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Matchups Part 3
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Eh fuck it Part 5
I know it might be really early, but one matchup I’m having trouble with is Bison. Since he’s so safe on so many of his options, I’m not sure what to do.
I second this.
Meanwhile in the Bison thread we are struggling with good buttons.
Chuns normals completely outclass Bison. Out-class.
Getting wrecked by Ryu. Anyone got any tips.
same goes to me, especially hadoken or shoryuken ryu spammers as well heavy pressure,land in front of ur face, tech any u press buttons :s
Same lol, hard to deal with his fireball crap as chun, and he hits pretty hard.
Ryu is actually tough even though I played that match a lot vs some really good ones(fourwude xsk samurai and crizzle) I still feel it is a struggle. Some key things though, his j.lk can stuff her lk AA so try to use b+HK as much as possible. His FB can be punished on block with lk lightning legs(Ex if closer) so walk him down and c.mp under some and punish others on block. Max distance iial is really good vs him too so learn that distance. Obviously don’t jump in this match basically ever as you want to get him cornered where you can sit around c.mk range and punish his FB’s easily on block.
Do slide cr. Mp at a range to reset yourself during a fireball war not neutral jump. Her kikoken is pretty good but if with perfect charging it is a losing battle. If he counter fireballs you (you throw first fireball) though you have massive + frames and can tag him with st. RH like guile f. HP in older games at some ranges or use that to move. A max range air LL preemptively is decently hard to anti air on reaction and can evade fireballs into a punish. Learn the range you can punish fireball on block with EX legs and bulldog in that area to make him think spamming fireballs isn’t the best thing in the world.
Parry against your long range single pokes needs to be punished on whiff with sweep (which will be CC), ex legs or super. If he parties a fireball and he has to dedicate to whiffing a second parry for your followup normal or just do nothing since you can hit him before he can act easily. So mixup doing a second normal and not doing one to get him second guessing g what he should do in that situation.
F. Mp is good for stuffing fireball startup remember to link ex legs and super on counter hit.
You can always punish his sweep with cr. Mk into mk sbk.
I feel chun does fine if she can handle the fireballs well but that is just a different dynamic this time around so takes some getting used to. I haven’t played forwude but that is how I am handling the match at the second.
I’ve been unable to deal with pressure at all. The only time I win seems to be if I’m playing a more cautious opponent.
yeah,same here, it seems like if chun got rushed and pressure, mostly ended up GG, for me,ryu cammy or mika is hard to deal once they get in, shoryuken/grab/jab masher is the worst for me, or even lag spike i perform the move saw the opponent got hit instead im the one who got owned,lol :o
Versus Ryu:
This is one of the matchups I feel relatively confident in. I don’t have a whole lot of other matchups figured ATM. But I’m around 1500 LP (terrible) but at that LP I’ve fought against and beaten 3k LP ryus… As well as when I was around 300 LP I beat a 2k LP Ryu. Not saying I have the matchup down and don’t lose to ryus, but I’ve seen that it’s one of the matchups where Chun can play her own game, to a certain extent.
Anti fireball game:
First engage in a fireball war. You can’t win this, but that isn’t the point. The point is to try and get Ryu predictable in his fireball patterns. Once you’ve got Ryu to a rhythm in his fireballs, you can dash cr.mp to go under an anticipated fireball.
Mix this up with not dashing and instead just doing a v skill. The v skill will move you over ryus fireballs WITH CHARGE. At which point you get to dictate the tempo cause he most likely can’t throw a fireball as you land, but you can throw a fireball at him now.
Neutral jumping fireballs is great especially if you know your options depending on ryus ranges that he wiffed the fireball at. For instance you can neutral jump a fireball and then walk backwards to gain a charge and throw your own fireball. Which may give you fireball advantage. Or you can neutral jump and then walk forward into your poke/AA range and wait for Ryu to jump at you or do a fireball from a really unsafe distance that you can often punish on reaction with a cr.mp.
The thing NOT to do against fireball spammy ryus is to try and dash in on them when you see them jumping backwards. If you must get in, then walk in. It allows you to be able to AA Ryu at a moments notice should he try to jump at you and it allows you to block fireballs if he throws one.
If the Ryu is good at his fireball timing at neutral, don’t be afraid to back off to a space where Chun can easily neutral jump or AA Ryu.
Impatience is what gets Chun killed by ryus fireballs. Just take your time and it’s much easier as long as you keep an eye toward always anti airing the fireball spammer since most fireball spamming ryus like to “mix it up” with jumpins.
If the Ryu is an actually good one that uses his dash and normals, then it’s a harder fight, but a very enjoyable one. Learn your footsies. And learn to be able to distinguish one Ryu from another.
Against jumpy ryus:
They are a pain depending on how well they can convince you that they WONT jump. From my perspective I just wait for them to jump and then AA them… Then I go back to baiting them for the AA right after wards unless I went for a mixup while they are landing.
Against jumpy players it’s your job to try to convince them to embrace their inner scrub and jump at you even after you’ve AA’d them a few times. You will know to continue to bait them if they do nothing… Just walk them into the corner SLOWLY. The corner isn’t the goal though. The pressure of walking them there is the goal. So they jump into your AA and give you a landing mixup if they are the type to fall for it, or a damaging BHK AA if they are the type to know about the crossunder mixup.
There is still a jumpy style of Ryu that beats me. It’s the guy that does one or 2 pokes and then crosses me up. And the guy that threatens low pokes then crosses me up.
I’m still learning to spot these players tendencies and ranges/timings.
I’ve only played one solid Ryu so far…, every other Ryu is some form of the styles I posted above, that are all basically scrub styles. A few that are footsies oriented that aren’t that good though. And a few I can never beat because the connection says warping jumps are the way of sf5.
But it’s the one “problem” matchup that I think I have a decent enough handle on so far.
Hope some of that helps.
How do we fight Bison? I’m completely lost in this matchup. It seems as though we basically don’t have an optimal range vs him, and we’re left to just dance around and react to any one of his numerous explosive options.
Mika:
St.lp destroys her charged drop kick on reaction. There isn’t even much timing involved.
Birdie:
AA his dive command grab with st.lk. Easy reaction.
Rashid:
His dash run kick can be punished with st.hp on block.
Karin:
Her leaping special overhead followups can all be beaten by mashed cr.lp if Chun blocks the initial special.
I just b+HP everything I can since he mainly focuses on a bunch of standing buttons which b+HP would mostly beat. He has no reversal and a shaky AA game so let the instant air legs and s.MP’s rip on him as you get close.
In my experience in the Bison MU, you need to be careful with your approach because I would argue that his buttons are in fact just as good as Chun’s if not better. He has good start up frames and I believe he has more buttons that leave him on plus (although I will need to double check that later on.
Things to consider:
- Headstomp will get beaten CLEAN by B.HK. (Ample time to react)
- Devil’s Reverse will also get beaten clean by B.HK. (Ample time to react)
- EX Headstomp seems to be best countered by a well timed neutral air throw.
- V Trigger Headstomp is best countered by a well timed jump.back air throw. Will need to be practiced so you are familiar with what part of the animation can actually be thrown consistently as he is invincible for certain frames.
- V Trigger Devil’s reverse can be easily AA’d by St. Mp.
**Alternatively, an easier option is to just Cr. Mp on reaction to all of the above to slide underneath them at neutral.
**
- Bison’s dash can go through attacks during its invincible frames, however, no part of his dash is throw invincible.
- All variations of Psycho Inferno are punishable bar EX. Cr.Mk > Mk SBK from point blank or EX LL (Mk/Lk LL from further away) are good go to options.
My overall gameplan is to just get in as quick as possible and rush him down. With no reversal, teleport or EX Psycho Crusher Bison doesn’t seem to do to well with pressure.