I think he does fairly well with just about anyone. So far I’ve been up against a lot of the characters and didn’t take me too long to get used to them and have the advantage. Maybe Pit has a good matchup but once I started using projectiles more I had the advantage again. Looks like Toon Link is gonna be my main character.
Seems like TL doesn’t really have any bad match-ups and only has a handful that he goes even in.
Pretty much SS tier 
What, no posts today? How sad.
Who would you say his even matchups are? I know TL is good but I still don’t see why everyone views him as god tier. Lots of characters are just as good.
Really, this game seems pretty well balanced to me. There’s a lot of characters that can compete and only a few you’d have to be crazy to use in a tournament.
Ummmm.
No. There are not alot of characters that can compete. Not at all.
When you start camping really well, you will find that 90% of the cast becomes useless.
TL is just solid. Strong, fast he can actually combo, good knockback on his smashes. Disjointed hitboxes on his attacks, good aerials, beastly projectile game, good recovery.
He is just…really really good.
I don’t know what else to tell you. He is good.
His even match-ups are pretty much Marth, Snake, maybe Falco and that’s it I think. The rest he has advantage on IMO
IC’s have an even match-up against him :razzy:
Here are my opinions on Olimar. I’m sure I’m missing plenty of stuff, so feel free to comment
Bowser - Good
Captain Falcon - Fair
Charizard - Good
Diddy Kong - Good
Donkey Kong - Great
Falco - Fair
Fox - Bad (just too damn fast, plus his uair rapes poor light olimar)
Game & Watch - Good
Ganondorf - Good
Ice Climbers - Fair
Ike - Fair
Ivysaur - Fair
Jigglypuff - Good
King Dedede - Great
Kirby - Good
Link - Good
Lucario - Good
Lucas - Fair
Luigi - Fair
Mario - Good
Marth - Fair
Meta Knight - Bad
Ness - Fair
Olimar - Fair (possibly the most annoying match to play, EVER)
Peach - Good
Pikachu - Fair
Pit - Fair
R.O.B. - Fair
Samus - Fair
Sheik - Bad
Snake - Bad
Sonic - Good
Squirtle - Good
Toon Link - Fair
Wario - Good
Wolf - Bad (Terrible is more like it. Wolf’s f-smash swallows any of olimar’s moves from outside Olimar’s throw range. What’s even worse though, is that blaster out-spams pikmin throw WHILE CUTTING THE PIKMIN OFF HIM! so essentially Olimar can’t attack him from a distance OR up-close)
Yoshi - Good
Zelda - Fair
Zero Suit Samus - Fair
I think Olimar would be top tier if it wasn’t for a few truly terrible matchups. Also, stage plays a BIG part in Olimar’s effectiveness because of his shitty shitty shitty terrible awful recovery.
…seriously.
^^^
More people need to start doing this.
Snake-Toon Link-Zelda-Wolf-Marth-Metaknight-Pit-(the rest)
imo
Why do you say Snake beats Toon Link? Just curious not really trying to say anything. I only tried snake once and didn’t like his speed but I also didn’t notice anything.
Snakes normals reach farther then they should. AAA and tilts are all really good. He’s also a heavy character so he’s tough to knock out. He can fight up close with his normals, or he can play hit-and run with his C4/mines. Also Nikita missile is a great edge guarder.
I’m not sure about whether he’s better then Toon Link or not, but those attributes definitely put him on the top tier fairly easily.
I would have to disagree. I guess I’ll trump it up to the Brawl festivities but there are clearly characters that are severely underpowered in this game to the point that a year from now the polarization will be closer to Marvel than anything.
Priorities are too distinct to the point where characters like Yoshi and Mario can barely set up an offense because their moves get eaten up by every character with a disjointed hit box or just disgusting high priority in general.
In previous Smash incarnations priority in moves were closer and could clash easily if both players had exact timing. However, in this game you could do a low priority move in advance and still have it eaten high priority attack done on the initial frames, eliminating the need for a high priority attack to at least time itself correctly to win. This makes it an uphill battle for any below average character
Jajaja Dude u seem like a good skilled player. but I have to disagree with you on sheik and have a sugestion for you, if you dont know anything about tier lists please dont coment. Yes sheik is a very good complex player so were Ganon, Link and Samus in Melee but nevertheless they didnt stand a chance to real top tiers like marth fox falco sheik (melee). Its the same with sheik here. She’s good but Marth spacing controls her easily, she can’t beat MK, she has a hard time with Olimar and IC rapes her. So do your homework first. Dont take me wrong or dont feel insulted but I’ve seen to many of your posts about sheik top double posts and all and I get frustrated by you kind of people.
Still I like your devotion and suggest to move to a better character. Maybe (snake)
if you wanna be good but not top tier whore cause I know people that hates using tops. Maybe you are one of them.
This goes to everyone here spaming G&W or PT, Zelda and Sonic are good. Im sorry but Im a competitive player and there’s a line where characters that cross this line doesnt stand a chance to win tournaments. Still this is a new game so who knows for sure. I really hope to all of you devoters to PLEASE prove me wrong cause I’ll really like to see more variety in this game. Dont want to see anothe MvC2 (Storm+ Magneto and any good assist … and if youre really good then you can use Sentinel as secon character otherwise. Storm or Magneto will rape you.
Tops for me:
MK
Marth
IC
Olimar
Diddy(his recovery is bad got to work on that)
Snake is good has a chance cause of traps but not top
PS: Emblem Lord You seem to have great knowleged about the game and seem a worthy oponnent. You play online?
Uhm for Bowser…VS…
Bowser - Fair (FINAL ATOMIC SHOWDOWN! ARF ARF!)
Captain Falcon - Good (Capt. May have gotten the nerf bat but he can still piss Bowser off pretty well…but this isn’t Melee anymore Mr.Falconcracks knuckles)
Charizard - Fair
Diddy Kong - Bad(bananas, peanuts, rabies flip, dash attack with no lag…Sorry Bowser)
Donkey Kong - Fair
Falco - Bad (you hear dat? Ain’t Santa. Its Falco. Delivering a wide array of bullshit. Chain throw, Laser Lock, RC to USmash, Dair spike, plus his laser shuts down any attempt you may try to use to get close)
Fox - Fair (Fox is quick, but Bowser SHOULDN’T have too much to fear until higher %s)
Game & Watch - Fair
Ganondorf - Fair
Ice Climbers - Bad(FAB gets its abuse use toned down and their Infi grab is very painful)
Ike - Fair (He outranges you and unlike most of the cast, can KO your ass at early %s. Besides, he fights for his friends I hear)
Ivysaur - Bad (Projectile, throw range, and comboability.)
Jigglypuff - Good/Fair(up for debate, Jiggs is light but that air game can follow Bowser off stage)
King Dedede - Fair/Bad(D3 seems to have all his bases covered. Waddles, Chain throw, annoying tilts, harder to kill. But so far no D3 has completely 100% shut me down)
Kirby - Fair
Link - Fair(Link’s projectiles will obvisously slow Bowser Down)
Lucario - ???/Fair? (I havn’t played VS a Lucario, so this match up is based on theory fighter. Lucario needs Damage, Bowser can dish out, but at such high damages…easier for bowser to KO)
Lucas - Fair (Has the tools to harass bowser, but lightweight makes it easier to KO)
Luigi - Bad(Luigi’s Fireball + his Air game + floatyness gives Bowser all kinds of hell)
Mario - Fair (One would think Bowser would have a better chance, but cape + Mario’s natural comboabilty WILL annoy the ever loving fuck out of you)
Marth - Fair? (need to play VS Marth more BUT I simply believe this is ONE match Marth doesn’t dominate completely)
Meta Knight - Bad (If the meta knight you’re facing lets you come back to the stage as Bowser, they should not be playing Meta Knight)
Ness - Fair(Ness can rack up damage quicker than Lucas IMO)
Peach - Fair/Bad ( Peach is still annoying in Brawl, her air game still has that kick and turnips and random weapons ahoy! Bowser needs a few good hits tis all)
Pikachu - Fair/Bad (Pikachu is quick. Has a projectile that travels along platforms. His )
Pikman & Olimar - Fair (Those thrown Pikmin and PILE damage on. And those Pikmin smashes and Airs are DEADLY. Bowser is gonna have to grow a pair if he plans on stopping the harassment of Pikmin)
Pit - Fair/Bad (so far only things in this match up that pisses Bowser off are arrows n the flight)
R.O.B. - Fair/Bad (same as pit, only Im aiming more at Bad match up here, ROBs air game is quite rape)
Samus - Bad (lol, Samus still makes Bowser unhappy! SPAMUS!)
Sheik - Fair/Bad (faster than Bowser but lacks that punch until more damage is built. Im aiming toward fair atm)
Snake - BAD (Snake owns Bowser. Solid Tilts, Basic AAA is good…and the projectiles…)
Sonic - Good/Fair (Why is this also called Fair? Simple. Not Sonic’s speed either. Its that his Airs and Basics…seem to have stupid priority)
Squirtle - Fair
Toon Link - Bad (Arrows, Bombs, Boomerang, priority air, and oh, good luck catching him)
Wario - Fair?
Wolf - Fair/Bad
Yoshi - Fair
Zelda - Bad (Din’s Fire. The rest of her, thats for shits n giggles. SICK air, Dtilt that has good trip chances, POWERFUL smashes.)
Zero Suit Samus - Fair
Good: 1
Good/Fair: 2
Fair: 18 some are questionable
Fair/Bad: 7 some questionable
Bad: 9
9 pot,
I did my homework and I know most of what are Sheik’s good and bad matchups and you sir are right on one matchup and wrong on others.
While MetaKnight does indeed beat Sheik, her matchup against Marth is even if not a little in Sheik’s favor and her high priority and long range aerials give her an advantage against Olimar.
Why are you frustrated by my posts? I am very knowledgeble about Melee and how the matchups in that game stacked up. Back at the swf forums I was the ONLY Ganon poster that said that Ganon would NEVER beat a good Fox that knew how to play against Ganon.
Brawl is in its infancy, however from what I’ve found Sheik has the edge over the majority of what the people consider top tier (Zelda, Pit, Snake, especially The Space Animals). I have yet to test Sheik vs Ice Climber, but that does not invalidate my previous findings of Sheik’s other matchups.
EDIT. Also I do not have any emotional attachment to any character whatsoever, if you are so inclined to believe. I used whatever character I felt comfortable with, but fully understanding their limitations.
Also Sheik has at least one glaring defect and that is she is very disadvantaged in walk-off stages especially Shadow Moses, which is the counterpick choice against Sheik.
I have deep attachments with most of my characters. :lol: If Toon Link were low tier I’d still choose him cause I like the character. And I will probably never play R.O.B., eventhough, I know what his strengths are; I just don’t like that he looks like that dumb robot from the old movies.
How 'bout we make a chart of all this?
Not a bad idea. I don’t want to search through each page for one character’s matchups .:tup:
For Metaknight:
(first number is meta, second is other character
Bowser - 7 - 3 (outspeeds, out prioritizes, edgeguards easily)
Captain Falcon - 7 - 3 (Faster, more priority, falcons terrible recovery really hurts in this fight)
Charizard - 6- 4 (speed and priority again, not much charizard can do)
Diddy Kong - 5 - 5
Donkey Kong - 6 - 4 (slow character, need I say more?)
Falco - 4.5 - 5.5 (Falco has a good projectile and gets his chain grab off easier than most characters on Meta, he can also kill meta easier than meta can kill him)
Fox - 5 - 5
Game & Watch - 5 - 5
Ganondorf - 7 - 3 (slow character, easily out prioritized)
Ice Climbers - 5 - 5
Ike - 6.5 - 3.5 (Metaknight easily can kill Ike at 30% with edge guarding, this match is really not in Ike’s favor)
Ivysaur - 5 - 5
Jigglypuff - 6- 4 (Metaknight is like a better jigglypuff)
King Dedede - 5 - 5
Kirby - 5.5 - 4.5 (same as jigglypuff, meta does everything kirby does but better)
Link - 5.5 - 4.5 (Link’s nerfs really don’t help him in this fight. Meta dominates this one)
Lucario - 6 - 4 (Metaknight can beat out all of lucario’s air game, and lucario is too slow on the ground to do much to meta outside of AAA)
Lucas - 4.5 - 5.5 (projectile spam and great KO moves make this one harder for metaknight than it is for lucas)
Luigi - 5 - 5
Mario - 5 - 5
Marth - 4.5 - 5.5 (Marth’s one of the few characters that can outrange meta, and can fight him easier than a couple of others)
Meta Knight - 5 - 5
Ness - 5.5 - 4.5
Olimar - 7 - 3 (Metaknight is easily Olimars counter character. Mach tornado beats ANY move involving a pikmin and meta’s disjointed hit boxes tear through any of olimars attacks. Plus meta can edgeguard him very easily)
Peach - 5.5 - 4.5
Pikachu - 5 - 5
Pit - 5 - 5
R.O.B. - 5 - 5
Samus - 5.5 - 4.5
Sheik - 5 - 5
Snake - 4.5 - 5.5 (Snake can zone meta and can KO him at 75%. This is a really dangerous fight for meta)
Sonic - 6 - 4 (Meta’s speed in attacks can easily counter the advantages sonic has, as well as having priority that beats out just about anything sonic can do)
Squirtle - 5 - 5
Toon Link - 4.5 - 5.5 (projectiles and a good disjointed hit box make this a difficult fight for meta)
Wario - 6 - 4 (Meta out ranges and out priortizes wario on just about everything)
Wolf - 5 - 5
Yoshi - 6 - 4 (Yoshi is just…bad)
Zelda - 5 - 5
Zero Suit Samus - 5 - 5