Iall over booms and fireballs for a surprise option.
@Dime_x What is the range that you are suggesting we IALL from?
Let’s say that Nash threw a SB from Chun’s jumping distance. Wouldn’t he be able to cr.MP that IALL ? because I imagine the fireball had to be fairly close to Chun for the IALL to go over the fireball. It seems to me that at this point Nash would have already recovered and would be ready to AA.
Its less a range issue and more an opponent/boom strength/surprise factor issue. If the opponent isnt open for iall over booms then they are generally being more offensive and chun should have her chances there, on nashes offense.
This is great Sim and Rashid info guys @Darklightjg1 and @NagaSiren and @CharmingRogue
How do you guys go about dealing with Sim’s ex fireball teleport mix up?
EX SBK, don’t quickrise, etc. Without meter you just have to guess.
Hey guys wanted to give a few tips vs vega.
Barecelona Attack ( ex as well)
If vega does it randomly you can beat it clean with a well timed jump lk. Yea its slow but you should not ever let vega score either regular or ex barcelona on you. The only time he has a good chance is if you jumped at him and then he does ex or off of a knockdown. Even then there are ways to get out of his ex barcelona 50 50s.
Also from what i have gathered there is no point trying to even bother trying to play neutral vs vega most of the match. Instead use it to score either a knockdown or a safe way in and kill him asap. Believe it or not he can harrass chun with alot of his clawless normals. Not to mention respecting him too much while he is upclose will get you command grabbed alot. Best thing i can say is stay outside his sweep range when in neutral and make sure to punish any and all jumps from vega. If you are within his sweep range pay attention to when the vega likes to sweep so you can you block it and get a combo going into spinning bird kick to push him to corner and start your pressure. Once your in do NOT let him breath. Seriously :,!K vega and please be sure to post any suggestions you have for him and any other character in here.
Honestly although nash is annoying i do not recommend chasing him. Cornering him is a great idea by bulldogging him amd such but literally dashing in alot is what he wants and that will get you killed quickly. He may have the better dash and fireball and such but chun has better pokes and better v trigger. If he makes a mistake she gets in and gives him alot of trouble. Main issue chun has is getting in due to her floaty jump and the fact he can pretty much hide behind his projectile like a wall like strategy and just react to each thing you do.
Good thing is her st lk beats out his moonsaults free and his jump ins are not that good vs her at all. If you have a good read on when he will fireball a well time v skill will work but from my experience it seems the slowest traveling fb gives her the most issues countering wise. Also remember to punish any upclose poorly spaced scythe kick and punish his bazooka knee on block as it is not safe. Remember nash is mostly good at having the space to force you into walking into his normals or specials so when you close the gap safely he loses a huge advantage he has on most chars.
Thanks. I do that now but what about when you’re standing and they go for it?
The problem with Nash is his play style naturally takes advantage of Chuns play style. He can always quickly move away from her relevant ranges and telegraph her approaches. She theoretically has the tools to tear him up if she gets in, but his style and options mean you’ll usually take significant damage before that happens. He can also absorb your regular fireballs to gain V Gauge so you’re limited in using your fireball to clear his. Which either way hes usually too far away for your mp or hp fireball to connect any way.
While on the offense he has a lot of ways to suddenly invade Chuns space and you have to react to all of them or risk the match quickly turning in his favor.
The thing about Chun is she’s really terrible at chasing people. Her short range dash, her slow v skill and jump make it hard for her to be offensive against runaway players.
This fucked me up for the longest time and made me hate the game. Everyone was just running away from me and I would get fucked up chasing them as there are just to many antibulldogging strategies out there. Plus combined with the long stages it meant chasing people for stupid amounts of time. This is to help scrubs and bad players. There is no 2 ways about it. That’s what it is. And it works.
Ok so, how to get past it?
I of course started to just throw fireballs… But the scrubs would just turn around and jump at me all day and not allow me to throw fireballs. What a conundrum. So then, after a long time. I realized that these players were just playing to counter whatever obvious strategy I was going to throw their way. They weren’t interested in outs killing me, just beating my strategy.
So that’s when I realized that all I really had to do was feign like I was going to throw fireballs and low and behold they move forward. So that’s what my basic playstyle has become with Chun. Walk backwards to get a charge, then right when I get a charge I dash forward cause they will be moving towards me expecting me to fireball. Its weakness footsies shit but this is the on,y way I can get people to try to engage me.
Sometimes they catch on and start to back off and bait again, at which point I see they are being bad again and I just back off as well and resume the “will I fireball or won’t I” baiting game again.
Chun is fine when people try to engage her, especially on the ground. But she’s struggles when people start trying to avoid playing against her and just start trying to wiff punish her dash ins and forward walks (of course this isn’t actually wiff punishing but that’s the strategy)
As an example, when it comes to not knowing this or being super hard headed about it, nuki is very aggressive with running after people and he pays for it a lot. That’s exactly how I used to p,ay as well but without nukis bulldogging skills. I don’t think the way he’s currently playing is an effective way to play Chun, nor do I feel the style can last in the long term. Nash tends to destroy most chuns for this reason. But when I play against nash I don’t run in. I just match fireballs or throw fireballs and try to anticipate a v trigger or a scythe kick over my fireballs and counter the Nash. Running in against Nash is suicide and a good way to lose to him.
I still do it and lose because of it, but it’s a conscious thing I tell myself not to do and I tend to have more success when I’m not doing it.
Yeah, not engaging Chun and making her move forward while chipping away is one of the key ways to give her a hard time. Character’s who do really well at this imo are Nash (with his added bonus of MK Scythe for an additional 25 chip that’s hard to punish without meter), Rashid, Ryu, Sim, Guile, and Fang. I’d say Chun herself too, but being a charge zoner with her projectiles means she can’t just backdash and throw them and she doesn’t fire them out as fast as Fang or Guile, so that makes it a bit easier to deal with imo.
Getting in on them or slowly inching them to the corner helps… except for the ones who have easy ways out of the corner as well with side-switching v-reversals. The worst thing that could happen when Chun is chasing, is for someone to switch sides and those characters get it nearly for free… and then you’re most likely trapped in the corner. You basically have to call it out with a grab just to keep them in the corner.
I usually play a mix of the bulldog approach and semi-matching their projectile game just to hopefully keep them focused on it as I make my way forward. I miss hasanshu lol.
I’ve also had success with not engaging them myself (i.e. avoiding their projectiles to the best of my ability and then they get impatient and come in). Needless to say, this only works out well when you are leveraging a life lead or you have enough health for them not to be comfortable with you staying back and not biting.
Ideally, you’d save your meter for a guaranteed threat with super rather than gamble on getting in with EX Kikoken, but that takes longer to build and you need to be in somewhat of a lead or matching their health, so you don’t end up in the situation where you’re desperate to land it and they know, so they just toy with you. The threat of super should definitely slow down their keepaway game and make harder for them not to engage you, but again you don’t want to be too far down in life, so that even if you’re telegraphing it, it’ll will be them who’s more under pressure than you.
Having EX Legs as a legit punish to some of the fireballs I think is the 2nd best tool she has for toning down the keepaway and the knockdown from it is very beneficial, but you have to be in roughly the same range you’d need to be in to punish with a slide and that’s where most competent players will stop with the unsafe stuff and usually try to create some space before they start again. Use that to your advantage and back them into the corner if you can.
Even though I don’t hold it as high as the above two metered moves, EX kikoken is still pretty good for getting in or getting some space as long as it isn’t erased by someone else’s EX. It’s usually a one-off mixup on block or she can connect a F+MP a majority of the time on hit (cancel into v-trigger if you have it for followups). I wish it was a bit faster though. It’s somewhat easy to react to with your own EX or get around it unless you’re within poking range.
-I need to test if I can get IALL to punish certain projectiles on reaction. I’ve definitely gotten over FBs and hit people, but I don’t know if it was ever a legit punish or if the opponent just wasn’t ready.
Edit: Confirmed that you can IALL Ryu’s fireball on reaction. It’s hard though. The LK version is easier to actually punish with but a lot harder to do a followup cr. jab after.
Here’s a pro guide to beat Alex:
Wait for him to lariat ->low sliding punch
Once you have v gauge do this and VTC it
You now won the match.
Are you in neutral? Mash standing roundhouse. You can walk out of his lariat/flash chop power bomb set ups half of the time.You can bait out parry attempts by jabbing. If he parries the jab and tries to sledgehammer you can block and punish. Don’t IALL every time you jump or you’re going to eat the knee. The only way you can lose this is if you won’t stop mashing jab on wake up or you got completely outplayed.
If you mash st.hk would he not just ex elbow through it at some point?
@Darklightjg1 I would also add Vega to this list. If Vega get a life lead on Chun, i usually find it incredibly difficult to comeback, i honestly think the only hope is to get a VTC from a hit and then a knockdown but if that didn’t happen then it get incredibly hard to chase a Vega if he has a life lead.
I have been a Cody main in SF4 and the feeling of playing on a thin ice is definitely something that he and SF5 Chun share IMO. Cody had very hard time if he got knocked down once and with Chun, it often feel that one mistake could turn things horribly, especially against the characters you mentioned earlier where it can be hard to chase them.
That’s why I’ll definitely be playing Ibuki in matchups vs characters with strong backwards movement. Easier to just have a character that can throw themselves at the opponent faster when you need to lock them down. Vega and Nash both don’t have true reversals so once I’m in I just land bnbs and then use Ibuki’s piss easy meaties, including one that gives enough time to shimmy back and forth first.
Did you have 2 almost identical recordings, one with a Light fireball and the other with a jab instead? I have tried reacting to fireballs with IALL many times and have not been able to get it consistently. I came to the conclusion that it’s too slow to punish the fireball recovery on reaction. So your post interests me lol
I tried it too and can’t get the punish consistently, so while it’s still doable, it’s not something to rely on very often… especially since you need to be pretty close to do it (less time to jump over the fireball in the first place).
I will say it’s still good to have as a option because the opponent’s tendencies will factor more into going over and punishing his FB with IALLs than the controlled environment of random fake buffer into jab vs Hadouken.
If he’s in a baiting mood, I usually take that as a partial victory as well since that gives more leeway to move in when he’s not opting to use his best ground move.
Haven’t been able to play since Urien came out, I’ve been really busy with other things.
How’s the match up looking so far?
Yeah, I use it a lot as a read. But if it’s possible on reaction then that’s really insane lol. Maybe if they fix the input lag. And you’re right, if he has to worry about airlegs that makes your ground game a lot stronger.
So far imo slightly in Chun’s favor, but I think Urien can fight Chun well.
Been spending a good amount of time with my friend who is a very good Ryu player.
A lot of this matchup comes down to the pokes, playing a good midrange game, good optimized damage on whiffed dp and making good use of v-trigger.
First, buttons. The best buttons are used at midrange. This includes st.HP, st.HK (after certain blockstrings e.g. cr.lp, cr.mk, lp kikoken, CC st.hk dash confirm into BnB), cr.mk and most importantly cr.mp. The cr.mp is since it shuts down his fireball game and opens Ryu up to either block, dp, throw or hit a button. It’s important to note that when using cr.mp that you space it so that the fist just hits Ryu on the last active frames so that it stays safe on block or hit. Any earlier will result in an easy punish. Use your normals at max range.
With Ryu having 3 frames of invincibility on startup with dp, it makes crush counter setups and meatys very difficult. It is important to learn how to bait out these moves during knockdown. Often I will st.MP over a downed opponent to make Ryu attempt a DP punish. Time these right and you can find yourself in a great position to cause some serious damage off CC, especially if you have v-trigger. If your opponent is too smart for that, I cr.lk, cr.lp and cr.mk are great tools to apply pressure and potentially even open up counter hits.
General rule of thumb for dealing with crossups on any matchup is to use backwards jumping lp. The hitbox of the move makes it hard for the opponent to trade with in the air.
Anti-air punishes are something to consider when in v-trigger. Best anti-airs are b+hk, st.lk but on v-trigger it is optimal to use b+hk into st.hp or st.hk. If you have decent execution, b+hk into f+hk into st.hp during v-trigger is a great combo to cause a good amount of damage on Ryu or any other opponent. Be aware of helicopter kicks that may float over your anti-airs.
A great tool to use on hard knockdown or throw is Chun-Li’s v-skill. Helps to establish pressure even if you don’t do anything off of it. If spaced correctly, can become very ambiguous until it is too late. Best moves to use are j.mk, j.d+mk into light air legs (block or hit), j.hk and j.hp when coming down on an opponent.
A simple frame trap to catch Ryu off guard is st.mp (blocked), st.b+hp (CC). In case the mp does hit, be prepared to go into cr.mk and finish off with M SBK or ex legs or medium/hard legs into super. If you get a crush counter hit, cr.hk works as a follow-up without v-trigger. With v-trigger, st.b+hp (CC), st.b+hp, st.hp, ex legs/super. This frame trap works the best in the corner but can be used at certain ranges midscreen.
One of the most important aspects that I have learned playing against a high level Ryu is that patience is truly a virtue in this matchup. Every other character matchup may have Chun taking control with instant air legs, crazy combos off cr.lp and huge comebacks during v-trigger. The Ryu vs. Chun-Li matchup is one that requires patience simply because of how easy it is for Ryu to cause crazy damage off counter hits. This matchup is about trying to open up your opponent more so than any other character. Whiffing a few st.hp is okay if it means getting Ryu to try to sweep Chun-Li.
Recap: Use cr.mp, st.hp, cr.mk, cr.lk, st.mk at max range and be patient against Ryu. Match can either go by very fast or very slow depending on skill of Ryu player and familiarity of matchup.