I had Captain Falcon as the very last character in bottom tier, but everyone disagreed with me. Now that I move him a few spots up, people still disagree with me. Running this thread can be a bit irritating sometimes, I guess the tier list will never please everyones opinion.
Instead of saying that Ivysaur has the worst recovery in the game, I should say that she has “one” of the worst recovery in the game. Only reason I considered Olimar’s recovery better is because his UpB can spike opponents trying to ledge hog.
EDIT:
I think it’s better to rank PT separately, because they are literally three separate characters. Just because the game mechanics force you to switch between pokemon while playing PT, doesn’t automatically make them a singular character. Say if Squirtle has a good match-up against character X, but Charizard and Ivysaur suck horribly against character X. Does it make any sense to say that PT as a whole does well against character X when only squirtle does?
So you’re judging a character’s quality by how much they get played on Wi-Fi? Wow. In that case, Ike must be the best character in the game, with Sonic being a close second…
Besides, you really should read what someone says before you decide to put words in their mouth. I didn’t say the matchup was disadvantageous for Snake. Snake doesn’t HAVE any disadvantageous matchups. That matchup is against Samus, but it’s less of a free victory for Snake than many of his other matchups.
Learn to read, and then come talk to me.
If PT trainer played properly beats character X then yes, it does make sense. And if PT played properly loses then it makes sense to say PT is worse, even if one pokemon does ok.
You don’t seem to even understand the point of a tier list.
Alright then.
By that logic, Zelda and Sheik should be ranked as one character as well. Same deal with Samus and Zero Suit Samus. They’re the same marker on the character select screen, so they must be the same character.
Let’s all change our opinions to match this living, breathing compendium of ultimate knowledge. Praise his glory now and forever.
That sentence didn’t even make sense. So you’re saying that if PT wins he has a good match-up, but if he loses he has a bad match-up? I think you need to word that better. Well if you want PT to be ranked as a whole, how will we calculate match-ups? So against one particular character the match-ups for the three pokemon are squirtle with a 8/2, charizard with a 4/6, and Ivysaur with a 3/7. Do you want us to find the average between the three? I think that would skew the match-ups a bit to much.
characters you have too low. sonic, fox, ivysaur (whom i personally think is fucking dope, how the fuck you gonna put him in bottom tier for a bad recovery… hes fucking beast if you space right and on low ceiling stages his uair and usmash is ridic. i seriously cant even fathom how you could have ivysaur so low)
characters too high. samus (yes i previously said she was underated… but that was because people were saying she was the worst in the game but now shes too high.)
jigglypuff.
to me it seems very apparent that the three last characters should read as yoshi, falcon, gannon in w/e order.
If you read the last two pages I listed a lot of problems that Ivysaur had that wasn’t just recovery. Sonic also deserves to be in bottom tier simply because his attacks in general are just piss poor, only real advantage he has is movement speed. Fox’s match-ups are mostly fair even against the lower tiers so I feel he deserves to be in mid tier. Even though Samus has been severely nerfed, she’s still somewhat usable because Brawl’s engine caters more towards her play style. Brawl is more about camping and spacing your opponent which is what she’s designed to do, main problem is her complete lack of KO power. I could see jigglypuff being moved down, and white shadow made some convincing arguments for why Yoshi is better than the rest of the bottom tier characters.
I moved Zelda down because of her poor approach. She may have a lot of KO moves but none of that matters when she can’t move in on her opponent reliably.
I’m sorry that you’ve gotten your pretend panties in a bunch due to your own contradictions, but you’re honestly going to tell me that what you meant by Samus is being “one of Snake’s worst matchups” wasn’t to point that Samus had an advantage over him?
Bullshit.
What the hell is point of even saying that he even implying that he has other “bad” matchups if you then go on to say that he “doesn’t HAVE any disadvantageous matchups”? “Free victories”? Please, no character in this entire game has “free victories” over another outside of maybe Wario against Sonic.
If you honestly believe that Snake (or any other character) has “free victories” at all (already), then why even bother with such a broken game?
The only other reason I can think of the aforementioned delusion you have about Samus being worth a damn in the game, especially when you try project yet another front saying that you didn’t mention to illustrate that Samus can actually do something against your own supposed God Tier character. Just that Snake doesn’t beast you for free because you’re too lazy to attempt to work around his bullshit with a character you obviously love the crap out of.
Sigh. I still don’t understand you. I mean, I’ve said time and again it’s not like she’s complete crap, but it’s that she’s basically the new Zelda: Why play her when you can just play a better version of her a.k.a. Zero Suit Samus? ZSS basically seemed like the new Shiek from the get go, especially when Brawl was still in development, and that she continues to seem to be.
Anyway, I also want to say that you yourself shouldn’t be acting so high and mighty as if Wi-Fi is completely useless for judging things.
Can you honestly say that you too aren’t judging things off of Wi-Fi? Because last I checked, neither you nor anyone else in this entire fucking thread have posted any videos of them playing in tournaments, offline or otherwise. I think the closest that we’ve had yet was UltraDavid’s recent report.
So, please do tell me what exactly your superior sort to Wi-Fi is since I know you’ve been playing on Wi-Fi and continue to play on Wi-Fi.
P.S. And don’t be hypocritical about putting words in other people’s mouths and then going saying that I said that I might as well say Ike is the best based on Wi-Fi alone. P
Also, please point out to me where I said that my experiences with her were solely limited to Wi-Fi. I merely stated that she doesn’t get used on Wi-Fi a lot, since most people like to win. While not by any means a definitive measure of a character’s effectiveness, this is SRK and we tier whore like anyone else, with most of the people I see playing people that would otherwise be “Top Tier” or “High Tier” and it seems rather contradictory that Samus can give some nebulous top tier and high tier characters–examples please?–“trouble” when she’s barely even Mid Tier herself on the current “official” list.
Perhaps you need to learn to read better as well.
This thread is such bullshit. Why do even bother with this petty bickering? Are we that bored?
If you’re going to make personal insults about me, then I have nothing to say to you. What you said in your previous post was one hundred percent correct, and you won the argument and successfully proved me wrong, but it’s really too bad you had to make an argument about a video game into a barrage of personal attacks.
I don’t see why this is hard. If Pokemon Trainer beats another character he is better than that character, and if he loses he is worse.
Samus/ZSS is different because the transformation is very slow and ZSS is almost strictly better. The ability to switch mid-match is pretty irrelevant and realistically you’ll be playing one or the other the entire time. If the transformation made a big difference in-match then it would make sense to rank them as one character or to rank them based as which you started as, assuming you could still switch in-game at some point.
Based on who wins the match-up.
Now it might make a little sense to rank PT based on which Pokemon you start as, but even that should be done factoring in that you can rotate when you get a chance. Say you start as Ivysaur against someone Ivysaur is bad against. Then you need to figure out how much of an impact that makes and how hard it is to switch to the better matchup.
By ranking the three separately what you are doing is ranking a character based on the assumption they won’t use one of their most important special moves. Which is just stupid. And if you stick with one Pokemon the entire match they get tired, which lowers their damage. That’s choosing to play like an idiot.
What’s funny is that I seriously think I’m gonna switch to ZSS. I have such a higher success rate with her, and to be honest, Samus’s armored form always struck me as less than ideal for combat against the likes of Fox McCloud and Captain Falcon.
I realize that, which is why I said it might make sense to rank PT based on who he starts with. But this ranking assumes that not only do you start with one but you stick with that one the entire time.
