Character Ranking Discussion

Found this on the Smash Forums. The Op should put it in the first post. It’s a work in progress so fix it up as needed.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/IvanEvaPhoto/BrawlMatch-upTable-1.jpg

I already planned on making a character match-up chart. I just need more people to post match-ups and see how everything lays out.

I already saw that post on SWF. How can I re-edit that chart?

Well, since it’s a pic any photo editing software will work ie. corel painter, photoshop, and so on. I don’t know if you have any of those, though. Windows Painter may even work too but I think it’ll be easier in photoshop unless you want to type everything again in another program.

The Yoshi section is hella wrong, but that’s no surprise he scores a Fair on all those characters because no one really uses him competitively.

His bad matchups are: Wolf, Snake, Pit, G&W, Diddy Kong, Pikachu, Lucario, Meta Knight

His good matchups are: King Dedede, Gannondorf, Captain Olimar (yay!)

Marth vs Sheik isn’t in her favor at all.

All she has is f-tilt combos which work on everyone, but beyond that what does she have?

Her projectile is good, but not great.

I say it’s even.

Marth is stronger, with more knockback, more options, more range, and more kill moves and he can actually kill.

Sheik has better damage racking and slightly better speed.

But her damage racking is what keeps her in high tier.

See you have proven my point sir thanks. in your post you mention that sheik has an edge on characters people consider to be “top” characters. I’m so sorry but I fail to see where the characters you mentioned before Zelda snake and pit are top :). Nevertheless I like your devotion to sheik and well hope you do well for the tournaments. From your comments I can glimpse that many of the characters you fight with sheik and your friend are the ones mentioned above. Please Find a good marth , olimar, IC and MK and you will see the results.

PS: Good one about ganon I really never saw him beating any top player. You seem like an experienced player you just have to move on, adapt my friend.

**Quote : Emblem Lord

Marth vs Sheik isn’t in her favor at all.

All she has is f-tilt combos which work on everyone, but beyond that what does she have?

Her projectile is good, but not great.

I say it’s even.

Marth is stronger, with more knockback, more options, more range, and more kill moves and he can actually kill.

Sheik has better damage racking and slightly better speed.

But her damage racking is what keeps her in high tier.**

I have to agree with you here but the reason marth beats her relays on that he can acuatlly kill and eventually will get you of the stage more often. Picture this situation where sheik is of the stage. If she is far enough you just simply grab the edge and here options are limited. She can try to hit you or get to the stage which will get her killed. VS if marth is off the stage he will probably get back unless he really messed up. I was in fact testing a few things with sheik with my friends we all are top players in pur community and there is one guy who really has a great sheik. and norfair and corneria were his best stages. But like I said before she cant beat the really top characters. But I’ll give you one she has the Advantage over Marth on Norfair using theter. So basically even if they beat each other marth will find killing her easier wich will give presure and to the shiek player and now that time is really a factor on the game well sheik has the advantage. And marth for me is the bottom top so imagine the rest vs shiek. She is not top period. but a good character indeed. Sadly she wont win big tournaments :frowning: Snake has more chance

Dear 9 pot, you seem to keep misreading my posts. You posted what characters give her problems and I responded. I never said those character which you mentioned were top tier. Please stop putting words into my post.

Second, I do not use Sheik. I do not play her rather than against her. I use Marth, plus I am experimenting against Sheik using different characters. Another resident player uses Olimar against the said Sheik player and I can see how the matchup stacks up.

Third dont use that condescending tone on me please. It’s immature and it shows everytime you post.

============

Now, I got today with the Sheik player and asked his opinion on several matchups.

First Olimar. He finds the match on the frustrating side because of Olimar’s natural camping. Zoning Olimar has to be done with extreme precision and foresight since he has too many safe options compared to Sheik’s ftilt. The only thing against Olimar in this matchup would be his easily edgeguardable recovery.

He puts it as Olimar having advantage over Sheik.

Against Marth he says is even and the tether on ledge giving her a slight advantage. On walk-off stages Marth should have the advantage due to Knockback.

Now refining my position I believe that Sheik is not top but amongst the High Tiers (Like I had originally stated in that she shouldnt be placed lower than high tier).

I was thinking of just doing a spreadsheet on Microsoft Excel, and linking it to the first page. But then again, I have no idea how to upload something like that to the internet.

Wow, I can’t see how I could lose with Toon Link, besides another toon link that is. He’s way too good. Granted I do know most of the things that help his game like fast arrow and no lag bomb but either way.

Toon Link doesn’t have a whole lot of good or bad match-ups, mostly fair.

EDIT:

Don’t try to projectile spam someone who can do it better than you. Pit’s arrows come out faster than any of TL’s projectiles, plus he can reflect anything you throw at him.

Yea, but add good dodging and jd’ng, throwing bombs, arrows, and boomarangs and his matchups get a really good turnout. I do have to admit it probably takes constant item usage to make him really beastly. I played against pit without using anything else besides the boomerang and was getting beat fairly well because pit’s arrows come out faster and have very little delay. Add bombs and arrows and I got the advantage immediately. I’m going to try and play online tomorrow and see if there’s anyone good on.

Here’s my guess as to what the tiers are based on whats currently known about the game. Some of these characters can possibly be moved a tier up or down, but I think they’re generally close to where they need to be. Discuss

Top:

Marth
Pit
Metaknight
Falco
Snake
Ice Climbers

High:

Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Diddy Kong
Zelda
King Dedede
Wolf
Toon Link
R.O.B.
Olimar
Lucas

Mid:

Samus
Kirby
Pikachu
Game & Watch
Luigi
Sheik
Squirtle
Charizard
Ike
Peach
Lucario
Ness
Wario
Jigglypuff

Low:

Donkey Kong
Link
Ivysaur
Bowser

Bottom:

Mario
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Sonic
Captain Falcon

I’m trying to not get into the whole tier thing, but I’m curious as to why you think Samus is nearly that high.

She doesn’t seem like she can KO at all in this game, at least with her projectiles, and Zair only goes far (pun intended).

Other than that, I don’t really have any other comments other than doubting that Ganondorf is that low even though he probably is the lowest of all of the Triforce characters and wondering why Ivysaur keeps getting shat if Olimar usually enjoys a place at the top.

Donkey Kong, why must everyone hate you so.

aw well, your entitled to your opinion in the end.

Samus’s projectiles may not do much in the way of KO’ing, but they are still very good camping tools, especially since camping is so much more effective in Brawl. Also her Fsmash, Dsmash, Dtilt, Bair, and Dair are decent moves to KO with.

I put Ganondorf in bottom tiers simply because I can’t think of many match-ups where he actually does well in. He doesn’t even have that many even match-ups, most of them are just bad.

Olimar and Ivysaur both have shitty recovery, but Olimar has a lot more going for him that let people overlook it, while Ivysaur doesn’t.

You do realize that I actually want people to dispute my tier list, so we can get some more productive debates going.

I personally think, Ivysaur needs to be higher same with pikachu, pikachu can cancel his up b into almost for the most insane mix up ever.

small example of why pikachu is high tier, [media=youtube]T1zAVuGVc2M[/media]
all you have to do is touch the ground with the last part of quick attack, and do either a jump or another quick attack, you can also directly cancel it into downair.

What are Pikachu’s match-ups? And to me, Pikachu just doesn’t seem to be on the same level as all the other characters in high tier.

I understand. I was just taking a break from yardwork, so i gave that quick response, ill write a more detailed one when im done for the day, which wont be for a while unfortunately.

eddymasta can vouch for mario not being shit tier, he plays him very well, so i know he can give everyone some info about everyones favorite plumber

Ganon is that bad? It seems to me like he dies to the good projectile characters but does ok against the rest. He has a couple good zoning attacks and the usual block/hit mixups don’t work as well against him because of his command grab.

Well, try to get eddymasta to post in here then.

So what match-ups does he do well in?