Yeah Fang is basically rush his ass down and don’t let him start throwing balls/setting up mines. Don’t sweat the poison too much.
Man Dhalsim is really hard to fight. I played someone that went back and forth with me and I won slightly more, but all my wins were really close/lucky and I never actually felt in control at any point. That was offline. Online I lose the majority of the time against Sims.
I know things like using EX Legs to help you get in on him in neutral, how to anti-air or airthow his teleports (good sims don’t use this recklessly though and usually cover their teleports or use it to punish bad recovery), V-reversal to shut down slide xx v-trigger. I know moves that I can punish with super and to respect blocked gale unless you have reversal handy.
But one thing I really don’t know how to deal with is his v-skill. It effectively kills my space control and as far as I know you can’t really counter it. You just have to be ready for whatever angle he decides to approach from while he can avoid your fireball and tap you or teleport if you try to come after him. This combined with his poking game and natural ability to avoid/slide under fireballs in general is the main reason I almost never feel in control.
-You can’t meaty his teleport on wakeup, but you can punish the recovery of it after attempting a meaty… but you really have to be ready for it. It feels like more of a read than reaction. This is another reason I don’t ever feel in control. I have no clue where he’s gonna be until after I’ve committed to whatever I was going to attempt to pressure with.
-Jumping in on a whiffed limb is hard too, he usually still has time to get out and AA, but I feel like it’s worth it if you’re successful because his AA is only about 40-60 damage for the most part and Chun’s j. HK is really good… it’s just that her floaty jump means you have to get a good read to pull it off before he can AA you.
-I just went to training last night and I don’t think a blocked drill can be any more than +1 at best and I don’t think it’s ever + on block if you block it standing, so that may be something you can cr. jab out of often. You can also EX SBK the drills if you’re really ready for it (which is what I was doing during the sets before I got a chance to test his advantage in training).
…So is there any other insight someone might have on this matchup? He’s all over the place for me and I would like to have more checks on him if possible.
Don’t use EX legs to get in closer. Don’t waste bar like that. Don’t throw out EX for no reason. This is one of the matchups where EX kikoken is not THAT good, because he can just fly over it and still be safe (while on other chars you get a free 50/50). He can also punish you when you overextend and try to punish the fly. Also, you want to save your bar for Super. Once you have Super you limit a lot of his options. He no longer can use any heavy attacks, or throw a fireball. This is huge.
The Sim matchup is weird. Until you learn it properly it can feel like Sim has the upperhand, but imo I think Chun wins this matchup. Just don’t try to play footsies like you would in other matchups. Just zone (with fireball) or rushdown. In the neutral you want to use b+hp/sweep a lot, because it beats a lot of pokes (don’t spam it though!). st.hp is also really good vs him. He has trouble spacing it. Try to throw FB on whiff normals to close ground (LP from full screen is a good way to close ground, but don’t get too predictable, because they can teleport on read and punish you hard). The fly is annoying to deal with for sure, but you can punish it with st.hk if he flies too close.
You can punish his divekick/drills with st.lp/st.lk. You also need to punish random teleports with st.hk (get crush counter) with a followup (st.hp/sweep/ex legs/etc) (Can use st.mp in vtrigger and juggle to cr.hp xx HK Legs). If you just punish with st.lk there is no real risk for him and he’ll keep using it.
Also, don’t use airlegs on offense, good Sims can slide on reaction and tripguard punish you (it’s very easy to do on reaction!). You will lose all the momentum and all your efforts of getting in on him will have been for nothing. Just pressure him without airlegs using properly spaced fwd.hk’s, kikokens, fwd.mp and st.hp, etc
And always be ready for slide xx vtrigger when they have bar (and vreversal it).
Just per used some of the top ranked sims and chuns trying to find games where chun wins.
Man it’s pretty fucked up. I’m seeing a lopsided 8-2 or even 9-1 win margin in sims favor.
Granted that I was mostly seeing +14k LP sims versus against 10-12 k LP chuns… But it was that lopsided.
The only time I saw it go even was etanim versus some sim, etanim was higher ranked like 30 and the sim was like 230.
Everything else was totally sim favor.
So I searched the Chun top rankers and could find no sims for like the first 5 players… Odd.
Then I finally spotted a 3 match set from fragment (he’s 15k LP) versus a sim that is 7.5 k LP so I’m thinking… Ok gonna finally see some chun ownage with this big a discrepancy between players that grind ranked.
Guess who won the match?
The sim took it 2-1
Frag won the first match in a predictable 2 rounds to 0 margin. Second match begins. Frag wins first round again.
Then sim wins the next 2 rounds.
Last match, frag wins the first round once again and loses the next 2 rounds.
The thing is, this is a top 10, 15 K LP Chun versus an AVERAGE sim… And yet Chun still loses.
How can this be considered a matchup that is even or Chun winning when almost all the results point to something TOTALLY different?
You haven’t been looking at all of the results if you’re basing it only on online play. You have to realize that even the top ranked Chuns online can have shitty matchup experience vs some characters. Dhalsim’s neutral game isn’t as good vs Chun as Nash’s and she can jump in on Sim more easily than she can Nash. Nash I feel is more of a matchup where you can effectively get lamed out and just has too many options in the neutral vs you. Chun on the other hand has a lot of good counter poke buttons vs Sim’s options and can actually force jumps on him.
Nuki beat Arturo pretty well at Evo just forcing the counter poke game from a range and not being afraid to jump in. You’ll get anti aired sometimes but all it takes is to get him to block or get hit with one j.HK and you can go in. If he actually gets hit by the j.HK his life will melt away at 900. His poking options all have a lot of recovery where Chun’s forward jump is pretty viable. Once you get in you can just c.LP him down and he doesn’t have the backdash/V reversal/V Trigger options that Nash has to escape.
About 44 minutes in.
https://youtu.be/8if0lvs0e0o?t=2641
I would say her worst matchups are Nash and Guile, but they’re not terrible matchups either. Ryu can be a pain if his spacing is on point, but you can eventually command the neutral game when you can walk in close enough
Thanks for that link. Will watch it now.
I beat nashes way more than I beat sims… It’s like not even in the same ballpark for me. Not saying that Nash is easy or anything, but my win percentage against sim is probably around 10% whereas my win percentage against Nash is probably like 40-50%
Of course that’s just me and doesn’t mean that much in that context, but it means something to me when all I see is chuns losing to sim. Anyways, gonna watch now.
Most likely just due to pure matchup inexperience. Having matchup inexperience can put the a matchup heavily against you even if the matchup is actually in your favor. The unknown is always the strongest variable.
Nash clearly has better tools against Chun than Sim, but everyone plays Nash so you’re inevitably going to have more wins and more comfort vs Nash.
Ok watched the matches. I don’t know what game you are watching there dj but I see something almost completely different. The tale of the tape wasn’t chuns buttons beat sims or even chuns jumps beat sims AA’s.
It was sim had a very hard time doing anything about chuns 3/4 screen fireball.
Online all sims do is teleport punish that shit for half life. But arturo was unwilling to even try. He ported in like once at neutral for the entire match, got jabbed, mixed up and died.
But his port was a weird one. It was a mixup port not an anti fireball one. And nuki was fireballing VERY predictably. Same timing and doing things like jump back land and immediately fireball… Any 4K LP sim would be able to see that pattern.
Of course Sabin saw it, but he seemed to scared to want to try to do anything.
I think Sabin got caught right there playing to safe and giving chun no reason fear throwing fireballs.
The other thing I saw was that online against sims, I have a HUGE problem with sim porting> I jab or st.lk him> go to throw him or do my jab as he lands> get hit by sim jab. The problem is that the timing for the jab is always different for chun depending on how high sim was when I AA’d him, whereas all sim has to do is mash jab and the frame buffer makes sure the jab comes out on the first frame EVERYTIME… So I’m trying to hit a variable 2 frame window with my light attacks, or a variable 3 frame window with my medium and heavy attacks…
I’ve had @Highlandfireball complain about this same thing and he was the one that brought it to my attention… But it’s something that causes huge problems in the matchup for me cause it near gives sim free teleports, online at the very least which is where 99.9999% of my experience comes from.
Tldr, art played kinda bad, and maybe online has more to do with it than I’m giving it credit for.
I wasn’t going to explain everything, but fireball is one of the counter poke tools, yes. Along with b+HP and quite a few other buttons. You could clearly see Arturo getting slammed by them during his poke game.
Online is online. You’re going to have a harder time vs every character online. Step offline and the online gimmicks are less strong and kings of Sim like Arturo gotta feel the pressure when things aren’t going their way. Arturo apparently lost both times to Chun Li at Evo.
You can’t land any of those HAM raw teleports offline. There’s a few offline Sims that still try to play like that, but they don’t have the success that Arturo or Champ do. I imagine if you played offline you wouldn’t have those problems with landing buttons after AAing his teleport. Doesn’t seem like any of the top Sims want to bank on it either.
The worst I’ve been beaten by a sim was offline and it was to basically nothing but teleport BS. Like, nuki didn’t quick getup after getting knocked down. I did the same versus the offline sim I played against, didn’t matter much at all. He just waited a second then did his teleport mixup as I was waking up… Art didn’t do that. He had no answer for oki when his opponent stayed on the ground. Granted that nuki probably could have reacted with ex SBK better in that situation to the teleport, but maybe not. Even if he did that could be considered a good trade for sim since it knocks sim away, uses a chun meter and kinda kills the ability to get hit by anything stronger like wakeup super.
As far as “your going to have more trouble online against characters”
Doesn’t that go both ways and therefor even itself out?
Well the trouble you’re going to have vs offline characters is real trouble. The trouble you have vs things online is stuff that you will take to an offline tournament and get bodied. I’m sure a lot of those 5,000 people that lost really early thought they could bring online shenanigans to offline and didn’t get very far. Granted the 8 frames always has the game virtually “online” but online is obviously only going to add to the issues, especially from far distances.
Nuki’s rushdown game didn’t really require super any way. He could have easily spent an EX SBK if Arturo’s oki game was truly on point and then just found another way and rushed him to death. Arturo couldn’t handle Chun’s walk in jab game at all and this was with Nuki using almost no instant legs (which aren’t good vs Sim any way). Just moving in and forcing throw/counter hit games off the jabs.
Nuki also almost took one of the rounds from a huge life deficit by simply landing a V skill after a Yoga Sniper recovery from Art. He had enough time to dash in with V Trigger and do a juggle combo that took half life then land an overhead. If he confirmed the s.MP he landed he would have completely turned the match around and won right there.
So much text, where to begin 
Like DevilJin said, online is online. It’s hard to find really good Dhalsims, so it’s very hard to get experience in the matchup. Therefor not a lot of Chun’s online grasp the matchup, let alone grasp it on a high level. It’s also not good to lookup matchup stuff online, online players are ehhhhhhh not the best quality of players. At least look at tournament play, specifically top 8/16 matches.
In tournaments Chun players beat Sim players all the time. I think when Art last played Ricki in casuals, Ricki beat him pretty bad (like 10-1 or something, but don’t quote me on that). That’s because she has a solid grasp of the matchup, because they play all the time.
Art doesn’t do random teleports because he knows at top level players can punish that shit hard, and it’s easy to react to. 1 wrong fireball read and you can give the entire round away from teleporting in. It’s a very high risk.
And yes, it’s hard to time a meaty when they teleport and you st.lk them. That’s your fault though, that’s not ‘the matchup’. Use b+hp, it has more active frames so it’s easier to time. Better yet, don’t use st.lk to punish the teleports, like I said earlier you want to punish them hard for using it randomly in neutral. St.hk crush counter into a followup (sweep, ex legs, st.hp, etc).
I’m not going to go into specifics on why I think Chun has an advantage in this matchup (it might be even though, but definitely not in Sim’s favor). But it has to do with Chun’s relentless pressure/offense once she gets in. Also, all you need to land is 1 b+hp/sweep and you’re in. Sim needs to land way more hits in neutral to beat you.
But tbh, I dunno where you get the balls to say that “Art played bad” when all your experience is from playing online, and you only have like a 10% winrate against Sims. You clearly don’t understand the character or the matchup, how can you judge other people’s play coming from this place?
While I dislike the matchup against Dhalsim, I think it’s more productive to share advice than to argue about who’s favored. I’ve struggled a lot against Dhalsim, recently had a lot more success by formulating an actual gameplan, and I’m low plat (7500) to give you an idea of my online skill level.
So against most zoning playstyles (Nash / Guile / Ryu) Chun can leverage quite a lot of ground simply by walking forward and using cr. mp to go under projectiles, Fang being even easier to get in on because his projectiles aren’t that effective at controlling space. Against Dhalsim who can easily control the ground however, that doesn’t work so if you overly rely on cr. mp then you will be at a loss for a gameplan.
Simply walking forward is obviously not easy to do because Dhalsim’s normals allow him to space just outside of Chun’s. So if you want to walk forward, you will have to do so when he’s not attacking, and scaring him out of throwing attacks is how I’ll focus my strategy on walking him down.
The first way to scare a Dhalsim out of attacking is by walking behind a fireball. Dhalsim’s options against a fireball are st. HP or float over it (floating being a bit of a stalemate due to chun’s st. HK), and simply having a fireball out will allow you to cover space. Due to Dhalsim’s teleport threat I’ll consider this the high risk high reward option. In order to actually be able to throw a fireball you’ll most likely need to be out of range for Dhalsim’s pokes already, which is basically at full screen.
Another way to scare Dhalsim out of attacking is simply by staying outside of his effective range and counterpoking. If he whiffs any limb besides st. MP at long range, you can easily sweep them and get in. If you have Super, this is even more effective, as you super any whiffed limbs. Dhalsim thus doesn’t want to just whiff his limbs to control space. **In order to close ground on him you’ll need to coerce him into walking forward, then walk forward at the same time, while he’s not attacking. ** This is the safer method to get in, and if Dhalsim is hesitant to walk in then that’s when you start setting up your fireball game.
Once you’ve gotten past his max limb range there’s a few basic matchup interactions that you’ll need to know. st. HP is amazing against him, so you don’t need to walk right into throw range to effectively begin your aggression. Perhaps most importantly is the fact that playing against Dhalsim requires a legitimate offensive foundation, while Chun as a character can otherwise allow you to succeed without really having one. If you rely on dashing in to start up your offense, or dashing after a blockstring then a good Dhalsim, who will a really solidified defense, will absolutely call you out on it. You can’t rely on air legs to blow up late techs. Your offense needs to be based on walking, not dashing, as you need to threaten walk-up throws, shimmies, and st. lp throw baits. In V-Trigger, delayed f+hk is also a very good tool as it hops over late techs and allows you to lead into a combo on hit, while generally being less broadcasted than air legs.
On another note whenever Dhalsim throws out an EX fireball at full screen I generally try to jump over it, as the teleport mixup game is real and I’d much rather just get anti aired than take a full combo. Not sure how effective this actually is, anyone feel free to correct me if it’s a dumb idea.
Any chance we can have the MU drop downs on the first page like we did for SFIV. As in organised character by character with the MU notes inside?
Excellent post dude:) thats the kind of stuff needed in a matchup discussion. Srkhas become bad though so few people talk in specifics. And non specifics tend to not do much 
I have the audacity to say that because thats what the game showed. Very obvious fireball timings that were left unchecked on read. Its no different than saying daigo or tokido/whoever played like shit by never AAing their opponent, or by dropping 3 combos in one round.
At a high level you cant allow easy timings to go unchecked. Thats exactly what high level is… Not letting obvious patterns get used against you, and playing in a safe manner.
It would be a completely different story if nuki were mixing up his timing and spacing… But he wasnt. He was waiting for art to teleport and punish him so that he (nuki) would have an alternative read on art and a viable bait against sim… But art never even took the free (one time) damage cause he just wanted to play safe the entire time.
Notice how in the second match that the fireball was annoying art enough that art decided to try and counter it on multiple occasions via alternative methods like hk slide.
Art basically told himself never to use port to anticipate the kikoken, even though in that match it was staring him right in the face the entire time.
Sorry but thats incorrect play, whether hes a top class legend or a 4k LP baddie.
Couple of things I’ll take away from this is to use B+HP more to stuff his limbs. I have been going for sweep to whiff punish the limbs, but I need to use B+HP much more. Also st. HK is a good check to his V-skill, so I’ll be using that more. I was already working on the habit to use B+HP as a meaty after AAing him out of a teleport. Another nice thing I learned, is you can punish his j. LP even on hit as long as you’re in range. It’s about -7 on hit.
A couple of things I don’t necessarily agree with is being married to meter too much and avoiding using EX Legs. Meter is gained very fast in this game and I’m hardly ever without super available whether I spend it on an EX or not. The way I’m talking about using them though is the same way Nuki uses them, when something is blocked and you know nothing they stick out afterward can actually beat EX legs. That’s a knockdown/setup on hit and safe on block. I’m not throwing it out without reason. In the video, Nuki used it about 4-5 times vs Art for reference. But I am well aware of the usefulness of shutting down his tools with CA when I have it. I always check how many things I can punish with CA in every matchup.
The other thing I wouldn’t rely on too much is using st. HK to counter teleports, simply because it has a very bad blind spot and you can’t predict if Sim is going to teleport within that blindspot. So even though frame-wise you can react and get it out before he’s able to attack for a crush counter when he’s within that angle, the blind spots make it unreliable and leaves you open to a full combo more often than not.
-Re: Guile: I don’t really find him hard to fight at all in this game. Probably because I played the matchup in SF4 a lot and made sure I had reactions and checks to his zoning when his recovery was much faster and my ultra was 2 frames slower than Chun’s CA is in this game. This version of Guile is nothing compared to Guile, Juri and Poison from SF4 recovery-wise and is still a charge character (meaning he can’t just dash in and out freely like Nash and still have access to his specials). The only game-changer I feel is his V-trigger, but that burns out pretty fast if he’s using it in neutral as opposed to confirming into the big V-trigger combo. I already gave my initial thoughts on the match… that hasn’t changed.
Does anyone have some advice on Rashid ?
Mainly what i noticed is that his back walk speed is really fast. I am finding it hard to pressure him effectively if he isn’t holding down back. How would you guys approach the matchup in general ?
Is it me or does Chun have harder time against unorthodox characters. I can fight an army of shotos, Nash, Guiles, etc,etc but others like Rashid and FANG are a tremendous pain in the ass to get by.
I kind of agree with Chun having more trouble with the unorthodox chars. I’m working on Rashid too. His damage isn’t considered high, but his mobility and v-reversal makes him hard to pin down and every time he lands mixer, that is massive corner carry where his shenanigans get a little harder to deal with. He also has really good buttons that I think people don’t mention as often about the character. Annoying as it is, I don’t have too much trouble beating the ones online, but I can’t beat my friend’s Rashid offline in tournament. So I’m working on that.
-Be ready to punish anything -4 or greater (Overhead, v-skill roll attack, EX Spike if you’re close enough, etc.) into a knock down if you can because you might not get the chance to capitalize again. This is a very fast-paced matchup most of the time.
-His St. HP and cr. HP are very good at the midrange. It’s easy to get caught throwing out your own pokes too early, miss while he’s swaying during the move, and then getting tagged by the move, so be careful and make sure you’re either in range or you’re the one doing the whiff punishing. Fireballs beat these normals, but then you gotta watch out for the jump HP.
Up close, his cr. HP is often used for pressure along with whirlwind shot. There’s a gap in between the MK, HK and EX shot that you can interrupt, but it’s tight if you’re trying to use cr. LP/cr. LK to beat it. EX SBK will punish the gap for free. There’s no gap for cr. HP xx LK shot, but that is very punishable on block.
-J. HP is a high priority jump attack of his. One of the harder jumpins to challenge imo. Either use B+HP from farther away or B+HK if he’s jumping in closer. Of course st. LK works too if you time it right.
-His projectiles have a very slow frame count and you can reaction jump in on them, even the light one (may require practice). He can v-skill during the HK version but that’s not really going to punish you
-If he throws out v-trigger in neutral, get rid of it fast by either tossing an EX Kikoken at the tornado (he can EX Eagle spike this to punish fireballs, but even if he does, it’s less of a hassle than dealing with the tornado) or running up and blocking it as soon as possible. Supering it on reaction as he’s tossing it out is the best option if you have the meter.
-LP mixer pressure is -2 point blank, then you have to act fast. Personally, if I know anything is -2 point blank, I’ll challenge it with st. MP because nothing other than invincible moves will beat it and you get more damage on counterhit conversions and more frame advantage on block. The only thing you should be worrying about in this situation is baiting EX mixer if he has meter.
-EX Mixer is usually his gimmick whenever he’s at -2. It’s not a lot of damage for an EX reversal, but the corner carry is nothing to sneeze at. I’ve heard people report that they have trouble landing CC st. HK as a punish to this because he crouches down during part of the recovery. I haven’t had a problem with this, but if you do, try to go for F+HK -> cr. LP xx LK Legs -> cr. LP xx LK SBK instead.
-If you make him block a F+MP from mid range, he can beat a following F+MP with his cr. MK. However, if you do st. HP afterward instead, that will beat his cr. MK. It’s an interesting interaction of hitboxes. He has other buttons to beat the st. HP, but then your F+MP will beat those. RPS normals.
-His wall cling is kind of stupid. The wall jump where he shoots downward and goes for j. MK is very hard to beat for some reason (I’ve been in the lab with this and it’s like his hurtbox shrinks or disappears at certain points). I’ve found the most success from just pressing st. LK repeatedly as soon as you see him cling to the wall.
-A lot of his moves become safer when a tornado is on the screen and he can alter the trajectory of his movement. Keep that in mind vs. Rashids who know tricks to manipulate the WW shot to get those move property changes without V-trigger.
-If he tries to chip you out with a normal cancelled into his Super. Don’t v-reversal, that will get you killed. Instead use EX Kikoken as it negates the hitbox of the super. I found this out on accident trying to v-reversal.
Going through high level Chun vs Nash footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9cSFA8fB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoX6lrlg4WM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl3jZqo9qMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvlTqVBXTZw
This has to be Chun’s worst.
Nash has mobility and safe buttons with reach that she gets to block until pushed out of range.
The MOV match really bad looking and that was a semi final match with him jumping forward.
Seems like Chun has to really maximize any mistake with
[list]
[] crLP xx …
[] crMK xx …
[] sLK xx …
[] EX Legs
[/list]
to punish anything badly spaced.
Notice a lot of dash or walk up stMP
MOV likes to use meter on EX Legs but overall seems to be effective to hold Super
Lots of dash in block, empty jump forward and neutral from Chun to get in.
Seems to be a lot of staggered pressure with gaps to block or catch startup. Overall, the theme seems to get in and try to stay in… somehow. Nash dashes are really fast and V trigger or V reversal get him out. Tons of chasing.
V Meter - seems like going for V Trigger is the move. I guess to up the damage when Chun does get a hit and you really don’t want to give Nash space or out your face EVER.
Ugh might need to practice with Nash to understand him better. Not really into the way he plays.
Ive been saying its her worst since February. Its not terrible, but don’t think its in her favor. As good as Chun is, shes struggles vs zoning thats better than hers with no move that completely disrespects projectiles to get her in. His backdash is completely faster and takes up space quicker than any of her forward movement too. Good thing Ibuki is out.
Duck Strong has said that he thinks she does well, but I don’t see it.