Diddy got second at Final Round. Banana set ups on FD are really hard to avoid. Throw bananas at your opponent dash attack into them as they trip, if they try to grab your bananas attack them, use your UpB offensively works pretty well, and keep them off the stage with great air moves. So far so good!
If you ask me Link got really nerfed. He was pretty decent in Melee, but apparently the consensus is he isn’t too good in Brawl. Which to me, actually doesn’t make sense. But oh well.
You guys might like these:
First video has DDD infinite footage, that I was talking about earlier. It’s only truely infinite at high % though. If I’m not mistaken, you can also follow that up with the dash - grab chain or f-tilt.
Second video has some sick Luigi combos (jab jab SHORYUKEN) that show he is a pretty good character.
Third match is there cause you guys might want to see what happens at the end of the set 
Yeah I guess I should’ve gave reasons why I think they suck now so here goes:
Mario: WHY does he no longer have his tornado!? And before you say “Well it’s his DAir lulz” it SUCKS and no longer has that cool launch that it had in Melee/64, Instead we have that shitty FLUDD thing tha has LAME edgeguarding possibilities but fails so hard it’s a joke…I seriously giggle when I see that thing appear on his back in a match. It may just be the game engine of being “floaty” but Mario really seems like it…I think they made him and Dr. Mario fuse cause he’s SLOWER, like everything is slower about him, Luigi looks faster in compairsson. He’s not even average anymore =/
DK: He’s a tad stronger now which is cool but he suffers from “Bowser Syndrome” now and gets anally raped in 4-Player matches cause he’s HUEG and his recovery is’nt as safe as before since he has this “falling” animation if he doesn’t hit anybody or grabs a ledge which leaves him WIDE open. Giant Punch is still great tho maybe I just suck with him now but I’m having LOTS of trouble getting inside with DK even with his reach…like everything seems to stuff his tilts…I dunno maybe Raph can enlighten me.
C.Falcon: =/ He’s fast still but people seem to be liking Gannondorf more now since his “kne” got toned down and it’s harder to follow up and combo after Raptor Boost much less Falcon Dive after it. He gets killed REALLY easier now for a middle-weight(Around 95%-100) from my experince.
The only problem I have with Falco is his recovery sucks now =/ Link seems MAD slow too and with Toon Link in Brawl it seems everybody is flocking to him.
Well I know JW used him well but after that I haven’t heard anything of significance. Bananas are evil!!!
One tactic I’ve learned to use is ledgehopping and using his explosive Up+B to blast away an opponent trying to recover. This has worked well against Wolfs especially.
His Cumshot Backpack is the stupidest move in Smash history. One thing I forgot to say in my last post is that his Cape sucks now as well. Anytime I’ve tried toreflect an attack I seem to get hit through the Cape and then reflect- and it isn’t because of bad timing either. I’ve even been jabbed out of the Cape even when I was in the middle of the move, it’s retardtastic!
After 50% it’s a guaranteed infinite. Jiggs may die at low percents, but she has a lot going for her in spacing, damage, and KO potential. And what in particular have the IC’s lost? They’ve actually been buffed from melee. They can still chain/infinite grab and desynch(although it’s a bit harder now), and their recovery, plus Nana’s AI has been significantly boosted. And even though Wolf has garbage recovery, everything else about him is great.
You mean the video I had in my other post? And Corneria wasn’t allowed in tournaments but Rainbow Cruise was.
How on Earth is Jiggs low tier? Samus and Sheik have both been nerfed but not to the level of low tier, and Donkey Kong has actually been buffed since Melee.
Yeah, I was expecting more noise for R.O.B.
Mario and Captain Falcon have definitely been nerfed. Donkey Kong has been buffed, and Falco hasn’t been nerfed, just altered.
WTF? You do know that Falco had one of the worst recoveries in Melee, right? Also, it has been improved from Melee to the point in which it’s actually kinda decent. You must have really high standards of what a “good” recovery is.
Wolf is starting to grow on me. Peach days are over i’m afraid. that is all.
ok for me dk was nerfed worse than a lot of the chars… maybe i’m playing him wrong but he has absolutly no combo potential now it seems. this throw game was raped and that’s what made him usuable in melee. he can’t even combo fastfallers effectively.
lmao at someone complaining about taking out marios tornado? tornado was a terrible move… you should be more upset about them taking out his drill dair.
As you’ve already posted elsewhere about noticing, this game is not about combos. That a character has no combos doesn’t necessarily mean that character was nerfed, only that the game has new mechanics. I don’t think DK is a bad character at all, I’ve seen him used very well a few times now.
Yeah. Captain Falcon, Mario got nerfed badly.
Fox is pretty much the same character as in melee, but I think Falco and Wolf have better normals and are better choices overall.
As for top tiers, Snake, Toon Link, Marth, Zelda, Pit, ROB really stand out to me.
Metaknight, Diddy, Pikachu, Falco, Wolf, Lucas, Luigi, are right below them.
Haven’t played much zero suit samus. I’ll give her a try.
Good to know everyone else thinks toon link is awesome. I’m glad he’s on the same level as ROB, though, since that’s my friend’s favorite character and I don’t like to have an advantage over people. How much of a difference do you think there is between ROB and Pikacku? And why isn’t Kirby in there? Thought he was pretty good or maybe on par if not better than toon link.
I’m tired of everyone saying that C.Falcon got the nerf so he’s bottom tier.
YES he is worse. But fuck you if you think he’s low tier. All it takes is timing and spacing with a healthy dose of mix-ups and rush down. I prefer to play as The Captain if I’m fighting my friends wolf, even though Dedede is my main.
Anyone else aside from me want to support a match-up based tier list?
supports
The amount of extra work he has to do now is what makes him not as potent as before. In both 64 and Melee, Falcon had some of the deadliest aerials, and, especially in 64, he could string them for deadly effect. His knee is MUCH harder to sweet-spot, and can be survived at over 100% with good DI. It’ll take a while for people to see that he’s probably not bottom, but I still believe he’s going to be placed lower-mid at best. It’s not just how he’s been nerfed, but how good a lot of the characters are as well.
Good post.
His offensive moves are tweaked to the extent where they need perfect spacing to do, unfortunately due to floatiness of the game this hinders his offense.
The got nerfed. I remember before people were saying, “Oh! It’s just different guys, it wasn’t nerfed!” Yeah it’s been nerfed, I’ve Knee’d Meta Knight at 110% near the end of the screen only to have him fly back.
His best moves seem to be his Uair (which can kill at higher %s) and his Bair. I often use the short hopped Reverse Bair to KO since the timing of the knee is stupid and retarded to do unless started early.
The floaty engine also hinders his “combos”- which are pretty much all dodge-able so the entire game pretty much relies on doing random single hits and chasing them across the screen until they reach KO range.
His throws also lead to nothing unless you try to double jump chase them with Uairs of do a fakeout Knee. BUT! At low %s his Forward throw can stun them long enough to do some interesting setups.
So a good player can make Falcon look good but Falcon still isn’t as good as his previous incarnations.
If you really want a character who is different but not nerfed completely look at Falco, he’s a perfect example of that. Falcon has definitely been nerfed though.
by this to you mean just get matchups between all chars and add them up and the one with the most goood matchups is top tier?
i’d disagree. I think if we want at tier list to reflect tournament play, you have to take into considerations matchups against specific chars, especially top tier. sheik had insane matchups against the low tiers in melee while some of the low tiers had actually decent matchups gainst the spacies if played right. this didnt matter because fox and falco had better matchups against the commonly used tournament characters including sheik. thats why they were the top 2. same with captain falcon. he had great matchups vs the low tiers but had a hardtime gainst the spacies.
Matchup determined tier list seems the best way to go, but could we really do a well educated one with EVERY MATCHUP COVERED? We would have to have each best player of said character fight other said player of best character and determine who’s weak in what fight.
This stuff is great for japan where there’s tons of readily available comp in games like GG and what not, but I mean, might be tough to get quality players for every character here right now. Plus some stuff gets overlooked until later that really affects matchups.
The other day I was playing Snake vs. a Falco and I was damn well convinced it was snakes worst matchup. I couldn’t do anything to get around the damn laser spam. I was having trouble even jumping out of it. Then I realized I could just crawl and “ALPHA CANCEL tm srk” from my crawl and beat out that shit. Then the match suddenly tilted way in my favor.
Well I think match-up based tier lists are the most accurate, and I believe thats the way we should go.