Character Ranking Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Super Smash Brothers Brawl
984

His recovery is average, not below average. You must be playing MK to much to consider TL’s recovery average even though he has a very high UpB, and a tether. Not that his recovery is good, it’s just average.

His range and priority aren’t shitty, they’re average. When compared to other characters with disjointed hitboxes, it’s somewhat below average, but when compared to everyone else it’s simply on par.

His projectiles aren’t sub-stellar, they’re just stellar. I consider SHDA to be even more annoying that SHDL. Also he’s a mid-weight, not a light-weight. Someone posted up a character weight chart a while ago, and he was somewhere in the middle.

I said a few pages back that TL’s and Wolf’s positions are interchangeable. I put all of those characters within the top tier because they do well in a variety of areas, and they have good match-ups against the majority of the cast. Then I organized them within the tier based on their match-ups against the other characters within that tier. TL and Wolf are 2nd and 3rd because they go even against everyone else within top tier. So if you want me to change the places between TL and Wold, that would be feasible.

985

Marth isn’t going to be top unfortunately. High tier yes, but he just doesn’t have the tools in some matchups and in pretty much every other he just breaks even.

He is at a clear disadvantage to Dedede and Snake and I think someone would have solid case arguing Falco and Toon Link. Some argue Metaknight, but I think that’s 5/5 just he hits you more than you hit him so it looks kinda bad till you realize that you kill him before he kills you. To add to that he doesn’t have many actually + matchups except in the lower tiers and ends up being 5/5 with most of the cast.

Dedede’s Chain Throw and awesome up-tilt make ground and air to ground attacks both really dangerous for marth and thanks to dedede’s greater resilience he tends to die after marth. SH f-air airdodge is the safest approach i’ve seen and it just doesn’t have the same threat as a chain throw or the KO’ing power of dedede’s up-tilt. Add that a quick dash throw will punish pretty much ANY attack of his on block and turn it into a chain grab and you’ve got a really bad situation for marth.

Snake just shuts down marth completely as far as I can tell. Everything on block can be punished by either f-tilt, up-tilt, or throw except for jump f-air, however, as a kick in the nuts ducking and d-tilting for snake makes any air to ground approach for marth very difficult as it will beat everyone of marth’s airs except for d-air which if not tippered can be punished on hit thanks to it’s retarded recovery. Add Marth can do very little to punish snake-dashing as oddly a lot of the time even when the dash is countered he will just slide through you unharmed, and if blocked you rarely can get any dmg off without being possibly hit by the mortar which deals a good chunk of dmg. Throws being one of marth’s only options left suffer however from the fact that’s marth’s running throw and standing throw are subpar at best. Also Snake is probably going to die after you thanks to snakes superior weight and recovery and your in for what i expect to be a 7-3 (maybe worse but that’d be extreme) matchup.

Falco SH lasers have a healthy amount of hitstun that make Marth’s approach hard. Falco’s f-smash ko’s at solid percentages and falco can rack up solid dmg with dash attack>up+smash. I don’t think this is nearly as bad as the 2 above him as camping can be work’d around whereas everyattack being potentially unsafe where your opponents are more resilient than you make the previous one’s much harder. Really Falco’s camping game is the only reason some people consider this bad.

I think Marth is still really good and his dancing blade gives him great dmg, but he’s no Snake by anymeans. I also see Wolf being significantly worse than falco, anyone got a reason for him being better? Falco has comboability, better projectiles, imo allaround better ko power thanks to being able into combo an up-smash from dash attack, and is faster. This is the first place I’ve seen rank wolf higher than falco.

986

Awaits EmblemLord to come in this thread and read the post above :lol:

987

readies flame shield

988

[quote=“Sephiroth73003, post:985, topic:38662”]

Marth vs. Snake and Marth vs. MK.QUOTE]

You severely underestimate Marth in this match-up. Marth’s movement speed makes it harder for Snake to set up his minefields and camp, and Marth can actually put up quite a good fight up close. I don’t mean in-your-face close, but within his optimal tipper range. Also, if Marth gets Snake off the stage at a low angle, Snake’s recovery gets destroyed by Marth’s spike d-air. It gets Snake before he can get high enough to grab the ledge, and if he decides to attack out of the Cypher then he’s not gonna make it. Snake might have an advantage, but it’s not that big.

As for Marth vs. Meta Knight, as long as Marth is on the stage, this is a pain for MK. While MK will be racking up damage, Marth should be using his superior range and knockback to keep the little bugger out. The match-up is basically in Marth’s favor on-stage. It’s only when MK knocks Marth off that it swings his way, because he can easily chase Marth down and keep him off with one well-placed aerial.

Emblem Lord’ll probably do a better job on these and the rest, but I thought I’d give it a shot.

989

[quote=“kof4life”]

Oh I said i thought MK marth was a 5/5 just i hear a lot of people complain about it, but i think it’s cuz marth can’t fight MK in the air and most marth’s are used to having better air to air or air to ground priority. MK i think hits marth more than marth hits him just marth hits harder and kills earlier so it’s about 5/5 .

Snakes camping game isn’t the problem the problem is that snakes ground game is stronger than marth’s and he can shut down marths air game. The horizontal range on his u-tilt is just dumb. Snake out ranges marth or is on the same range for the most part, add in that all of snakes tilts have disjointed hitboxes for some reason. Marth just doesn’t have much of an advantage at what is normally considered his optimal ground to ground range. Snake doesn’t have to camp marth, he just has that option if marth tries to play it defensively as Snake without a doubt wins that war of attrition. Snakes ground is just better, only tilt that can be readiliy punished of snakes on block is his f-tilt with an ub or throw. Snake isn’t slow and he hits like a truck. Marth can gimp his recovery but that’s really the only way your going to kill him as i’ve seen him survive f-smash tippers midscreen on final dest at around 95%. I’ve mainly been playing him on Final D which i imagine isn’t the best level to play him, but camping isn’t the problem with snake it’s his greater priority, range, weight, and dmg that makes him hard to deal with.

Also about him attacking out of his recovert below stage level it depends. He can actually attack than reset himself with a C-4 or jump away from the edge than reset himself with a C-4 so that he ends up coming at the stage from a better angle. It costs him 17% dmg to himself so it’s not the best strategy, however, it can’t KO him and if he’s at a lower percentage when you hit him off it means even if you punish him when he gets back on he won’t die and you couldn’t gimp him out of a life … i have a really good snake that lives here, i can give him a solid run when he plays anyone else but snake just has so many anti-marth tools it’s kinda humorous … gimping snake isn’t nearly as easy as pit. Again this strategy is only if you’d basically “steal” a life out of him, but it’s still there making low percentage kills hard other than getting a good spike when they are near the edge.

I see marth only having badmatchups again Dedede, snake, maybe toon link, and maybe falco, but against everyone else he pretty much just breaks even in my book. He’s good but his matchups aren’t going to add up to much above even which isn’t a top tier imo. It’s more of high tier material.

990

Sephiroth73003

  1. I can’t wait to see what EmblemLord says about your post.

  2. Let me make some comments on those Marth match-ups you posted.

vs. MK 6/4
Marth has the advantage here because he out ranges MK and can kill him at earlier percents than MK can kill him. Marth’s counter stops tornado and drill spam from MK. Marth is also has very powerful vertical control. This combined with MK’s light weight and weak control below him make him very vulnerable once he’s above Marth.

vs. DDD 5/5

vs. Falco 5/5

vs. Snake 4/6
This is Marth’s hardest match-up

991

[quote=“Sephiroth73003”]

Well, how about you explain how Marth is even against so much of the cast,then? If he’s only slightly disadvantaged against three or four of six top tiers, while being at least even with the rest, how can he be so even with most of the cast? It’s hard to see how many of those characters are even with him. At least point out examples of lower characters that break even with him. I personally don’t see how Luigi or Ike can break even with Marth (I point out these two because I play them).

992

Better aerial’s :p? Lol Ganon actually has really mean aerials with crazy priority, good hitboxes, and high power. Being able to auto-cancel actually means a hell of a lot. Stomp constantly eats through super armor and smashes as well as a lot of aerials. B-air and U-air have great range and priority as well as eat through other aerials and kill at early percents. Auto-canceled stomp out of shield is such a good OoS tactic it’s ridiculous.

993

Hell yea man. Remember when you ate through AF’s Wario with the stomp? Talk about hilarious.

994

Hhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

this thread gets funnier by the post!

995

I

will

kill

a

bitch.

But seriously, how does Marth break even with Ganon? You said he breaks even with like almost the enitre cast, so…explain plz.

Sarcasm aside…Only Snake really beats him and maybe Falco has slight advantage, but it’s probably even.

Falco can’t fight Marth up close though. Marth is stronger, faster, with more range and Falco can’t take a hit and is very easy to gimp off the stage. DDD is overrated. All of Marths moves pretty much outrange his grab range. And Dedede only hase one move that outranges Marth and that’s his f-tilt.

I would just copy and paste from SWF but its being a bitch right now so fuck that in the ass.

Or something.

Also Marth loses to Toon Link. Hell no I call it even.

Also wtf Sephiroth. You act like Marth is balls. Whenever you think Marth isn’t good I want you to take a good long look at CF and be fucking grateful that Marth was only grazed by the all mighty nerf bat.

Edit: SWF stopped being retarded.

Sweet.

Falco - Pretty much the best camper in the game. He has lasers and his shine and his forward B to run away. To get past lasers use full jumps, roll, instant double jumps, or just eat the laser when you are close and walk towards him and attack. The shine is much more tricky , but easier once you know it’s max range. If you are just outside it’s range and Falco is lasering, then you could roll in and he wouldn’t have enough time to stop lasering and shine you. If Falco has already stopped lasering and he is waiting for the shine, then you have options. You could just walk forward slowly and keep your eye on him. If you are far enough away you can shield his shine on reaction, but you have to pay attention. You could also just SH airdodge forward and then space well so that you are just outside the range of all his close range moves. This is good for you since Marth can dominate Falco at close range with good spacing. Falco’s forward b is annoying at first, but it can be punished on reaction. If he starts it up just do Dancing Blade, SH fair, or f-smash to stuff it. Just listen for the sound and look for when Falco draws himself back for the phantasm. Ideally you want to put Falco in a postion where it’s too risky to laser , this way he only has a few options, but Marth’s options > Falco’s options at close range. Also Falco is one of the easiest characters to gimp and edgehug and he can’t kill to save his life. If Falco is going to use Firebird just go out and do forward b. He will drop down a bit and then be too low to come comeback and you can just grab the edge and stay on till he dies. He has a CG combo on Marth that only works from 0 to about 30 percent. CG with d-throw till about 30% then dash attack cancelled U-smash. Marth can up b to escape at anytime. So essentially it will become a guessing game with better Falcos on whether or not you will up b. If they start waiting for the up b, just roll away or attack him. Falco has some good aeriels so be aware of them and a nasty jab combo, so DI out of that if you get caught.

…

Dammit!!

SWF crapped out on me as I was copying and pasting this.

996

Fixed.

997

You are a hater.

Why do you hate so hard?

998

Because Marth is a bitch.

999

So are you, but you don’t see us making fifty-billion hate posts about it. :rofl:

Kidding, but seriously you should lay off the Haterade.

1000

Like I said, there are lots of characters with better aerials that can auto-cancel. Being able to do a tactic that nearly every other character can do doesn’t make Ganon special in any way. If he was able to do that tactic better than everyone else then that would be saying something, but he can’t.

1001

Nah, I’m just yanking his chain for the lulz. I don’t mind that he’s a rabid senseless Marth fanboy. It’s funny to see him defend his boyfriend’s honor. :rofl:

1002

My fanboyism isn’t senseless considering the fact that I DO have knowledge of his games and his backstory. Better then people who just jump on the top/high tier bandwagon IMO.

1003

Doesn’t matter.
You still were the first to find out about Marth’s sweet spot.
You know the one. It’s on his *sword…*at the very, very tip.