If we consider the other person to being playing equally intelligently, then yes.
This is what it’s all about. Regardless of how unlikely it is that any two player exist who are EXACTLY the same, considering it is the only way to get an objective list.
LMAO!!! The method of defeating him was quite clever indeed!
Well, either your opponent is lacking and doesn’t know how to counter you (you’re good) or MK has some really good shit that’s really hard to counter (MK is good).
Seriously though, except for projectiles, spamming anything (especially gimmicks) should be counterable in someway, either through strategy or a good approach. When it’s not, that’s when the character moves up in the list.
I have a feeling that some people are forgetting why the tier list exists. It exists to further the winning aspirations of competitors and not much else. That’s why I’m glad Snake is Top of the Top right now :looney:
It’s like Kojima said: “Hey Sakurai. You can have Snake, but if he doesn’t kick major ass, I’m killing you.”
lolwut? Look at my avatar, take a good look at it. Absorb the awesomeness of the Squirtle Squad.
GO BEYOND THE TIER LIST AND KICK TYPE WEAKNESSES TO THE CURB! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE?!
On topic, Swoops makes good points. Ganon’s out of shield game is pretty good, he still needs the opening out of shield though. Jab is a bit slow to start, but the Dair is pretty helpful. He really needs to pick his spots though, and if the pressure’s on it’s hard to get one to effectively capitalize on.
To Marty: By smart play I mean using the tools he has. Objectively, he has the tools and gimmicks to advance somewhat, and doesn’t die as badly to the high/top tiers as his placement would signify. Character matchups are a factor in tier listing as well; equal weight needs to be placed on the tools themselves, the way tools interact with other characters, and how people use the tools. It’s hard to discern the last two points without players, you know, playing with the characters.
lol Man tbh I’m kind of glad Gannon sucks as predicted. If he still had his Melee physics and auto-Canceled Aerials like Brawl Samus I’d be shitting bricks right now.
Oh and Snake-like disjointed hitboxes for an extra touch.
Lots of updates to the first post.
Notes:
Within the future I can see Diddy Kong, Olimar, and Lucas moving down to mid tier, Peach and Charizard moving down to low tier, and Yoshi moving down to bottom tier.
Maybe Olimar and Peach but not the others you mentioned. ESPECIALLY not Yoshi[/Fanboy]
I can kinda see Lucas dropping and Olimar staying. Peach seems to be fine in Mid, I’m not sure about Charizard though. Yoshi is somewhat of a joke character, but he’s a mildly effective one. He’s on notice tier wise, but for now he should stay in Low.
I still say GDorf or Falcon should be bumped to Low tier; they are as effective as Yoshi and several other Low Tier characters. In fact, there’s a negligible difference between the Low and Bottom Tier characters (sans Sonic and Mario, and that’s debatable). A tier consolidation might be in order, every Low/Bottom character can be argued to go up or down within those tiers; it seems arbitrary at this point.
Actually I gave a lot of thought to simply combing the characters in low and bottom tier to make the new bottom tier. Then shifting all the other characters a tier down.
As a ganon player I can confirm he is bottomtier simply because in order to use his power to his full potential you have to have good reaction time, knowledge of ganons moves especially in relationship to your opponents, and MAKE EVERY HIT COUNT.
Ganon is 100% yomi oriented you can’t just throw out anything you want, one whiffed move gives your opponent all day to counter:sad: That being said ganon has pound for pound the best ko power of the entire cast and when utilized by a good guesser can be very scary.
No your right in making low and bottom. Definitley makes sense.
@orochiZoo: All true, but there are certain moves that can be whiffed for mind games. And you also have to be very unperdictable when using Ganon.
Should I play atleast one high/top tier character? I just realized all of my characters are low/bottom tier. And maybe like 1 in Mid 
Pick up the IC’s. I feel like I’m the only one on SRK who still mains them.
I’m a ganon main and I really don’t think he should be in the bottom (I’'m not a fanboy :p.) He’s crazy effective at higher levels of play. I’m not talking about a higher level ganon taking on a less experienced player but I’ve played equally good players and Ganon is able to fight toe to toe pretty well. He’s slow but if there’s one thing he’s good at it’s slowing down the opponents playstyle and making them play on his level. The fact that 3 of aerials are auto-cancelable also helps.
I stil don’t understand why people say that Yoshi was nerfed. The only thing I see that’s been tonned down with him is his Down Smash and his F-Air meteor. Everything else seems just fine by comparison. Pikachu needs to upped a few for the Down-Smash of DEATH.
Ganon is bottom because he simply doesn’t hold any advantages against other characters. And his aerials being auto-cancelable doesn’t mean much since most characters can do that with even better aerials, and some have lagless landings meaning you don’t have to time it perfectly.
Yoshi’s been buffed, but I think he’s still going to be in the same exact position as he was in Melee. This is because some characters got even more drastic buffs, and the characters that got nerfed are still a level above Yoshi. Also a lot of the new characters are just plain good.
Pika’s Dsmash can be died out of if you move upwards. You’ll still take most of the damage but you’ll avoid the final hit.
Quoted for emphasis.
And his priority sucks, especially for his Spring Hop which half the cast can U-Tilt/Uair to counter.
I think Capt. Falcon should be low tier instead of bottom.
Yeah, in comparison to old CF dude got mad nerfed. But I think he’s still WAY better then bottom tier though.
CF’s up/side smashes seem to hit harder and have better range then everyone elses in the bottom tier bracket (outside of Ganon) although his knee critical is horrible now, it still can critical and as a disjointed hitbox it looks like Hiis raptor boost is a decent spike move, he has way better ariel options then everyone else in his bracket, and imo a way better approach too.
He’s got horrible priority on everything though, which imo is what really makes him crappy (outside the knee crit. decrease and power) and his tilt attacks aren’t anything to write home about. I think the problem is everyone keeps playing CF the way he was in Melee which you can’t do now in Brawl. His up-smash seems to be the new knee, I see lot of players trying to setup the up-smash probably cause that has a disjointed hitbox too.
I think he should be either near the bottom of mid of the low tier list. He isn’t nearly as bad as Ivysaur, Mario or Sonic.
But that’s my opinion though.
I can see Wario being lowered a bit just due to his crap range and semi-useless bag of attacks.
I started maining tl 3-4 weeks ago and while I agree he’s definitely tops I disagree that he is #2. He has great smashes, good projectiles, huge hitboxes, vicious but difficult to pull off rar combos yes but his below average recovery, shitty range, and shitty priority keep him from being at the very top. Tl isn’t as good as I initially thought because his lack of range n priority in his sword attacks become quite clear in close range combat which hurts him enough to not make him the the second best character in the game, hell he trades with sonic most of the time and he’s not as easy a character to use as I initially thought. I would put tl under wolf at the very least maybe even at the top of high tier because tl’s lack of ranged sword attacks and sub-stellar projectile camping game hurts him versus characters with better range n spacing like marth for example, his lightweight is annoying too.
This is just my 2cents anyone else who uses tl should give their input on him as well.
Shoulder tackle is beastly!