Why should Ivysaur be moved up? What good matches does she have? What advantageous put her over the other characters?
She’s got decent range, attacks with large hitboxes, and some nice damage output, but I still think she’s bottom-tier material given how slowly she moves and how pitiful her recovery is.
She’s better than Yoshi at the very least.
…Touche.
Yoshi’s almost seemed like a joke character to me since the original Smash as it is though. At least Jigglypuff had the decency to kick a few people’s asses in Melee and 64…
I actually thought Ivy would be at least high low or low mid for the reasons already listed by lobelia. She def has potental. And while we are on the supject of bottom tier, what the hell makes Mario bottom tier?
Tbh I don’t know. He doesn’t have the severe flaws that other bottom tiers like Sonic and Ganondorf have.
I think hes great, he can spam projectiles and bair, has good recovery, has a reflector, and people are saying F.L.U.D.D. has mad potental.
Yeah, his recovery’s alright, but a lot of folks can gimp Mario’s recovery due to how linear it is. One of the best players in my state is a Mario player, and the only time I’ve been able to kill him at all is by gimping his recovery, something Samus does a bit too well.
You have two different viewpoints when it comes to Mario: You’re either with the side that thinks FLUDD is good, and you have the side that thinks FLUDD sucks. Which one is right, I don’t know.
For being the Ryu of Smash, Mario is surprisingly not easy to get good with. You have to set up your kills with him and he doesn’t have anything broken/cheap/etc. (like Meta Knight’s Tornado or Snake’s AAA/ftilt/bair)
Then again, you have the people who think Falco/Wolf are top and the people who think they are only slightly above Fox.
Main reason I kept Ivysaur and Mario within bottom tier is because as far as I can tell they don’t have much in the way of advantageous match-ups. Ivysaur has quite a few glaring flaws like she can’t camp or approach well(razor leaf is a fairly below average projectile), she’s very laggy and punishable after a lot of her attacks, and has the worst recovery in the game. Mario on the other had doesn’t have huge flaws, he just doesn’t have anything to put him above the other characters.
So really, it would be nice for people to post up the characters match-ups. I would like to see which ones they actually have an advantage in.
In 64 he was good, but just Mid Tier, in Melee he sucked but some players like Fumi pushed his Double Jump Canceling to its offensive limits making him worthwhile for anyone with patience and commitment to play him (not me).
In Brawl they improved him somewhat but these improvements were simply a necessity for him to not suck, which he did anyway thanks to the sub-par to awful priority on 90% of his attacks, esp. Spring Hop which every top tier can beat out with a timed Uair, Up Smash, or Utilt.
In regards to Mario- His F.L.U.U.D sucks, people just try to force uses for it and deem it reliable, but in actuality they are merely just trying to maximize the use of an ineffective move. I find that admirable.
A decent Mario can definitely pull wins with gimping and mixing it up but has to work soooo much harder, much harder than Mario’s previous (and actually average) incarnations.
Mario is definitely below average in this game, not mid.
Mister Game & Watch!
where can I get high lv of this dude?
True, true. As a Mario player for the first two Smash games, I was really disappointed in him here. His f-smash is much harder to sweet-spot and doesn’t hit as hard, and the down smash is slower than before. The u-smash is slightly improved, but not my that much. He just doesn’t have the tools to put him above characters that can just box him out and keep him out of his element. His cape doesn’t do as much anymore, thanks to the ease of recovery in Brawl. Speaking of, his is still not that great. Not as bad as Melee, but still not to the level of a lot of characters in Brawl.
Try outside the power plant. Don’t forget to stock up on ultra balls!
Mario’s Cape is his best special move. I think it can gimp recoveries, which makes it some what useful. He’s just one of the characters that got an unnecessary nerfs in an attempt to balance the game.
I’m still thinking Olimar’s not getting much respect.
Against Lucas: Olimar has a decent amount of counters against Lucas. PK Fire? Throw a Pikmin, especially a Red. Extended Grab? Olimar’s is much longer and doesn’t lag as badly on a whiff. PK Thunder edgeguard? Throw a Pikmin, again. Tether? Olimar with 6 Pikmin beats Lucas’s tether. Also, Pikmin can’t be PSI Magnet’d, which eliminates one of Lucas’s primary forms of projectile defense, and the baseball bat has enough lag after hit to attach another Pikmin to him. Olimar’s aerial game is also better than Lucas’s (Uair, fair, and bair especially). 6-4 or 7-3 to Olimar I think.
IC’s 5-5 I’ll agree with.
Game and Watch: This is plain silly. Usmash on G&W kills at crazy low % (65% uncharged with a purple), Bucket can’t catch Pikmin, and it’s just too easy to rack up damage with Pik throws and grabs. 7-3, MAYBE 6-4.
Yea I agree that Olimar is pretty underrated. The only reason why I’m not maining him is because he can be killed at ridiculously low percents and his tether recovery can be gimped. Olimar is perfect for punishing mistakes, Opponent misses a grab? F.smash! Someone coming from above? Up smash!
You take that back. :mad: As far as “Joke” chars are concercned it goes like this:
SSB:
-Jigglypuff
SSBM:
-Pichu
-Mr. Game and Watch
I don’t think…Brawl has any “Joke” chars per-se.
R.O.B. is, in a way, a joke character. Smash’s joke characters are really more like random, ‘where the hell did that come from?’ characters, like Mr. Game and Watch, Jigglypuff, the Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Pichu.
I don’t see why people are complaining about Olimar. We already have him in high tier, so whats the problem? Only things holding him back are bad recovery, and some hideously bad match-ups.