I haven’t much looked at the Ice Climbers. What’s changed about them from Melee?
I’m interested in pushing DK up a little higher in the tiers, but I don’t have a lot of high-tier character opponents to play against. Would anyone be interested in helping me out with this? In particular I could use some games vs. Snake, Falco, MK, IC, Marth, ROB. Anyone interested hit me up via PM or AIM me at BrahmaDDT.
In short they received a lot of buffs with basically no nerfs. Let me quote myself from the first post.
he has been nerfed since melee. his smashes were all nerfed slightly. all 3 of them were insane in melee. in brawl his dsmash is wack…
Are you referring to the IC’s? If so, then what in the hell are you talking about? Sure all three of them got nerfed slightly in range but they’re far from bad in any way. And how could their Dsmash, an attack that does nearly 40 percent uncharged be wack? Fsmash and Usmash are both still amazingly good kill moves.
I think he was talking about Marth.
Then he would be wrong.
The only thing they nerfed about his F-smash was range. It’s still strong and fast with alot of knockback. His other two smashes got BETTER.
Although I think he was talking about DK.
Marthy Kong?
YOU BEST BE JOKING NIGGA
Sure his shoulder tackle has Super Armor on start-up but it’s NOWHERE near as safe as you think unless you hit them. Even Gannondorf’s slow ass can nail you easily afterwards…IIRC NONE of Wario’s smashes are safe/uselful outside of his Shoulder Tackle and that’s on thin ice. Down Smash has some uses but tit’s pretty shitty too. Up Smash is okay cause it can launch people RIGHT ABOVE Wario for a Uair KO.
Not to mention his god awful range, and he really doesn’t have the priority to back that up like jiggs in melee. Dsmash is just horrible, it has its uses but why they didn’t give it multiple hits I’ll never know. Shoulder is his only good smash (great really, tackle is awesome). Tilts are good in priority and useful in a sense, but are kinda slow for tilts. He also doesn’t have a great time killing. Uair and fsmash are the best ones I can think of, and setups for uair are limited. I’ve started using wario and I like him, but he’s certainly not deserving of a high tier spot.
Here’s some revisions to the tier list. I haven’t updated the first post yet since I want to hear everyones thoughts first.
Top:
Snake
Toon Link
Falco
Wolf
Marth
Metaknight
High:
Pit
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Diddy Kong
Olimar
Zelda
Lucas
Fox
Luigi
Mid:
Kirby
Sheik
Ike
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ness
Squirtle
Peach
Charizard
Low:
Samus
Jigglypuff
Wario
Link
Bowser
Yoshi
Bottom:
Mario
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur
Gannondorf
I’m starting to see Mario maybe being moved up to low tier. I’ve messed around with him a bit to try to see if my Melee main still has some hope, and there might be.
The cape can still mess with people’s approaches and recoveries. Now, I’m not talking completely gimping recoveries and getting low % kills, but at least helps in racking up some good damage on characters when they’re off the ledge. If you play a good spacing game using the fireballs and aerials, he can put together some good pressure.
He’s definitely worse than he used to be in both of the previous games, but his priority withing his rather short reach is pretty good. He can still mix it up, just not as well as he used to.
I think he can move above C. Falcon at least. Maybe right below Bowser.
Actually, I’ll go ahead and take a crack at some of Mario’s match-ups:
Snake: 6-4 (6.5-3.5?) Snake. Snake’s advantages hold true in this match, but not quite as hard as against some others. Mario’s a smaller target for Snake’s explosives, and, if careful, can be irritating in close range because of the quick start-up of his aerials and d-smash. His cape can mess with the momentum of the Cypher,too, and he can spike Snake out of it if he sets it up.
Toon Link: 8-2 Toon Link. The little bastard works Mario over in the plumber’s prime range. His attacks beat out Mario’s quite easily. Mario’s only hope is some very smart cape use against the bugger’s camping, and to really hammer him every time he’s off the ledge. Really bad match for Mario.
Falco: 7-3 Falco. The damn bird still destroys poor Mario quite easily, but Mario has a couple of things he can do. With careful use of aerials and fireballs, Mario can build up some good damage, then once Falco’s off the stage, fireballs, capes and chasing aerials can mess him up.
Wolf: 7-3 Wolf. Quite bad for Mario. Wolf can box him out and render a lot of his attacks useless. The blaster has to be caped smartly, then once the camping is taken care of Mario has to space himself very carefully and try to lure Wolf in. Very tough. The up-side is that Mario can really mess up Wolf’s recover with some careful caping and edge-hogging.
Marth: 6-4 Marth. Mario’s fireballs and cape give him some breathing room, but not much. Marth’s range can really fuck Mario over. However, once Marth’s off the stage, Mario’s pressure can really mess with his recovery, or at least rack up some extra damage and keep peppering him, eventually KOing him.
Meta Knight:8-2 MK. Just not a joy match for Mario. Meta Knight boxes him out in close-range, and keeps him out pretty effectively. Even if Mario knocks the bugger off the stage, gliding and that ridiculous up-b keep edge-gaurding chances really slim.
Pit: 7-3 Pit. Same as MK, but to a lesser extent. Pit has the added advantage of camping, though.
I’ll do some more later. It’s getting kinda late…
I still feel G&W is placed too low. G&W players have been placing high in tournaments since the game came out. His only real weakness is his weight which is negligible due to how easily he can kill
Pikachu is way too high.
DK is way too low.
I’m really confused about Pika, though. What about him could possibly place him that high?
Well I mostly meant he was safe as far as general approach, his air game is amazing.
Check out this video of a top Wario. Dude’s amazing: [media=youtube]G1C-M1zF_zQ[/media]
I moved the places of Pika, G&W, Mario, DK on that list I posted above.
Snake is getting much love in tournies (as expected ) but I’m surprised Toon Link isn’t. I thought top player would be making good use of his “freedoms” but I guess only DieSupaFly is the only player devoted to him it seems.
Top of the low tier? Ho shit, Samus is movin’ on up! Come on, let’s see her mid-tier!
So does anyone have any major disagreements with the way I reorganized the tier list? Here it is again if you didn’t see it.
Top:
Snake
Toon Link
Falco
Wolf
Marth
Metaknight
High:
Pit
King Dedede
R.O.B.
Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Zero Suit Samus
Diddy Kong
Olimar
Lucas
Mid:
Zelda
Fox
Luigi
Kirby
Sheik
Ike
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ness
Squirtle
Peach
Charizard
Samus
Low:
Jigglypuff
Wario
Link
Bowser
Yoshi
Bottom:
Mario
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Ivysaur
Gannondorf