change to expect to see being made IMO
The only issue I have with this, is that both a cHP buff and this would be too much. Pretty much every character is either really good in a few areas and really poor in others, or is kinda average in most areas.Vega’s mobility, normals, and damage, combined with being able to deal with anyone from almost damn near any range is just too much. Something would have to give. And it would likely be in the damage department. That’s something I really don’t want to happen
just curious… what about giving EX SHC a hit on the way to the wall like EX FBA so that it hits 3 times and looks identical to EX FBA?
Jesus.