Looks pretty good. Why is Mario ranked so high on smashboards? Is there something we haven’t figured out yet?
SWF doesn’t even have an official tier list yet. That tier list discussion thread is basically everyone posting their own versions of the tier list. I wouldn’t take them seriously since it isn’t uncommon to see people place Captain Falcon in top tier and have Snake in bottom tier, and be completely serious about it.
Ahh I see. I won’t take them seriously if they even think of pulling shenanigans like that.
I’d really like to see if the Backroom is talking about tiers and whether they have a list prepared.
Several members of the SBR have openly admitted that a thread labeled “Tier List Discussion” is currently the most popular thread on SBR. They’ve also decided to let the rest of SWF have a voice in the tier list discussion with a weekly character update. This means that each week they open a thread to discuss a certain characters ranking on the tier list.
I think we have the top tier setup pretty well in terms of order and who deserves to be in there. I think we have the bottom tier down in terms of who needs to be their, but we have to work on the order. I lowered some characters down from the high tier to mid tier, and raised some characters from the low tier to mid tier. I felt that the mid tier was simply too small, and that the high tier was too big. We still need to do a lot of work on the high, mid, and low tier in terms of who needs to be in there and the order, but I feel we have the general placings down somewhat. Here’s what I got so far as revisions go, please critique heavily if need be. Post your own versions of the tier list, and make sure to back up your statements.
Top:
Snake
Toon Link
Wolf
Marth
Falco
Metaknight
High:
Pit
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Diddy Kong
Olimar
Lucas
Mid:
Zelda
Fox
Luigi
Kirby
Ike
Sheik
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ness
Squirtle
Peach
Charizard
Samus
Low:
Jigglypuff
Wario
Link
Bowser
Yoshi
Bottom:
Ganondorf
Sonic
Mario
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur
Mid-tier acquired.
Mission complete.
Here are a few notes on why I have the top tier in the order they are in. First of all I placed all six of them in top tier because they have good advantages against the majority of the cast. As for the actual order within the top tier, I based it on the match-ups they have amongst themselves. MK is sixth because he is at a disadvantage to Marth and Snake. Falco is fifth because he has a disadvantage to Snake. Marth is fourth because he is at a disadvantage to Snake but has an advantage against MK. TL and Wolf are third and second because they go even with everyone in the top tier. Snake is number one because he has an advantage against Marth, Falco, and MK.
The order for high, mid, low, and bottom tier are still a bit iffy though. I would really like some suggestions for the order of the characters in those tiers, but make sure to back up your statements.
I consider Samus straight mid tier because she gives a number of high and top tier characters hard times. I know that she’s one of Snake’s worst matchups. Her zair and missile spam can put a serious damper on his game, and the fact that Samus’s d-tilt detonates mines is equally annoying for him.
God.
Samus’s d-tilt is fucking amazing. Why don’t I use it more often?
What puts Pit in High tier as opposed to Top? I know he has some harder matchups within the top tier, but what specifically are his problems?
Pits at a disadvantage against Snake and Marth. He goes even against TL and MK. From what I’ve heard he could possibly also be at a disadvantage against Wolf and Falco, but I’m not to sure about it. So I don’t think a character with disadvantages against the majority of the top tier should be top tier as well, thats why I put him on the upper end of the high tier.
That’s my question. What specifically puts him at a disadvantage?
I’m not to knowledgeable on Pit, but according to Pit mains those are some of their harder match-ups. Just check on SWF and they generally agree that Pit is at a disadvantage. As far as I can guess it’s because all those characters beat him at close range, and their approach can counter arrow spam.
the most obvious reason that the match is withing Snake’s favor vs Pit that i see, is that Pit has a much harder time effectively KO’ing Snake, whereas Snake doesn’t need to work as hard to kill Pit. His weight along with DI’ing and the auto guard on his Up B allow him to recover from attacks one would think would finish him off.
Now I know that you’re delusional seeing as how you say that detonating mines, which most people can do safely, is an “advantage” over Snake. I also don’t see how Zair spam and missile spam are great deterrent when Snake can crawl and can just throw grenades over missiles, which pack more power than her missiles do now.
Samus lacks power, so I don’t see why you would say she is one of Snake’s worst match-ups when he’s probably one of the people who hits the hardest (per average damage of his hits) for the relative speed.
I also don’t see how you can claim that Samus does well against a number of other supposedly high and top tier when most of the characters either have better projectiles than her or reflectors or both.
I still maintain that all Samus has is above average aerials with minimal landing lag, but she got robbed of pretty much everything else. This is somewhat maintained by the fact that no one ever seems to play around with Samus on Wi-Fi and my own experiences with her.
And Ivysaur is dead last now? The fuck? There is NO WAY she is lower than Captain Falcon. NO WAY. At least she can kill people outside of some gimmick move that got nerfed so hord. I would at least switch those two, but then again I don’t really care since I’ll end up playing mostly Ivysaur if I end up playing Pokemon Trainer.
But, hey, this is why I’ve been trying to not post in this thread often.
Well Ivysaur does have a powerful up smash, while Captin Falcon has the unusable Falcon Punch…
As I said before, we need to do more discussion on the actual order of the characters within the tiers. I believe I covered the top tier pretty well, but every other tier is a bit iffy. So don’t get offended that insert character here is in whatever ranking. In defense for my case I do believe that Ivysaur is bottom tier, but I’m not sure about the bottom of bottom tier. Her camping is weak since razor leaf is a below average projectile. Approach is weak since she just doesn’t have many options to chase someone. Edgeguarding is weak since she’s more at a risk then her opponent while jumping off the stage. Has the downright worse recovery in the game. Aerial game is severely lacking, and ground game is decent at most. Attacks have lots of lag making her easily punishable. Worst of all she seemingly has no advantageous match-ups. Only saving grace Ivysaur has is range and KO power, but both of those don’t mean much when her approach is so weak that she’ll barely ever get in range to do those attacks, and even if she does she’s still at risk for being punished because of her lag.
I wasn’t even talking about their strongest moves. I was talking about the fact that his knee got nerfed and since Falcon Punch is relatively unusuable, the only reliable KO move he has is Side Smash.
Too back he sucks at building up damage like Ivysaur does, and too back he only has one really predictable KO move while Ivysaur has at least 3 or 4.
First off, I’m not offended by fictional rankings; there are just some I find more stupid than others.
Secondly, I don’t see why you keeping saying she has the worst recovery when Olimar has the worst. She has the second worst (at the worst). Unlike Olimar, she has a constant projectile to get edgeguarders away from the edge in some cases, which isn’t as situational as a Olimar needing a Purple Pikmin to clear away people, which ends up shortening his tether anyway. Speaking of tethers, Ivysaur’s tether is easily the tied for the longest in the game, tied with Zamus’s Plamsa Whip and it comes out nigh instanteously, so she should eventually be a bit more difficult to edgeguard consistently than Olimar.
Next, I can’t really speak about anything else since I don’t feel that anything else is obvious outside of the fact that Captain Falcon lacks power and pretty much everything else while everyone in the current bottom tier has at least something else. Captain Falcon just sucks, and I keeping for getting that you keep flipping-flopping back and forth about whether the other tiers are organized yet. :rolleyes:
Lastly, I still don’t see how discussion is going to accomplish anything without videos.
Actually, I can’t fathom why Olimar is so high up with THE most abysmal recovery in the history of Smash. I know on the stage he’s a beast…but it’s not incredibly hard to take him off and at that point he’s done.
And yeah, I’d say Ivysaur above Falcon as well. Falcon is just…yeah.
Ivysaur isn’t even a character. Ranking the 3 Pokemon separately is fail. Transforming between the 3 is quick and the game mechanics actively encourage you to do it.
Ranking Ivysaur is like ranking “Fox using only lasers” or “Toon Link without the block button.” What’s the point? Fox has more than just lasers, Toon Link can block and Ivysaur is only 1/3 of the actual selectable character.
Ivysaur’s poor recovery doesn’t matter all that much. When you get to higher percents switch out, or use Ivysaur more on edgeless stages. You don’t have to use Ivysaur at all if you are worried about the recovery.
It’s a very dumb way of thinking about the characters.
The right way to rank is to rank the actual character, Pokemon Trainer, vs how well he does vs. other characters assuming you aren’t a retard and use all three pokemon appropriately.