With all of these new lame out characters I see Morrigar in the back doing well or winning some tourneys. I’ma try and run Morrigar second so she can at least have an assist if Vergil dies early and then Dr.Doom anchoring for the comebacks. Morrigar is a completely better anchor than Haggar so that could make up for not giving the 2nd character an assist to deal with advance guards or help their mix up if the first character somehow dies.
There was definitely some more defensive/zoning based characters in Vanilla and new ones in Ultimate that were marred by the ease of rushdown into TOD’s. Now that that’s not as bad I can definitely see characters that can keep out for a long time while constantly building meter to utilize supers that shut down people’s assists being a big deal.
I’m just gonna do a screw around team that forces me to use Morrigan 2nd and build meter for Vergil and see how it goes. She seems fun to play and I’d rather have her 2nd to utilize both her assist and point play at the same time instead of going all out Morrigar.
Morrigan would have worked well with Phoenix in Vanilla if it wasn’t for the fact that Morrigan was basically balanced Phoenix and also completely meter hungry without XF2/3 with no scary assists. Forcing you to create a team with zero attacking assists and this game has way too much pushback on advance guards to not have some kind of lockdown assist.
hehe that was actually my team except I planned on running Morrigan on point, with vergil rising sun assist as my Anti-Air for options and Plasma beam for projectile ability from far covering my soul fist for added control, Finishing shower > maximum vergil should work fine. but this is just my small idea for my team for now
I dunno, she makes Karst’s bullshit team viable (holy mother of god, why was I not playig this bullshit for 8 months? -_- So sad it’s basically gone in Ultimate.).
Combining the change log with Dr Deelite’s hints, and a betterunderstanding of Engrish than most people we have:
Morrigan
j.H, j.S priority has been slightly increased. Larger hit boxes/smaller hurt boxes. Sweet.
Increased frame advantage after all her throws. You can now follow up all of her throws, with Shadow Servant or quick OTG assist like Samurai Edge.
Increased damage of Soul Fist. How much though? Are we up to the damage of Samurai Edge, or Ryu’s Hadouken?
Increased untechable time on a normal Soul Fist hit, but time decreases with combo length. Flight loops are now much, much easier, but hit stun decay actually effects Soul Fist now.
Added new move “Soul Drain.” Wow, they actually named it.
Decreased total frames for Flight. Flight has less start up. It seems most flight modes were made faster in fact.
Additional hits can be added to Finishing Shower through rapid buttons presses. Disappointed we didn;t also get mashable Darkness Illusion.
I still need to see more raw frame data, but well, if we pretend she doesn’t have dashes for anything outside of her tri-jump, and simply use flight to move like Sentinel, she might actually be slightly better than vanilla. She should certainly still be good enough to be the meter assist whore in the back, provided you can find a team that wants/needs the assist.**
I dunno why, but my gut tells me that Darkness Illusion will be mashable, but it’s just not listed. It just seems like one of those hypers that would be a natural fit to mashing.
With the reduction to raw meter gain and increased emphasis on zoning, I have a feeling Morrigan will be a welcome addition to a lot of lameout teams, especially with a lot of the safer rush options being nerfed or removed in some way. With the way Capcom loves to cocktease fans with accurate change logs… who knows. We may be pleasantly surprised.
I don’t care. As long as Morrigan can still actually fight in Ultimate is still good in my book.
To me, she looks like she got slightly buff. But only slightly. I hate how people are like “OMFG! Morrigan is no good. She sucks. Air-dash nerf=death of her.” blah, blah, blah. Bitch and moan.
Obviously, if you’re not a Morrigan fan then why bother posting on here if you’re just gonna say how bad she is? To me, it sounds like you’re no better than a tier-whore. If you love a character that much, you should stick with him or her no matter what rather before deciding throwing in the towel.
I dominated with her in MVC2. I’ll do it again in UMVC3. MVC3? Didn’t really have enough time (but enough to know what she’s all about) since I have like… 2 jobs and getting ready for school. :l
More frame advantage after her throws? I hope that includes her command grab. If that’s the case, that’s a definitely a buff for her. Especially since she has LARGE range for her L. Command throw.
Mashable Finshing Shower sounds good in my book since that was her weakest level 1 hyper.
The decreased frame rate for flight shouldn’t be THAT big of a deal since like Nooneyouknow said: *Flight has less start up. It seems most flight modes were made faster in fact. *
As long she can still fireball>flight fireball>flight cancel in a sexy pace like she did in her eariler build but… Flight loops are now much, much easier, but hit stun decay actually effects Soul Fist now.
So maybe… one fireball and try to rush w/ assist till you get in for a combo? I don’t know… I wish my stick wasn’t broken atm (which I’ll get fixed soon)
Her fireball has buff but how much? To me, her fireball did decent damage in vanilla. So in Ultimate, it’ll be better (?) I hope since this will definitely will boost her Astral Vision rape game.
But her j. H and j. S slightly increased sounds sexy enough.
So makes me wonder how I’m suppose to play her effectively. Either way, training mode will tell the truth on how well she can do.
As long she’s a MUCH better anchor than Haggar and Hsien-ko.
personally i think morrigan had some untapped potential in mvc3. she just looks to have gotten better. her meter assist will DEFINITELY go up in umvc3 since if everything else is the same, her meter assist will now be REALLY good:
most characters got there meter gain nerfed, as well as long combo ability, plus a meter nerf in general of 10% less meter on all moves… if morrigans harmonizer stays the same (same startup and recovery and same meter gained for a use) it will be a welcome addition on MANY teams. especially if those teams are lame based. lame doesnt build a huge amount of meter cause wiffed attacks dont build meter… well not anymore. i look for morrigan to go up ATLEAST a tier cause of shadow servant from ground throw (command throw as well?) and how much harmonizer will be needed with meter nerfs.
Soul Fist was one of the weakest single hit projectiles in MvC3 at 70k. It’s really pathetic outside of Astral Vision, which I’m pretty sure is why it was so weak. Anyway, the Flight and Soul Fist changes should make her damaging combos much easier.
She’s horribly untapped in MvC3. But then I’ve been saying that for months.
The only reason I’m not dancing for joy right now with this change list, partial as it is, is because the air dash nerf was an almost unbelievably bad blow against her. I actually would have been happier if they had just removed her “ground” dashes from the game, they now exist solely as a newb trap, or to get you killed when you flub a command.
I’m also probably less hype than I should be because I finally stole Karst’s Phoenix/Dorm/Morrigan team, and it’s like…amazingly dirty, and great fun. My Favorite team ever. And 100% non-viable in that order in Ultimate, if it’s even workable at all.
I honestly wish they had different animations. I’m so tired of hearing every stream commentator state she landed a command grab when she gets an air throw. Just shows how much ignorance of the character is still out there.
That note was pretty universal, and only 1-2 more frames of down time would be needed to make her forward throw identical to her back throw, and not much more than that for Vector Drain/air throws to combo to Shadow Servant anywhere as well. I hope it’s enough time to OTG with Wesker’s assist though, and not just to follow up with Shadow Servant.
Random side note: Aesthetically, I actually prefer using her flight mode to move about. It’s just so much more visually appealing than her her old wing rocket boosters are on the 3d model. I just really hate having to always unfly to have any defense at all.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for anyone who has been a long time Morrigan player to be frustrated right now, even if we won’t know for sure what changes are in store for her until Ultimate actually drops. Some of the people here are tournament players that are also fans of Morrigan, who would like to actually be able to win with her at some point, but the competition is so stacked against her, and just going from the changelog alone the future doesn’t really look all that great. Combined with the airdash nerf and it’s just… ugh.
Personally, I’ve only been to a few local tournaments and events in the Sacramento area, and when I debut Team Darkstalkers, people typically go nuts because no one ever plays them. However, there’s a reason no one ever plays them, because in a high pressure tournament environment you need the most bang for your buck, and high-execution, low damage characters with limited tools and below average health don’t really leave a lot of room for errors. The best example of this is Viscant winning EVO with the most basic of strategies and day one BNBs on his Wesker/Haggar/Phoenix team.
There’s only so much abuse one can take until the drive to win overtakes the loyalty to a specific character. Unless you are able to outplay your opponent and somehow win out against the onslaught of cheap bullshit, using Morrigan on point versus top tier characters is basically tournament suicide. At that point it’s not even really about being a tier whore, it’s about having only two options left available to you - change your team or don’t bother showing up.
But I guess we’ll just have to wait and see when Ultimate drops to see how much her game has really changed.
THIS. Honestly I think you probably hate Morrigan more than like Morrigan if you play her on point. It’s like trying to play Phoenix or Haggar on point and expecting to win Evo. It’s a team based game and if you expect to put all Darkstalkers on a team and make an Evo winning tournament team…well you’re not really playing MVC3 the way you should be. The game is about team structure (well minus Phoenix but that will change in a month). What’s limiting you with Morrigan is your direct focus on making Morrigan out to be something she is not on teams. This isn’t SF…this is MVC3. You have to find the right spot on your team for the character you play. That’s the only way you will truly end up liking any character.
I know this of course playing X-23 who’s a very picky, team specific character. You can only really unlock her potential with specific assists and putting her in specific spots on the team (preferably first or second). Though it’s the discovery of finding her best spot and making her work with other characters that makes her the most interesting to play (outside of her general technical fast paced play style).
I honestly just don’t understand why anyone would play Morrigan on point. It was a stupid idea in Vanilla and will still be stupid in Ultimate. You’re not thinking about Morrigan at that point on a team and just worried about what cute combos you can do with her in a sub optimal position on the team when you account for her point and assist options overall.
I understand people like to play characters on point because of pure love for the character but that’s not how MVC3 works. If everyone was good on point the game would be boring and everyone would be like Wesker and Wolverine and all out for themselves. At that point the game might as well be turn based 3 on 3.
In MVC3 liking a character too much is one of the biggest hurdles you can create for yourself in the game and it seems some Morrigan players especially create this artificial hurdle for themselves with the character. At absolute worst she’s a Haggar (an assist that will still control the game) with a completely better solo game as anchor. Plenty of characters still wishing they could at least do that.
You’ll learn to like Morrigan more if you like her less basically. I learned that with X-23 also. The more you flesh out the rest of your team the better she works for your team.
I personally use her as anchor because of her meter assist. More meter=more of an advantage. Especially if her sancho is now Vergil and not Dante. (Hi. Do you like Vergil’s hypers? I hope you love it ALOT more with Morrigan around. )
Plus her x-factor level 3+astral vision is no joke. She can set up unblockables by herself and be able to destroy a whole team. (I’ve actually done it myself and I was surprised she was able to do so.)
There is a reason why she’s a queen and a reason why I save her for last. :rolleyes:
Just to clear things up - when I say “on point” I mean actually fighting with her, regardless of lineup position.
I use her on anchor as well, whoring meter the entire match, and in XF3 she is deadly. But really, most of the cast is too, and after awhile that shit runs out, and all you’ve got left is what tools she comes with and no assists to back you up.
And I understand the concept of “team building” in MvC3 is important, and I’d be fine with it if it held true for all team compositions, but it doesn’t. You can build a team of 3 derp level characters who are all amazing on point and still clean house, and never have to worry about being left with an ‘assist tier’ character as your last man standing. How many times have we seen teams of Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma just run through people like it’s nothing? Or what about characters who are good at everything, and come with amazing assists, like Dr. Doom and Taskmaster? Is it really so much to ask that Morrigan be given something to make her point game outside of X-Factor a bit more viable, considering what the top tier characters already have going for them?
There comes a point where you have to admit to yourself that Capcom just isn’t distributing the love evenly. Especially if you take into account that they themselves said that they don’t want any character to be simply there for their assist.
Edit: @Ninja Minaj - Have to admit that the Morrigan XF3 destruction is extremely satisfying.
Why would all team compositions work as strong built teams? That defies logic within the game and in general. Random select all is not going to get you top 3 major winning teams (especially with randomly chosen assists). Just can’t happen.
Capcom says a lot of things so you have to take what they say with a grain of salt. No matter what fighting game it’s still the players that ultimately decides what happens in the game…not Capcom and that’s what has always made fighting games truly fun. Long as you give everybody something powerful you just kinda have to leave it up to the players at that point. SFIV went about the route of making sure nobody is too good but you never get anything interesting out of that. MVC3 is a game where everybody has something cheap or generally powerful in a game where characters are dependent on other characters. Meaning anything can happen with a creative player and team.
There are strong point character teams but it’s not like MVC2 didn’t have it’s share of strong point character teams also. Generally a good rendition of Marvel team wise is a game where there’s a good variation of teams that have strong point characters and teams that have more specified assist based teams. It creates an interesting comparison of strategies as far as what is truly better. A team of just super heroes out for themselves or a team where you base your gameplay around specific assists and point character team ups that can control the game.
Funny enough the best teams in MVC2 are teams that consist of anchor characters that people would cry about in threads with the same “Psylocke and Captain Commando are so bad on point…you could just put Sentinel or Magneto in the back instead wah wah”.
I guess what I meant to say was something more along the lines of… an ideal team would be made of X point character, Y support character, and Z anchor character. But the game doesn’t work that way. You can have X point character Y point character and Z point character, who also happen to come with assists that make their teammates even better. Like Wolverine/Wesker/Doom or something. All 3 are strong on point, all 3 have useful assists (with the possible exception of Wolverine) and all of them make each other better.
When you have a group of characters amongst the cast who can literally do it all, or come with strengths that more than make up for their minor weaknesses, then the concept of using the entire roster for team building goes out the window, because you might as well just use that handful of characters.
This is pretty much the reason why I feel everyone needs to be improved in some way to have a fighting chance, because you’ve got characters out there that literally just run over everyone and come with useful assists, and no one in the game has an assist strong enough to make up for their being ass on point. That last point being especially true once Ultimate comes out.
I run Morrigan on point because, personally I don’t like morrigan as an anchor because:
1.when my 1st character dies, the 2nd character will ONLY have Morrigan assist, and I want something that will actually aid me to getting in or doing more damage in combos, which is why I personally don’t really care for dark harmonizer assist, its nice but everyone has their preference, I don’t like the idea of tapping assist 4 times for only one meter when I could have some other assist aid me against my opponent or actually get a hit for a combo and build that meter for me, not saying I wont have that assist selected for her but that is also why I keep her as my point because I don’t want that being my anchor character with it.
2.I think she has potential with assist covering her
3.she can run a decent keep away game and mobility in the air
4.Running her last as an anchor I guess could be nice cause of X-factor + Astral vision, but some cases when its down to the last character, people are trying to chip each other out, astral vision, Soul fist spam is nice, but that’ll die to a beam character, but her mobility in x-factor hella makes up for it and can be confusing especially with astral vision so I wouldn’t mind her as my anchor actually if I wasn’t too concerned with the rest of my team as well, not saying Morrigan is a bad anchor, but if its down to her then she works as well.
5.Morrigan as second… mm I’m not too sure I think that’s fine depending on team but for mine I think she’ll sit better as a point.
I slap Wolverine, Akuma, Wesker and Dr. Doom just for fun. Especially Dr. Doom. He’s just a big ol’ target to me. Wesker however, is the only problem because of his x-factor bullet bs plus his Rhino Charge x_x. But that’s being nerfed in UMVC3 but his teleports can be an issue (or any teleporters). Akuma is like a mirror match since they are both shotos except… one can fly and the other cannot. But Akuma is stronger… but Morrigan has better health. So… it’s pretty almost even. Almost.
TaskMaster? Eh… his arrows are special ed. Hawkeye would be more of a problem to Morrigan than him since he excels in zoning.
Wolverine, without his gross vanilla dive kick, Morrigan can zone him all day any day with little or no effort.
The only thing I can see is that Wolverine/Akuma are no longer BFF’s so that’s no longer an issue anymore. (THANK GOD!)
Of course Morrigan will have her bad match-ups like everyone else. The only opponents I can see she’ll have a problem with is Dorm, Ghost Rider, Hawkeye, Dr. Strange and sometimes Trish.
She’ll always be outzoned by those 4.
Those types of teams you’re talking about never made up the absolute best teams in MVC2 or MVC3 and most likely won’t in UVMC3.
For your last sentence…Haggar/Tron assist based teams (whether 2nd or 3rd) have been pretty much dominant in tourneys lately.
Wolverine and Akuma will still be BFF’s because Wolverine got nerfed to the point where he’ll need Akuma just to get a chance to get in. Before Akuma was the extra power up you threw out after you ran in with invincible game winning berserker charge…now that that’s gone Wolverine has no invincible option to get in and will be reliant on akuma calls just to maybe get in. Not looking good.
